Lethal vs. Less Lethal ammo for self defense

How amusing, Ma'am.

I love the sweet bouquet of alcohol on women's and ladies' breaths.

But one drink cannot possibly affect your aim or your judgment that much.

It would take at least 2 if not 3.

For me it takes 7 -- preferably tequila -- most preferably smoky tequila aka mescal.
I don't lie.

I know what my capacity was in the days before I quit drinking for good. I also saw alcohol's effects on other women who were with me. Sometimes it took only one drink.
 
I don't lie.

I know what my capacity was in the days before I quit drinking for good. I also saw alcohol's effects on other women who were with me. Sometimes it took only one drink.

Alcohol releases the inner child and the honest person.

People on alcohol do not lie. And they do not hide their real persona inside either.

I have seen mean girlies on liquor and romantic girlies on liquor. They all amuse me very much. I love them all, even the meanies.

However a sober mean woman is a disaster to herself and to the Earth.

Vodka and lemon is a good drink for the ladies (and women) [the difference being etymologically that ladies are "unmarried bread bakers" while women are "married ladies"].

A little bit of libation once a week or so is good for the soul -- and body.

And nothing about the World (here having the meaning of the population of the Earth) changes on one drink -- you still need to be able to draw quickly and shoot straight.

That's also why I always recommend a leather zippered purse with a thick long shoulder strap for females (humans) carrying concealed -- this way she can grip her handgun inside her purse and remain concealed until needed.
 
Alcohol releases the inner child and the honest person.
Alcohol is a depressant.

People on alcohol do not lie.
Now I know you're joking. One of the biggest lies they tell is about how much alcohol they've consumed.

And they do not hide their real persona inside either.
Not always a good thing, especially in abusive relationships.

I have seen mean girlies on liquor and romantic girlies on liquor. They all amuse me very much. I love them all, even the meanies.
That's your personal preference. It has nothing to do with how much alcohol it might take to influence a person carrying a weapon. That's individual capacity under varied circumstances.

However a sober mean woman is a disaster to herself and to the Earth.
That relates to the topic how?

Vodka and lemon is a good drink for the ladies (and women) [the difference being etymologically that ladies are "unmarried bread bakers" while women are "married ladies"].
Topic?

A little bit of libation once a week or so is good for the soul -- and body.
Topic?

And nothing about the World (here having the meaning of the population of the Earth) changes on one drink -- you still need to be able to draw quickly and shoot straight.

That's also why I always recommend a leather zippered purse with a thick long shoulder strap for females (humans) carrying concealed -- this way she can grip her handgun inside her purse and remain concealed until needed.
That's your opinion. Of course, what do I know. I'm only a woman. :rolleyes:
 
Alcohol is a depressant.


Now I know you're joking. One of the biggest lies they tell is about how much alcohol they've consumed.


Not always a good thing, especially in abusive relationships.


That's your personal preference. It has nothing to do with how much alcohol it might take to influence a person carrying a weapon. That's individual capacity under varied circumstances.


That relates to the topic how?


Topic?


Topic?


That's your opinion. Of course, what do I know. I'm only a woman. :rolleyes:
Lol actually all of its off topic

Sent from my SM-G360T1 using Tapatalk
 
Alcohol is a depressant.


Now I know you're joking. One of the biggest lies they tell is about how much alcohol they've consumed.


Not always a good thing, especially in abusive relationships.


That's your personal preference. It has nothing to do with how much alcohol it might take to influence a person carrying a weapon. That's individual capacity under varied circumstances.


That relates to the topic how?


Topic?


Topic?


That's your opinion. Of course, what do I know. I'm only a woman. :rolleyes:

I would love to be in an abusive relationship with a woman abusing me.

As long as she does it slow so that I can enjoy it more it would be Heaven.
 
I would love to be in an abusive relationship with a woman abusing me.

As long as she does it slow so that I can enjoy it more it would be Heaven.
Lol they probably have a dating app for that lmao.... have fun

Sent from my SM-G360T1 using Tapatalk
 
Lol they probably have a dating app for that lmao.... have fun

Sent from my SM-G360T1 using Tapatalk

Beware the Internet.

