Live in Reality

C

cluznar

New member
Gun owners constantly argue over calibers. Far as I'm concerned there is only one caliber that is almost useless, that is the .25 acp. People seem to think that bad guys are tougher than wild hogs to bring down when they are actually very easy to stop. The human body does not like ANY foreign object to enter it with brutal force. So lets stop trying to kid people that some bullet calibers are useless. Everyone keeps saying I would not want to take a shot from a .22LR pistol, yet they believe that criminals will laugh at you if shot with one. NO criminal wants to be shot any more than you do. Any bullet entering your body is doing damage.
If that .22 round hits your heart or brain you are gone. So lets just realize that shot placement is where it's at. If you put 5 quick shots in center mass with a .22 you are doing a lot of damage. If you put 1 or 2 shots in center mass from any larger caliber there is also a lot of damage happening.

Sure there are those 2% of times where people take rounds which would seemingly bring them down and they keep fighting. But the majority of time, you put rounds in center mass and they are stopped.

So use what ever caliber you want, but keep in mind that any bullet can kill you with the right shot placement.


:triniti:
 
I would go so far as to say in most situations just shooting at them even if you don't hit them will make them go the other way.
 
My choice to not carry a .22 is rooted in my experience with the reliability of the cartridge. I do not want to take the chance of having a FTF, FTE, FTC. Even with reputable ammunition. Ever since the passage of the ridiculous legislation here in CT, my main carry caliber has been and will remain .45ACP.
 
I follow a 4 step approach:
First, I point my fist at them pretending it's a gun and say, "Stop, or I'll shoot." If that doesn't work ...
Second, I pull my single-shot 22 short and shoot into the ground. If they keep coming ...
Third, I flash my .38 J-frame stainless gleaming BUG at them. And finally ...
Fourth, I burn them down with double or triple taps of 200 grain +P from my G30.

Actually, if the truth be known, I generally skip steps 1 through 3.

Most information on this forum is good to consider, some of the information will get you killed. Yes, definitely live in reality.
 
effectiveness of the round and shot placement accuracy plays the big part. The smaller caliber of a .22 is therefore more critical in accuracy, most of which will be compromised under stress. Damage with larger calibers will compensate for the most part and therefore is preferable for any self defense use.
 
cluznar said:
Gun owners constantly argue over calibers. Far as I'm concerned there is only one caliber that is almost useless, that is the .25 acp. People seem to think that bad guys are tougher than wild hogs to bring down when they are actually very easy to stop. The human body does not like ANY foreign object to enter it with brutal force. So lets stop trying to kid people that some bullet calibers are useless. Everyone keeps saying I would not want to take a shot from a .22LR pistol, yet they believe that criminals will laugh at you if shot with one. NO criminal wants to be shot any more than you do. Any bullet entering your body is doing damage.
If that .22 round hits your heart or brain you are gone. So lets just realize that shot placement is where it's at. If you put 5 quick shots in center mass with a .22 you are doing a lot of damage. If you put 1 or 2 shots in center mass from any larger caliber there is also a lot of damage happening.

Sure there are those 2% of times where people take rounds which would seemingly bring them down and they keep fighting. But the majority of time, you put rounds in center mass and they are stopped.

So use what ever caliber you want, but keep in mind that any bullet can kill you with the right shot placement.


:triniti:
Click to expand...

Alright, I'll agree that a .22 can kill ya. You'll be no more dead from a bigger caliber. That's not the issue with caliber selection.

First off, has the OP been IN a gunfight? I personally have not, but I have spoken to several people that HAVE, including the inventor of ballistics gelatin. The point of a defensive weapon is NOT to kill the target. Everyone I think can pretty well agree on that. If they happen to die in the process, that's too bad for them. The idea of a defensive shoot is to STOP the bad guy from being a threat. In this frame of mind, you would shoot only until the threat has stopped. I will contest to you, after having spoken to multiple people who have been literally shot by a .22, that a .22 is insufficient for this purpose. In fact, one could argue that by using a .22, your chances of killing the target before you stop the target are greater.

You also have to realize that in a gun fight, every SECOND that the attacker is not stopped, even if they are a dead man walking, is another opportunity they have to take you with them. I've heard of people getting shot in the head, through the BRAIN, with a pistol caliber, and they continue to fight. A .22 is even more likely to have this happen. So, fine... if you're a hit man, go ahead and use .22s, you only need to kill them after all. But if you're more concerned with STOPPING them, use one of the 4 major auto cartridges (9, 40, 45, 357sig) with a decent hollow point bullet. Chances are better that you'll both live. With a .22, there's a good chance he'll kill you long after you've killed him.
 
