Live round in the chamber

[Guns in Australia]

I'm a supporter of CCW and an Australian who cannot carry.

What I don't understand is why people carry with a round in the chamber. It only takes a second to rack the slide, a lot less time to aim and draw, I just don't understand why people feel the need to do that.

I'd rather not risk the chance of accidental discharge. My thoughts only. Happy to be proven wrong.

 

[The_Outlaw]

I'm a supporter of CCW and an Australian who cannot carry.

What I don't understand is why people carry with a round in the chamber. It only takes a second to rack the slide, a lot less time to aim and draw, I just don't understand why people feel the need to do that.

I'd rather not risk the chance of accidental discharge. My thoughts only. Happy to be proven wrong.

This training video demonstrates the utter importance of having a round in the chamber and proper distance.
The two key elements needed to survive a violent attack....

Happy to have proven you wrong mate...Cheers. =-)

 

[~OtisM~]

Sr40 is gonna call u a troll.

 

[Deanimator]

I'm a supporter of CCW and an Australian who cannot carry.

What I don't understand is why people carry with a round in the chamber. It only takes a second to rack the slide, a lot less time to aim and draw, I just don't understand why people feel the need to do that.

I'd rather not risk the chance of accidental discharge. My thoughts only. Happy to be proven wrong.

Not too long ago in Dayton, Ohio, a guy was pumping gas at a gas station.

For ABSOLUTELY no reason at all, two drug addled imbeciles decided to jump him. They hit him simultaneously from front and rear.

He managed to hold one off with one hand and draw, fire and hit the other twice with the other hand. The unwounded accomplice fled.

By the victim's own admission, had he not had a round in the chamber, he would probably have been overcome by his assailants, who would then have had in their possession, a loaded firearm.

It is the HEIGHT of foolishness to assume that an assailant presenting you with imminent threat to life and limb (the ONLY reason to use a firearm in defense of self or others, at least in most places) is going to LET you chamber a round.

A deadly force situation is dicey enough when everything goes RIGHT. Why introduce additional points of potential failure?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Sr40 is gonna call u a troll.

~OtisM~ is going to make yet another ignorant post adding nothing of intelligence to the discussion.

 

[SR40c]

I'm a supporter of CCW and an Australian who cannot carry.

What I don't understand is why people carry with a round in the chamber. It only takes a second to rack the slide, a lot less time to aim and draw, I just don't understand why people feel the need to do that.

I'd rather not risk the chance of accidental discharge. My thoughts only. Happy to be proven wrong.

Obviously you haven't handled a semi-auto pistol before. That one second "could" be the difference. If your pistol jams when trying to rack the slide, "it will be the difference". While not having any actual statistics, I would guess that the odds are several hundred to one in favor of a jam during the racking process compared to a light strike or other malfunction of an already chambered live round. So actually, I cannot understand why anyone WOULD NOT have a round chambered.

The risk of accidental discharge is even less of a possibility. Consider yourself proven wrong. :laugh:

 

[NavyLCDR]

I'm a supporter of CCW and an Australian who cannot carry.

What I don't understand is why people carry with a round in the chamber. It only takes a second to rack the slide, a lot less time to aim and draw, I just don't understand why people feel the need to do that.

I'd rather not risk the chance of accidental discharge. My thoughts only. Happy to be proven wrong.

How many negligent discharges happen compared to the millions of people who carry a round in the chamber every day? Let us conservatively say that 1/2 of 1% of the American population carries a gun with chambered round every day. That is 1,500,000 guns with a round in the chamber every day. Now.... how many accidental discharges do you hear about? Let's there are even 10 every day. Have you ever heard of 10 accidental discharges every day? I haven't. But.... that is still 1,490,990 guns that did not have an accidental discharge that day.

Now, lets multiply that out per year - that is 3,650 accidental discharges in a year. Compared to 547,496,350 accumulated days of guns being carried without "accident". Hmmm......

Now, you add on top of that, it is extremely rare that an a true accidental discharge happens. It is extremely rare that a modern firearm discharges only because there is a round in the chamber. 99% of unintentional discharge of a firearm occurs because someone pulled the trigger. And the vast majority of those occurs when someone is intentionally handling the firearm during loading, unloading or when they "knew" the gun was unloaded. I reduce my risk of "accidental" discharge greatly by loading my gun in the relative safety of my home, when I have the time to take all precautions, when I have no outside influences distracting me, when I have time to second check the proper loading of the firearm, and when I am under no stress or distraction when I carefully place that firearm in the holster and leave it there, fully loaded, for weeks at a time.

So, compare the REAL LIFE odds of an "accidental" discharge compared to the consequences if something goes wrong in the situation where I need to use my gun for self defense and I am not able to successfully chamber a round under the extreme circumstances of my life or my family's lives being in immediate danger.