The best place to meet females (ladies and women) is at church or at a bar or pub.

And even then, they and you always need to be armed.

My pistol goes under the pillow. Their pistol stays in their purse which they put next to the bed.

I win.
 
All ammo is lethal. No training required, simply common sense. Hollow Point ammo is most recommended for personal defense.
 
That is also ridiculously excessive.

One drink never hurt anybody.

Judgment is tricky and it is the issue in court. Even just one drink has some, however minuscule, effect on one's judgment, which is how "just one" sometimes turns into "how did I end up here?"
As a result, if you find yourself in court defending your use of a firearm and there was any alcohol or other substance in your system, your testimony will be tarnished. Your only real defense will be the testimony of the other witnesses, whose testimony will also be tarnished and possibly contradictory to your statement of the facts.
It isn't just a matter of whether it was a justified shoot. The jury will be asked to determine whether you had other options before the first shot and whether your state of mind and behavior contributed to the escalation. That one drink will weigh heavily in their minds.
Have a coke.

It might be an interesting activity to get a few very good friends (at least 2 shooter/drinkers and an equal number of designated drivers/observers) together and drive out to the desert with some adult beverages, as well as non-alcoholic bevvies for the designated driver(s) and observer(s). In advance plan some scenarios and set up some targets for the experiment. Do some control scenarios stone-cold sober demonstrating baseline skills at 1) marksmanship and 2) judgmental decision making (both appropriate and timely). After each set take a 15 minute break and have a beer, then repeat with varied scenarios. 4 beers would give a good time frame and BAH level and not take too long. If the whole exercise were videotaped and narrated it might make a really fascinating YouTube. I would recommend only taking a limited supply of bevvies in order to ensure that things don't go too far south after the experiment.

Disclaimer: While not a teetotaler, I don't consume a 6-pack in a year. I have absolutely no experience making decisions, shooting, or driving after even one drink. My only comparable experience is post-surgery conversations during which my hospital visitors tell me I am funny, but not too sharp.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
As a result, if you find yourself in court defending your use of a firearm and there was any alcohol or other substance in your system, your testimony will be tarnished. Your only real defense will be the testimony of the other witnesses, whose testimony will also be tarnished and possibly contradictory to your statement of the facts.
It isn't just a matter of whether it was a justified shoot. The jury will be asked to determine whether you had other options before the first shot and whether your state of mind and behavior contributed to the escalation. That one drink will weigh heavily in their minds.

Can you provide examples of this actually occuring?
 
Can you provide examples of this actually occuring?

A lot of people make the claim, but nobody has been able to provide an example yet.

Back to the OP's original question:

What are others thoughts on this? How does the law/courts view using less lethal rounds for self defense? Would love others opinions.

1. Police do not mix ammo in their magazines. Therefore, I'm not going to.

2. Another reason mixing ammo is bad is because different ammo will have different characteristics including recoil and point of impact vs. point of aim. You need to practice with what you carry enough so that you know all it's characteristics.
 
Alcohol releases the inner child and the honest person.

People on alcohol do not lie. And they do not hide their real persona inside either.

I have seen mean girlies on liquor and romantic girlies on liquor. They all amuse me very much. I love them all, even the meanies.

However a sober mean woman is a disaster to herself and to the Earth.

Vodka and lemon is a good drink for the ladies (and women) [the difference being etymologically that ladies are "unmarried bread bakers" while women are "married ladies"].

A little bit of libation once a week or so is good for the soul -- and body.

And nothing about the World (here having the meaning of the population of the Earth) changes on one drink -- you still need to be able to draw quickly and shoot straight.

That's also why I always recommend a leather zippered purse with a thick long shoulder strap for females (humans) carrying concealed -- this way she can grip her handgun inside her purse and remain concealed until needed.

Yep. PWI (Posting While Intoxicated).
 
Personally I think its a mistake to think any ammo is non lethal. And I would never want to say differently in open court.

When hunting you find that the size of the whole is a lot less important than where you put it.

