TechStuffBC
New member
Second Interaction
- [Personally, "interaction" is a better word that "encounter". Of course, if I did use "encounter" and since this is my 2nd of such, I could then use "Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind" ...haha]
- This interaction was with the State Police (SP) on Monday, January 16, 2012, @ 8:42 A.M.
- This interaction also occurred at the State Capital Building.
- I did not have my CWP yet (still waiting to hear from the Sheriff), thus I was OC'ing. Again, I OC on my 4PM (back-right side) and carrying my coat draped over my left forearm (e.g, not wearing the coat lest I be accused of CC’ing sans a CWP).
- I did have a recording device this time.
- I was with purpose to visit with my State Representative(s) and State Senator regarding a bill rom the 2011 Legislative session, which I call the "Constitutional Carry" bill. Specifically, I was (and I am still not well-pleased) that our state law put into place by "the King and His Court," per se, does "exempt" "the King and His Court," and all of our state's county, city, and state employees (hired, appointed, or elected) from having to obtain a CWP, though the general citizen must obtain such. Specifically, that the bill, or portions thereof, need again be introduced to remove the CWP "exemption".
- Around 8:30am I did go into a Committee Room where a Senate public hearing was occurring, this to merely "observe" the Legislators in action; something I hadn't ever done before. Prior to entering, I did have a brief chat with a Capital Mall security guard (Guard) I recognized from years earlier, then proceeded in and sat down near the front-left (2nd row back) public seating area; having canvassed the room as a whole (e.g., observational assessment).
A few minutes later a young Senate Page came in; candidly, she looked to be of teenage years. She was at my 11am. She viewed me several times, having notepad and pencil in hand seeming to take notes. She left and a few minutes later an SP LEO (LEO #1) came in and sat at the other end of the row I was on. Interesting. What I later (that week) realize(d) is that I didn't do, but should have, another observational assessment of the room as well the hall.
- Now, at that time the Senate committee opened up for public comment on a bill being considered and, having never done so before, I decided to *fully* immerse myself into the experience (per se). Thus, I opted to provided some "public input" on the bill at hand. Again, it wasn't my original intention to do so, but took opportunity to do such, having never done so before. Afterwards I sat down for a few more minutes wherein I received a txt msg from my spouse wondering where I was at (I left earlier before she woke). I decided to exit to a) call my spouse and then B) continue on toward meeting with my Representatives & Senator.
- LEO #1 followed me out. Upon exiting the door I became aware of another SP LEO (LEO #2) as well as the Guard being outside the door. I choose to stop at the table directly next to the door(s), putting my coat upon it, this to free my hands to call my spouse. LEO #2 stopped me and asked my name, which I provided. It was at this juncture I considered reaching for my vid-cam and begin recording, though saw a security camera pointed our direction and opted not to do such knowing full well I would do a Request for Public Records (which I did the next day).
- They asked for identification and if I had a CWP. I did not have a CWP and noted such. At this time, I was not aware that by providing my DL I would be a "consenting to a search".
- LEO #2 did question of my OC and, further, he was with speculative conclusion and did seem to try to corner me (to get me) to admit that I had CC'd, even into the room minutes earlier. LEO #2 even asked the Guard if the Guard did see my OC, to which the Guard stated he did not see the firearm. LEO #2 then asked LEO #1 if LEO #1 had seen my firearm earlier, to which LEO #1 did answer he did not see the firearm.
- It was at this point I was regretting not pulling out my vid-cam and start recording. However, I continued to not do such, all the while regretting such throughout the entire interaction.
- I did hand my DL to LEO #2 who stepped a small distance away and called in my info. LEO #1 began asking why I was OC'ing and I noted that I did because it was my right to do so. LEO #1 also started to again point out to me he not seeing me OC, that when I was wearing my coat I would've been CC'ing, and it being a violation of state law since I had no CWP. I stated: I'l put my coat on and demonstrate how I OC with my coat tucked inside the firearm, thus "OC'ing". (Yes, bad choice on my part; but it went OK) I did this, all the while never CC'ing during the "demo" (then removed the coat).
