LEO Encounter on my property...

[NavyLCDR]

So, I had to call the Sheriff to report trespassing. I never mentioned to the 911 dispatcher that I was armed. Never mentioned to the responding deputy that I was armed nor anything about my CPL. Had a professional encounter with the deputy who checked things out for me, I wished him a safe and good day and all turned out well.

I did put my shirt over the gun to cover it up when I saw him turn into my driveway. Funny how concealed means concealed, when I choose to conceal it. As far as I know the deputy went home safe to his family at the end of his shift.

 

[crowsnake]

In illinois no CC so when I had my Ruger Mark III strapped to my side in case I saw that skunk I'd bern after, & a county officer knocked on the door @ the old Stable looking 4 the guy who used to rent the place from us. I just opened the door & stood talking 2 him armed. He never made a comment about it. He was armed 2.

Told him good luck finding him, & took a card in case I got his address later on. After he went on his way my husband started giving me heck 4 not covering up my gun. Well that would have been illegal its not illegal to B armed on your own property in Illinois. But conceal is.

 

[Rich_S]

When you call the police to your property in an emergency it's best to alert them during the call that you, the home owner, are armed and provide a description of yourself if possible (time warranting). This way if they arrive on scene and see you holding a perp at gun point they know that you are a GG. This reduces the chances of the GG getting shot by responding officers in error. This sort of thing is covered in civilian firearms training.

 

[SGB]

 

[NavyLCDR]

When you call the police to your property in an emergency it's best to alert them during the call that you, the home owner, are armed and provide a description of yourself if possible (time warranting). This way if they arrive on scene and see you holding a perp at gun point they know that you are a GG. This reduces the chances of the GG getting shot by responding officers in error. This sort of thing is covered in civilian firearms training.

This wasn't an emergency. It was a call for an officer to make a routine report about a suspicion person that was on my property at one time and who had since left my property. Why in hell would I escalate a routine call by bringing a firearm into a situation in which it was completely 100% irrelevent? Although, I supposed if I told them I was holding a gun (which I wasn't), maybe it would have been less than 20 minutes for the deputy to arrive. Concealed means concealed, especially in the presence of strangers. Just because that stranger is wearing a badge and a uniform, they are still a stranger. Unless required otherwise by statute, obviously. I would think that civilian concealed carry instruction would teach what concealed means.

Thank you for your input, however non-applicable it is to the situation being discussed.

 

[Rich_S]

This wasn't an emergency. It was a call for an officer to make a routine report about a suspicion person that was on my property at one time and who had since left my property. Why in hell would I escalate a routine call by bringing a firearm into a situation in which it was completely 100% irrelevent? Although, I supposed if I told them I was holding a gun (which I wasn't), maybe it would have been less than 20 minutes for the deputy to arrive. Concealed means concealed, especially in the presence of strangers. Just because that stranger is wearing a badge and a uniform, they are still a stranger. Unless required otherwise by statute, obviously. I would think that civilian concealed carry instruction would teach what concealed means.

Thank you for your input, however non-applicable it is to the situation being discussed.

Are you in the habit of calling 911 for non-emergency situations? You call 911 and go in the house to retrieve a gun and now say it wasn't an emergency? Did you call 911 before or after they left your property? Did you or did you not confront someone while armed? If you drew just as the cops rolled up wouldn't you say it would be a good idea for them to know there was an armed homeowner involved in advance? You don't like being told you're wrong- do you? You effed up in several different ways on this one like it or not. Take some training.

 

[Golfbuddy45]

In North Carolina it is a requirement of having a CCW to notify any officer in any situation IF POSSIBLE that you are carrying - concealed or not. If they do a check they (LEO) will already know you have a CCW because it will come up with your name or Drivers License number. This is part of the CCW training and is on the final test. For example if you are stopped for a traffic violation you must inform the officer when approached that you are carrying. The officer will normally take your gun, unload it, and place it in his vehicle. After the incident is complete the officer will return your gun to you with the clip/ammo removed. If you are on your property and call for an officer the LEO will ask you to put the weapon down or holster it while he checks out the situation. We do not have any issues with this requirement as it is for their own protection as well as ours. If you do not report that you are carrying you can have your CCW revoked PERMANENTLY. Concealed Carry is a PRIVILEDGE - not a right.