Fear of "accidental discharge" comes from the anti-gun propaganda that anti-gun groups and governments cram down the public's throats, perpetuated by a lack of understanding of modern firearm handling and what actually causes an "accidental" discharge.

 

[WingRider]

~The_Outlaw~ Great video. It confirms one of my greatest fears: Elevators. I'm now convinced that not only should one be armed but should also be trained in hand-to-hand combat techniques.

Oh, and FWIW: I carry one in chamber of my SR9C. Safety on. My holsters cover the safety mechanism so I don't worry too much about my clothing deactivating the safety.

 

[Guns in Australia]

That's a great video, but how many confrontations involve someone holding a knife threatening to attack you from over 21 feet away? !!!!

As a civilian, if someone was trying to mug me at knife point, i'd give him my wallet, let him walk away, then shoot the fucker!!!

 

[Guns in Australia]

How many negligent discharges happen compared to the millions of people who carry a round in the chamber every day? Let us conservatively say that 1/2 of 1% of the American population carries a gun with chambered round every day. That is 1,500,000 guns with a round in the chamber every day. Now.... how many accidental discharges do you hear about? Let's there are even 10 every day. Have you ever heard of 10 accidental discharges every day? I haven't. But.... that is still 1,490,990 guns that did not have an accidental discharge that day.

Now, lets multiply that out per year - that is 3,650 accidental discharges in a year. Compared to 547,496,350 accumulated days of guns being carried without "accident". Hmmm......

Now, you add on top of that, it is extremely rare that an a true accidental discharge happens. It is extremely rare that a modern firearm discharges only because there is a round in the chamber. 99% of unintentional discharge of a firearm occurs because someone pulled the trigger. And the vast majority of those occurs when someone is intentionally handling the firearm during loading, unloading or when they "knew" the gun was unloaded. I reduce my risk of "accidental" discharge greatly by loading my gun in the relative safety of my home, when I have the time to take all precautions, when I have no outside influences distracting me, when I have time to second check the proper loading of the firearm, and when I am under no stress or distraction when I carefully place that firearm in the holster and leave it there, fully loaded, for weeks at a time.

So, compare the REAL LIFE odds of an "accidental" discharge compared to the consequences if something goes wrong in the situation where I need to use my gun for self defense and I am not able to successfully chamber a round under the extreme circumstances of my life or my family's lives being in immediate danger.

Fear of "accidental discharge" comes from the anti-gun propaganda that anti-gun groups and governments cram down the public's throats, perpetuated by a lack of understanding of modern firearm handling and what actually causes an "accidental" discharge.

Thanks for taking the time to post what you did. I'm not anti gun at all. I'm just pro safety. Looking at the numbers you speak of, you have convinced me an AD is highly unlikely. I'm just concerned because I have seen a few too many AD's with rifles in various situations that had made me suspicious, especially light triggers and a bit of a bump that sets them off.

I still feel if I were to C&C in the US that I would not have a round in the chamber. If that is the cause of my demise, than so be it.

 

[NavyLCDR]

That's a great video, but how many confrontations involve someone holding a knife threatening to attack you from over 21 feet away? !!!!

As a civilian, if someone was trying to mug me at knife point, i'd give him my wallet, let him walk away, then shoot the fucker!!!

And spend the rest of your life in prison.

Ok.. i'll retract the previous troll accusation and give the benefit of the doubt: Just unfamiliar with firearms and principles of self-defense.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I am curious as to how the element of surprise works for a person carrying an unloaded firearm concealed...

In the heat of the moment do you with all stealth and speed produce your gun like a flash of lightning, point it at the bad guy and yell, "SURPRISE! It's really not loaded!"

 

[NavyLCDR]

I'm just concerned because I have seen a few too many AD's with rifles in various situations that had made me suspicious, especially light triggers and a bit of a bump that sets them off.

Completely different scenario than carrying a modern handgun in a holster. More proof that you are a victim of propaganda and ignorance. That is like saying you should not fly in an airplane because of the number of automobile accidents every year.

 

[jg1967]

I'm a supporter of CCW and an Australian who cannot carry.

What I don't understand is why people carry with a round in the chamber. It only takes a second to rack the slide, a lot less time to aim and draw, I just don't understand why people feel the need to do that.

I'd rather not risk the chance of accidental discharge. My thoughts only. Happy to be proven wrong.

Friend, this has been debated to Death a million times over ;-)

Every other week somebody pops up here with some fantastic scenario in which NOT having a round in the chamber will save millions of lives and utterly refuses to acknowledge the simple fact that if it really was such a great idea all police agencies would do it. They don't. You may not have that second to rack the slide, you may not have that hand available to rack that slide, you may muck it up and not chamber a round, your hand may slip off (some slides are hard to grip). Why take the chances?