- LEO #2 did return, handing back my DL. He did again state/question of my CC'ing approaching and then entering the room, to which I confidently noted I had not done such. Further, this included the entire time I was in the building, outside the building and even in my car, thank you very much.
What the LEO's didn't seem to know was that I passed by them on 3 separate occasions earlier that morning. They were always approaching me on my left, thus unable to see my OC @ 4PM.
- The LEOs did "strongly informed" me that the Building in general was a "sensitive" location and that other "citizens might have considerable concern" seeing me OC. To which I replied "I appreciate your perspective, of which I do take into account. I would also appreciate very much you take just as much time as you've done vetting me out to also inform other citizens of both my and their rights to OC. I have need to continue about with my personal business and I'll be on my way if that's OK," to which they said OK. I thanked them for their time and continued on (seeking out my State Reps & Senator).
- Interestingly, the LEO's seemed to "show up" throughout the later morning in other areas I visited. Dismayingly, one of them interrupted (in a mild abrupt way) a conversation I was having with the gentleman who sits at the Senate Chambers entrance area. He came across as if to try and give me the impression he was seeking to press his superiority.
- The video I obtained from the security cameras during that day shows my never CC'ing at any time while in the building. This includes entering the building, entering the room, all their activity in the hall, my exiting the room, subsequent interaction and exiting the building later that morning. I don't have any interest in making the video public (it's also no longer available to request as public record, having been destroyed; a clear violation of state law for public records).
Even now I am mildly not well-pleased of it being suggested, even if every so mildly, by either LEO that I CC'd when, in fact, I never did. It's that element of the entire (second) interaction which displeases me which the two LEOs did engage upon, of which has lowered their integrity & respect factors for me, albeit for the short-term.
Side note: Disappointingly, neither my Representatives nor Senator were "available" that day to personally meet with at length, though I did briefly chat with one of them during a JFAC meeting break (he's on the JFAC). Neither the other Representative nor my State Senator ever replied to my repeated inquiries. The Representative I did briefly chat with did reply a few times later that week. However, a week later all further inquiries to him went unanswered. He's now running for a Senate spot in his newly defined district. I'd still vote for him if I could.
- [Personally, "interaction" is a better word that "encounter". Of course, if I did use "encounter" and since this is my 2nd of such, I could then use "Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind" ...haha]
- This interaction was with the State Police (SP) on Monday, January 16, 2012, @ 8:42 A.M.
- This interaction also occurred at the State Capital Building.
- I did not have my CWP yet (still waiting to hear from the Sheriff), thus I was OC'ing. Again, I OC on my 4PM (back-right side) and carrying my coat draped over my left forearm (e.g, not wearing the coat lest I be accused of CC’ing sans a CWP).
- I did have a recording device this time.
- I was with purpose to visit with my State Representative(s) and State Senator regarding a bill rom the 2011 Legislative session, which I call the "Constitutional Carry" bill. Specifically, I was (and I am still not well-pleased) that our state law put into place by "the King and His Court," per se, does "exempt" "the King and His Court," and all of our state's county, city, and state employees (hired, appointed, or elected) from having to obtain a CWP, though the general citizen must obtain such. Specifically, that the bill, or portions thereof, need again be introduced to remove the CWP "exemption".
- Around 8:30am I did go into a Committee Room where a Senate public hearing was occurring, this to merely "observe" the Legislators in action; something I hadn't ever done before. Prior to entering, I did have a brief chat with a Capital Mall security guard (Guard) I recognized from years earlier, then proceeded in and sat down near the front-left (2nd row back) public seating area; having canvassed the room as a whole (e.g., observational assessment).
A few minutes later a young Senate Page came in; candidly, she looked to be of teenage years. She was at my 11am. She viewed me several times, having notepad and pencil in hand seeming to take notes. She left and a few minutes later an SP LEO (LEO #1) came in and sat at the other end of the row I was on. Interesting. What I later (that week) realize(d) is that I didn't do, but should have, another observational assessment of the room as well the hall.