 

[GunsHarleysUSA]

I live in Minnesota and we do not have a concealed permit, it is a permit to carry a handgun, and I do carry every where, at home as well as away from home, because you never know when the ***** will hit the fan and yes I do carry concealed. But I will always tell a cop or a 911 operator that I'm armed. You need to have a little respect for the cop's and the crap they deal with daily, but that is the way I feel, your millage may vary. I just put myself in their position and ask myself that question, and my answer is yes I would want to know if the person I'm dealing with is armed or not just for piece of mind.....

 

[NavyLCDR]

We do not have any issues with this requirement as it is for their own protection as well as ours. If you do not report that you are carrying you can have your CCW revoked PERMANENTLY. Concealed Carry is a PRIVILEDGE - not a right.

#1, may I ask what qualifies you to speak for every resident of North Carolina? YOU have no problems with the requirement. That does not mean that there are not North Carolina residents who DO have a problem with the requirement.

#2, My incident occurred in Washington, North Carolina law has nothing to do with it.

 

[Rich_S]

In North Carolina it is a requirement of having a CCW to notify any officer in any situation IF POSSIBLE that you are carrying - concealed or not. If they do a check they (LEO) will already know you have a CCW because it will come up with your name or Drivers License number. This is part of the CCW training and is on the final test. For example if you are stopped for a traffic violation you must inform the officer when approached that you are carrying. The officer will normally take your gun, unload it, and place it in his vehicle. After the incident is complete the officer will return your gun to you with the clip/ammo removed. If you are on your property and call for an officer the LEO will ask you to put the weapon down or holster it while he checks out the situation. We do not have any issues with this requirement as it is for their own protection as well as ours. If you do not report that you are carrying you can have your CCW revoked PERMANENTLY. Concealed Carry is a PRIVILEDGE - not a right.

#1, may I ask what qualifies you to speak for every resident of North Carolina? YOU have no problems with the requirement. That does not mean that there are not North Carolina residents who DO have a problem with the requirement.

#2, My incident occurred in Washington, North Carolina law has nothing to do with it.

Golf: If you really want a clear picture here you should go to the other thread to see where he's back peddling and trying to make an attempt at damage control.

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/general-firearm-discussion/22588-i-goofed-dealing-trespasser.html

 

[NavyLCDR]

Are you in the habit of calling 911 for non-emergency situations? You call 911 and go in the house to retrieve a gun and now say it wasn't an emergency? Did you call 911 before or after they left your property? Did you or did you not confront someone while armed? If you drew just as the cops rolled up wouldn't you say it would be a good idea for them to know there was an armed homeowner involved in advance? You don't like being told you're wrong- do you? You effed up in several different ways on this one like it or not. Take some training.

I called 911 as I was exiting my house to obtain the license plate number of the vehicle after I observed that there was a dog in the vehicle. The dog in the vehicle changed the situation from merely a vehicle parked on my property, to a situation requiring more immediate attention. The entire confrontation with the human subject occurred while I was on the phone with 911 and the person was in the process of leaving my property before the call was ended.

Yes, I confronted the person while openly carrying a handgun in a holster on my belt. My actions were being witnessed by two other ocupants in my home. If the issue of the firearm arose, it would be the word of a person who turned out to be intoxicated against myself (the person on whose land they were located), and two other persons. None of us three have criminal records, and I am an officer in the US Military with 27 years of spotless military service. Given the weight of evidence in my favor, I felt no need to introduce the firearm into the encounter with the police officer. Entirely different set of circumstances than an encounter with a criminal in a public place.

Should the situation have escalated into a violent encounter, there was a strong possibility it would have been heard over the phone by the 911 operator and then I would consider it warranted to inform the operator that I was armed.