If using hollow point you say its to limit possible collateral damage.
If you are using ball ammo you say its because you where afraid the gun might jam when you needed it the most.
 
I am soon going to start carrying a concealed weapon and have been pondering and reading about the numerous methods, theories, tips, etc. I am curious about other opinions on carrying, or using for defense at home, less lethal rounds. I can see two clear sides to the issue and would love others thoughts, particularly on the legal ramifications.

If I could convince myself that a self defense round could fire reliably from my carry gun, I would think it'd be beneficial to say place two less than lethal rounds at the top of the magazine followed by hollow points. This way I could potentially stop a situation without having kill, which seems logical. the intent of concealed carry is stop violence and preserve life. The potential issue I see here is should have to use my weapon and I get sued or have to prove my case, would I be screwing myself by shooting less than lethal ammo? I get it that technically less than lethal ammo could still be lethal, but I can picture a defense attorney saying "Well, if you really thought your life was in imminent danger, why only shoot with less than lethal?" I could see this situation looking worse for an altercation out in public than at home. I guess I would say here, I felt my life was threatened, but my intent was not kill, but rather to stop the altercation. The only drawback would be a very rare situation in which I would have to draw my weapon in a situation where say I was already being shot at, in which case, I could see wanting those hollow points on top.

What are others thoughts on this? How does the law/courts view using less lethal rounds for self defense? Would love others opinions.





Sent from my iPhone using Link Removed
 
I agree that less lethal would be a thought while in a public place. But odds are you are less likely to be attacked in a public or heavily populated area. Proper training from you local Sherrifs or Police departments are well worth the price you pay and most of your fees are donated by the departments. I know here in Indiana it's about $50 for 4 hours classroom then off to the range.


Sent from my iPhone using USA Carry
 
I agree that less lethal would be a thought while in a public place. But odds are you are less likely to be attacked in a public or heavily populated area. Proper training from you local Sherrifs or Police departments are well worth the price you pay and most of your fees are donated by the departments. I know here in Indiana it's about $50 for 4 hours classroom then off to the range.

I think to further this discussion, we need to actually specify what we are talking about in this thread. The OP made only one post and never specified what less than lethal ammunition is. The only handgun ammunition that I can come up with that would fit that profile would be CCI Shotshell. As already mentioned in this thread, such ammunition can still be deadly, such as when shooting someone in the face. I think it is outright stupid to carry such ammunition for self defense against humans.

As for your comment about using such rounds while in a "public place". The OP is about concealed carry, which implies in the public and not on private property.

As for your comment about being less likely to be attacked in a public or heavily populated area, that's absolute nonsense. There is no data to support that. Recent mall shootings show otherwise. Good luck using such type of ammunition in a crowd, by the way. Also, are you going to switch out your ammunition when going from the populated mall to the less-populated parking lot?

As for your comment about training from the local Sheriff or Police Department, I think you got that backwards. Such training classes is for beginners, where they tell you what a bullet, trigger and slide is. Then you go to a 180-degree square shooting range to shoot at a stationary target. Actual self defense classes are taught by professional firearms instructors, where the Sheriff and Police Department send their guys to get training as well.
 
I don't know about other places but in my area none of the sheriffs or police departments conduct any kind of shooting classes for the public. If anything, their people use the same private instructors that the pubic has available for advanced or refresher training.
 
Summary findings

Between 2004 and 2008 --
About 1 in 3 violent crimes occurred in or near the victim’s own home.
During this time period almost 1 in 5 violent crimes took place in open areas such as yards, playgrounds, fields, on the street or in other similar locations.
Almost two thirds of all property crimes took place in or near the home of the household members.
More than 1 in 10 property crimes occurred in parking lots or garages.
Purse snatchings and pocket pickings typically occur away from home. The most common places of occurrence were in commercial places such as restaurants, bars and other commercial buildings (39.1%) and open areas such as the street or on public transportation (28.2%). About 10% of personal thefts occurred in or near the victim’s home or the home of a friend or neighbor.


Sent from my iPhone using USA Carry
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
49,521
Messages
610,658
Members
74,992
Latest member
RedDotArmsTraining
Back
Top