- Now, at that time the Senate committee opened up for public comment on a bill being considered and, having never done so before, I decided to *fully* immerse myself into the experience (per se). Thus, I opted to provided some "public input" on the bill at hand. Again, it wasn't my original intention to do so, but took opportunity to do such, having never done so before. Afterwards I sat down for a few more minutes wherein I received a txt msg from my spouse wondering where I was at (I left earlier before she woke). I decided to exit to a) call my spouse and then B) continue on toward meeting with my Representatives & Senator.
- LEO #1 followed me out. Upon exiting the door I became aware of another SP LEO (LEO #2) as well as the Guard being outside the door. I choose to stop at the table directly next to the door(s), putting my coat upon it, this to free my hands to call my spouse. LEO #2 stopped me and asked my name, which I provided. It was at this juncture I considered reaching for my vid-cam and begin recording, though saw a security camera pointed our direction and opted not to do such knowing full well I would do a Request for Public Records (which I did the next day).
- They asked for identification and if I had a CWP. I did not have a CWP and noted such. At this time, I was not aware that by providing my DL I would be a "consenting to a search".
- LEO #2 did question of my OC and, further, he was with speculative conclusion and did seem to try to corner me (to get me) to admit that I had CC'd, even into the room minutes earlier. LEO #2 even asked the Guard if the Guard did see my OC, to which the Guard stated he did not see the firearm. LEO #2 then asked LEO #1 if LEO #1 had seen my firearm earlier, to which LEO #1 did answer he did not see the firearm.
- It was at this point I was regretting not pulling out my vid-cam and start recording. However, I continued to not do such, all the while regretting such throughout the entire interaction.
- I did hand my DL to LEO #2 who stepped a small distance away and called in my info. LEO #1 began asking why I was OC'ing and I noted that I did because it was my right to do so. LEO #1 also started to again point out to me he not seeing me OC, that when I was wearing my coat I would've been CC'ing, and it being a violation of state law since I had no CWP. I stated: I'l put my coat on and demonstrate how I OC with my coat tucked inside the firearm, thus "OC'ing". (Yes, bad choice on my part; but it went OK) I did this, all the while never CC'ing during the "demo" (then removed the coat).
- LEO #2 did return, handing back my DL. He did again state/question of my CC'ing approaching and then entering the room, to which I confidently noted I had not done such. Further, this included the entire time I was in the building, outside the building and even in my car, thank you very much.
What the LEO's didn't seem to know was that I passed by them on 3 separate occasions earlier that morning. They were always approaching me on my left, thus unable to see my OC @ 4PM.
- The LEOs did "strongly informed" me that the Building in general was a "sensitive" location and that other "citizens might have considerable concern" seeing me OC. To which I replied "I appreciate your perspective, of which I do take into account. I would also appreciate very much you take just as much time as you've done vetting me out to also inform other citizens of both my and their rights to OC. I have need to continue about with my personal business and I'll be on my way if that's OK," to which they said OK. I thanked them for their time and continued on (seeking out my State Reps & Senator).
- Interestingly, the LEO's seemed to "show up" throughout the later morning in other areas I visited. Dismayingly, one of them interrupted (in a mild abrupt way) a conversation I was having with the gentleman who sits at the Senate Chambers entrance area. He came across as if to try and give me the impression he was seeking to press his superiority.
- The video I obtained from the security cameras during that day shows my never CC'ing at any time while in the building. This includes entering the building, entering the room, all their activity in the hall, my exiting the room, subsequent interaction and exiting the building later that morning. I don't have any interest in making the video public (it's also no longer available to request as public record, having been destroyed; a clear violation of state law for public records).
Even now I am mildly not well-pleased of it being suggested, even if every so mildly, by either LEO that I CC'd when, in fact, I never did. It's that element of the entire (second) interaction which displeases me which the two LEOs did engage upon, of which has lowered their integrity & respect factors for me, albeit for the short-term.
Side note: Disappointingly, neither my Representatives nor Senator were "available" that day to personally meet with at length, though I did briefly chat with one of them during a JFAC meeting break (he's on the JFAC). Neither the other Representative nor my State Senator ever replied to my repeated inquiries. The Representative I did briefly chat with did reply a few times later that week. However, a week later all further inquiries to him went unanswered. He's now running for a Senate spot in his newly defined district. I'd still vote for him if I could.