There are also some people that claim they won't wear seat belts becaue they might one day drive into a lake, get tangled in the belt and consequently drown. Aside of avoiding lakes or driving better I usually suggest to them to simply carry a rescue knife.

This question is really about probabilities and simply put the probability that not having a round chambered will be beneficial over having one in the pipe is about a million to one. Any disadvantages of having a round in the chamber are easily addressed if you properly handle the gun which you ought to be doing in any case.

Not meaning to diss you, just saying ;-)

 

[Billy_B]

The only AD that I have ever heard of occurred when someone was playing with their weapon, or when they had modified their weapon themself improperly, or when they had become distracted while cleaning their weapon. I have seen rounds hang time at the range but that is different.

 

[Deanimator]

That's a great video, but how many confrontations involve someone holding a knife threatening to attack you from over 21 feet away? !!!!

As a civilian, if someone was trying to mug me at knife point, i'd give him my wallet, let him walk away, then shoot the fucker!!!

In the United States, that's called "murder", "manslaughter" if you're lucky.

The ONLY legal reason here in Ohio to shoot somebody is because you, or another are in reasonable, imminent fear of death or great bodily harm from an unlawful attack.

I have NO legal duty (and no sane reason) to presume that when you threaten me with a deadly weapon, your intentions are anything other than what they appear on the face of things. If you pull a knife on me, I assume that you mean to use it. That gives me all of the justification I need to shoot, beat or immolate you. And that's EXACTLY what I intend to do. If you don't want to get shot... or set on fire, don't put me in immediate, credible fear of life and limb.

Deadly force is deadly force. Knife, gun, cricket bat, it's all the same. If you put me in immediate fear of life and limb with it, I have the legal right to SHOOT you. That right disappears when you are no longer a threat, be it either because you've walked away with my property, fled at the sight of my firearm or because I shot you and you are incapacitated on the ground.

 

[phone man]

A gun carried without a round in the chamber just becomes a very expensive hammer.....gotta beat them to death with it then and takes MUCH more effort that just pulling the trigger....not to mention the clean up of the firearm takes a LOT longer to remove the blood and hair from all the internal parts....

 

[Treo]

Sr40 is gonna call u a troll.

Treo is too.......

 

[jg1967]

That's a great video, but how many confrontations involve someone holding a knife threatening to attack you from over 21 feet away? !!!!

As a civilian, if someone was trying to mug me at knife point, i'd give him my wallet, let him walk away, then shoot the fucker!!!

I doubt that would be very advisable, not even in down under ;-)

And you're assuming or hoping that just by giving the perp your stuff the confrontation is over. That's very optimistic and might end up with you getting stabbed to Death anyway.

 

[Left Coast Conservative]

Cops Carry in Condition 1

I'm a supporter of CCW and an Australian who cannot carry.

What I don't understand is why people carry with a round in the chamber. It only takes a second to rack the slide, a lot less time to aim and draw, I just don't understand why people feel the need to do that.

I'd rather not risk the chance of accidental discharge. My thoughts only. Happy to be proven wrong.

Cops carry in Condition 1, and if that is not a good enough reason for a citizen to do so, I don't know what would be. Can anyone cited a police force anywhere in the world that does not carry in Condition 1?

But let me ask the OP something: what would be the cause of this accidental discharge that you fear so much? And before you answer, let us define our terms:

Accidental Discharge: a firearm firing unintentionally when handled in a safe manner, accidentally dropped, or through mechanical failure of the firearm.

Negligent Discharge: a firearm firing as a result of unsafe or incompetent handling by a person.

I believe that the vast majority of so-called "accidental discharges" are in reality "negligent discharges". The only case of a truly accidental discharge I can think of happened as a result of the leather on a mans holster becoming soft enough use use and age to allow a fold in the leather to enter the trigger guard and press the trigger. The gun in question had a trigger-actuated safety like a Glock or an M&P. Even that might be somewhat negligent because equipment maintenance is part of safe gun handling for concealed carriers.


We all have seen the many instances of "torture tests" that show various handguns not firing even after intense abuse. I do not think ANY modern handgun will fire if dropped from ordinary holster heights, leaving only mechanical failure as a potential cause. I invite everyone to cite examples of this assertion being incorrect.

So, let me state the one immutable law of gun safety: "If a gun fires, it is because someone put their finger on the trigger and pressed."

So, OP, if you are afraid of an accidental discharge, is it possibly because you have not trained sufficiently to develop trigger finger discipline? If that is the case, then you are nowhere near well trained enough to carry a firearm in public. Or is that you simply do not understand firearms enough to realize that the ultimate safety is the one between ones ears, not any mechanism on the gun? If so, then you are not well trained enough to carry a firearm in public.

Get more training, if you can in Australia, and come back to tell us what you think then.