Liberty civil defense ammo

[Blredneck13]

This amunition was brought to my attention at a local gun store. I did what everyone does when something new is shown hit the interwebs and YouTube. Saw some interesting results, the 9mm is 50 grain leadless bullet moving at or about 2,000 fps saw a video of it beating level 2 body armor. Apparently designed do prevent over penetration being a frang round. Just curious if anyone has any experience with this round.

 

[corneileous]

I've only tried these in a 40 s&w and had great results blowing fairly large holes in an old dinosaur laptop....lol. Good ammo as far as that but, I haven't bought any more of these because I also had a failure to eject with them. Only practiced with a single box of 20 and after the sixth round in a rapid-fire situation, I had a shell casing that only got partially ejected. Just ended up plinking the rest of them after that. I guess I could have had a squib load but bein that I've never had any kind of failures with this gun (Beretta PX-4 Storm FS) before, I just blamed the ammo for it being so incredibly light considering the lightest I regularly shoot in this gun is 150 grain Winchester range rounds.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I guess I could have had a squib load but bein that I've never had any kind of failures with this gun (Beretta PX-4 Storm FS) before, I just blamed the ammo for it being so incredibly light

Just curious, what does the history of the gun regarding failures have anything to do with the possibility of a squib load when a squib load is an ammo problem?

 

[corneileous]

Just curious, what does the history of the gun regarding failures have anything to do with the possibility of a squib load when a squib load is an ammo problem?

You know, I don't know. But if you know, why don't you elaborate?

In case you didn't get it the first time, I was just simply stating that I have yet to have an issue with this gun so, that was the only time so, it was either a squib load or it was because the bullets were too light.

Again, I don't know why I had an issue with these rounds but, one thing is for certain, I did have an issue and I haven't used them since. Nor have I had another issue.

I guess squib load probably wasn't the preferred terminology, I just figured if it wasn't due to a lack of recoil with such a lightweight bullet that maybe it could have been from a slightly less powder charge in the round.

 

[HKS]

This amunition was brought to my attention at a local gun store. I did what everyone does when something new is shown hit the interwebs and YouTube. Saw some interesting results, the 9mm is 50 grain leadless bullet moving at or about 2,000 fps saw a video of it beating level 2 body armor. Apparently designed do prevent over penetration being a frang round. Just curious if anyone has any experience with this round.

I myself do NOT "hit the interwebs and YouTube". However I do hit Google.

Below is the google on the 45ACP version of this "Liberty Ammunition" product.

From the description it is solid copper. The bullet is ultra light weight so that it can reach phenomenal velocities.

The copper fragments upon impact.

The list of states where they (Liberty et al) cannot ship to is Calif, Conn, DC, Hawaii, Ill, Mass, NJ, and Canada. So there seems to be some issues about state law in this case. I did not see any Rocky Mountain states listed so I would presume it is legal in the Intermountain region, which is where I live and travel around, especially Las Vegas.

As to the question of whether there is a risk it might get stuck in the barrel of your pistol (squib), I think that is a valid concern for such an ultralight bullet. Since I am used to 230 grain bullets in my 45ACP and these are all of 78 grains, that is rather unconventional.

But the claim is that the recoil is significantly less.

Interesting topic. Thanks for the O/P.

45 ACP Lead Free - Liberty Ammunition

 

[corneileous]

I thought about trying these in my little LC9S Ruger but decided against it because of the results I had in my Beretta. But then again, the only reason I even considered these rounds in the first place was to cut back on weight in the Storm with the 17 round magazine I bought for it.

Since I carry the Ruger now, I really don't think 8 rounds of 50 grain bullets will be light enough to notice from the 147 grain Fed premium HST's....lol.

 

[HKS]

Yup, lighter weight is one of the things they (Liberty et al) advertise as an advantage.

With my 11 rounds (10 + 1) in my 45ACP weight is not a major issue. I agree.

My main concerns would be (1) performance on target (the human body), (2) collateral damage, and (3) misfires of any sort -- in that order of priority.

 

[NavyLCDR]

My main concerns would be (1) performance on target (the human body), (2) collateral damage, and (3) misfires of any sort -- in that order of priority.

Its interesting that you would put misfires as (3). (1) and (2) are not going to matter at all if the round does not go bang to begin with.

 

[HKS]

Its interesting that you would put misfires as (3). (1) and (2) are not going to matter at all if the round does not go bang to begin with.

Misfire here having the meaning of a squib. I hate bad ammo.

My ammo is usually all Federal both for my 45ACP and my 5.56x45.

And all JHP's for the 45ACP. FMJ for the 5.56x45.

 

[Blredneck13]

The interwebs I spoke about would be google in case you were unaware google is on the interwebs. I was just asking if anyone had experience and their thoughts on this because I saw some very interesting ballistics gel and other test performed. Plus I liked the thought of not having over penetration and potentially injuring/killing a bystander with say a gold dot or HST if for some reason they didn't expand like advertised, because we know factory claimed specs are conducted in an ideal world that doesn't exist.

 

[HKS]

The interwebs I spoke about would be google in case you were unaware google is on the interwebs. I was just asking if anyone had experience and their thoughts on this because I saw some very interesting ballistics gel and other test performed. Plus I liked the thought of not having over penetration and potentially injuring/killing a bystander with say a gold dot or HST if for some reason they didn't expand like advertised, because we know factory claimed specs are conducted in an ideal world that doesn't exist.

This new technology in bullets seems to work based on the copper bullets exploding on impact due to the extremely high velocities.

The extremely high velocities are due to the extremely light bullets.

For my hunting bullets in 200 grain at about the same muzzle velocity as the copper jacketed lead, the solid copper seems not to expand at all.

So this new development in handgun ammo (pistols and revolvers) is certainly worth a look.

In some things I am indeed an "early innovator".

But in others where my life depends on it I tend towards "old school" instead.

 

[bofh]

This amunition was brought to my attention at a local gun store. I did what everyone does when something new is shown hit the interwebs and YouTube. Saw some interesting results, the 9mm is 50 grain leadless bullet moving at or about 2,000 fps saw a video of it beating level 2 body armor. Apparently designed do prevent over penetration being a frang round. Just curious if anyone has any experience with this round.

Liberty Civil Defense 9mm can even defeat Level IIIa body armor (see the video below).

Ballistics gel tests do not directly translate to what actually happens when a human gets shot. Fragmenting handgun rounds, such as Liberty Civil Defense, generally underperform in terms of wound channel and penetration depth in comparison to standard JHP rounds.

There is a reason why no law enforcement agency in the US carries a fragmenting copper handgun round, and all law enforcement agencies in the US carry bonded JHP rounds. Most carry Federal HST or Speer Gold Dot. It is your choice to believe in the hype of a round that a company sells you for $1 per round, or in the trusted round for $0.36 per round.

Most innocent bystanders are hit by misses and not by pass-throughs, just ask the NYPD how they do that. A full-body pass-through of a JHP round is close to non-lethal as it spend most of its energy. A pass through a hand or arm of any round is still lethal. Your ammunition selection does not mean you can start violating rule #4: Be sure of your target, and what is behind it.

 

[mikestone967]

I bought the .380 version of the Liberty round but I'm too chicken to try it out in the Taurus P738!



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[bofh]

I bought the .380 version of the Liberty round but I'm too chicken to try it out in the Taurus P738!

Here is the test for the .380 ACP version: Liberty Ammunition—Civil Defense Line Review. It is apparently "very pleasant to shoot".