I read an interesting article (I will look for it to post a link) that spoke of the "last thirty seconds".
During a gun fight, with the adrenaline dump, people have been shot and continued to fight.
There are accounts of people shot in the heart that have had their "last thirty seconds" to do damage to you.
Paladin Press had put out a video that covered this subject. Some of the examples used were quite sobering.
Your blood still contains oxygen as well as your organs that combined with adrenalin, would allow to continue for those magic "last thirty seconds".
It happened with the FBI Miami shootout.


Sent from behind enemy lines.
 
in the wise words of one of my SD instructors, don't be bashful, keep shooting until he stops being a threat.
which brings us into the world of these idiot mag limits. but that's for another thread
 
Shoot until the threat is stopped. Doesn't matter if its a whole mag of .22LR or .45ACP. I can tell you from training, I can dump a whole mag of .22LR in the heart shadow or head of my target quicker than my .45 (my 9mm is somewhere in between). I believe there is some validity to the "bigger hole" argument, but I also put some credence into "a lot of small holes equals a big hole." Carry what you are comfortable, accurate, and reliable with.
 
BUmmedic said:
I believe there is some validity to the "bigger hole" argument, but I also put some credence into "a lot of small holes equals a big hole." Carry what you are comfortable, accurate, and reliable with.
Click to expand...

we can discuss the fallacy of tight groupings, when trying to stop an attack, well placed and spread out holes will cause a faster loss of blood which will take the threat out of the fight faster
 
Kalamity023 said:
My choice to not carry a .22 is rooted in my experience with the reliability of the cartridge. I do not want to take the chance of having a FTF, FTE, FTC. Even with reputable ammunition. Ever since the passage of the ridiculous legislation here in CT, my main carry caliber has been and will remain .45ACP.
Click to expand...

My main carry caliber also. Love that slow moving, hard hitting hollow point .45.
 
IF I got to throw lead, I want the biggest chunks I can throw. Ya'all throw want you want. It's your life, do as you see fit. Me, 45ACP-Cocked & Locked. When the adrenaline is pumping and the BG is firing back. I'd sooner take large chunks out, missing center mass, then possibly missing with a small caliber.
 
Any caliber is better than no caliber. My current choices are .380 and 9mm, because I shoot them pretty well, ammo is relatively inexpensive, and the physical size & weight of my carry weapons means that I will have them on me instead of leaving them at the house. With that said, I may eventually venture in to a .45 ACP later on for the shock effect. I read in an FBI article (of which I do not currently have a link, nor do I want to search for it right now) that one of the biggest effects in using your gun to stop a threat is the attacker's mind set. In other words, "oh crap, I've been shot" is a huge factor in whether or not the attack is stopped. Likewise, when the attacker does not realize he's been shot, the attack may continue. And the attacker may or may not realize he's been shot whether it is from a .45 or a .22. Anyway, the OP is posting about reality, and the reality is the first sentance in my post.
 
Best point so far: If you are carrying for self defense, carry the gun and caliber with which you practice and are most comfortable getting your first and each subsequent shot on target. A big hole in the wall will not stop the BG...ever, and I would not count on the scare factor stopping an attack. Just my $0.02, though.


BUmmedic said:
Shoot until the threat is stopped. Doesn't matter if its a whole mag of .22LR or .45ACP. I can tell you from training, I can dump a whole mag of .22LR in the heart shadow or head of my target quicker than my .45 (my 9mm is somewhere in between). I believe there is some validity to the "bigger hole" argument, but I also put some credence into "a lot of small holes equals a big hole." Carry what you are comfortable, accurate, and reliable with.
Click to expand...
 
Y'all do realize that you are replying to an OP by a poster who is completely cluzless, right? For any newcomers who don't know his posting history (or "histrionics" might be a better word), or old-timers who might've just missed it, you can learn about this anti-gun troll here, and in a follow-up here. If either of those posts seem overly-harsh, I suggest you click on his nick and select "View Forum Posts" and scrutinize his persona on this forum to see if you think, like I do, that his only intention here is to foment conflict and try to be "subtle" about his wish to ban "assault rifles," limit magazine capacity and create a full-on registration scheme through the rubric of "universal background checks." The more replies he gets to OPs like this one, the more his goal of conflict between gun owners is fed. He's already been banned on some of the gun-related forums listed in that first link for the same kind of idiocy he spews here.

Blues
 
The Calibre Press book, 'Street Survival,' has a photo of a BG who soaked up 33 rounds of police 9mm, and then it took a butt stroke with a shotgun to put him down, where he bled out. He was stoked to the gills on PCP and a number of the GSWs were fatal rounds. Normally, shot placement is far more important than caliber, but occasionally, drugs can pretty much negate the effects of gunfire long enough for the BG to inflict serious damage.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New Threads

Members online

No members online now.
Total: 46 (members: 0, guests: 46)

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
49,523
Messages
610,662
Members
74,992
Latest member
RedDotArmsTraining

Share this page

Back
Top