Regarding 911 usage:
http://www.emd.wa.gov/e911/publications/911-seconds-count.pdf

WHEN SHOULD I CALL 9-1-1?​

Whenever you need a response from police, fire, or emergency medical personnel. Ifyou are unsure you have an emergency, dial 9-1-1 and let the communications center​

decide what action to take.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Also, BTW, there is Washington State Supreme Court case law which establishes that even a firearm carried in the hand does not, by itself, rise to the level of illegal display of a firearm.

 

[Firefighterchen]

In North Carolina it is a requirement of having a CCW to notify any officer in any situation IF POSSIBLE that you are carrying - concealed or not. If they do a check they (LEO) will already know you have a CCW because it will come up with your name or Drivers License number. This is part of the CCW training and is on the final test. For example if you are stopped for a traffic violation you must inform the officer when approached that you are carrying. The officer will normally take your gun, unload it, and place it in his vehicle. After the incident is complete the officer will return your gun to you with the clip/ammo removed. If you are on your property and call for an officer the LEO will ask you to put the weapon down or holster it while he checks out the situation. We do not have any issues with this requirement as it is for their own protection as well as ours. If you do not report that you are carrying you can have your CCW revoked PERMANENTLY. Concealed Carry is a PRIVILEDGE - not a right.

Its a sad day when your government passes laws for officer "safety" and brainwashed its citizens into thinking a right is a privilege. I would be ashamed to live in NC. We have issues here in WA...but at least we are on the right road back...not sure if that road exists in NC. Like navy said, hopefully other NC residence are better drivers.

Taking my gun away is taking my protection away...period.

 

[Firefighterchen]

I live in Minnesota and we do not have a concealed permit, it is a permit to carry a handgun, and I do carry every where, at home as well as away from home, because you never know when the ***** will hit the fan and yes I do carry concealed. But I will always tell a cop or a 911 operator that I'm armed. You need to have a little respect for the cop's and the crap they deal with daily, but that is the way I feel, your millage may vary. I just put myself in their position and ask myself that question, and my answer is yes I would want to know if the person I'm dealing with is armed or not just for piece of mind.....

Let me ask you this ...

Say you forgot to put out the garbage, and you run outside to stop the garbage man before he leaves, do you then tell him you have a gun and give it to him to unload for his safety? He deals with more crap everyday, literally, and has a more dangerous job.

How about this situation...

You break your femur, someone calls 911 for an ambulance, when the paramedics arrive, do you then tell them you have a gun, hand it over, and let them unload it for safety?

Would you rather wait for police to arrive to hand your gun over before paramedics come to help? Increasing the chances of losing the limb or your life?

Are you a bad guy they need to worry about?

 

[Rich_S]

I called 911 as I was exiting my house to obtain the license plate number of the vehicle after I observed that there was a dog in the vehicle. The dog in the vehicle changed the situation from merely a vehicle parked on my property, to a situation requiring more immediate attention. The entire confrontation with the human subject occurred while I was on the phone with 911 and the person was in the process of leaving my property before the call was ended.

Yes, I confronted the person while openly carrying a handgun in a holster on my belt. My actions were being witnessed by two other ocupants in my home. If the issue of the firearm arose, it would be the word of a person who turned out to be intoxicated against myself (the person on whose land they were located), and two other persons. None of us three have criminal records, and I am an officer in the US Military with 27 years of spotless military service. Given the weight of evidence in my favor, I felt no need to introduce the firearm into the encounter with the police officer. Entirely different set of circumstances than an encounter with a criminal in a public place.

Should the situation have escalated into a violent encounter, there was a strong possibility it would have been heard over the phone by the 911 operator and then I would consider it warranted to inform the operator that I was armed.

Regarding 911 usage:
http://www.emd.wa.gov/e911/publications/911-seconds-count.pdf

OK....let's see how well you can keep spinning this. You said before it wasn't an emergency. Now you say seeing the dog required more immediate attention. So it required more immediate attention but wasn't an emergency then? The point of notifying the police who are responding that you're armed isn't a matter of one person's word against another and who would be in the right because of who you are versus who they are and who's witnessing the events. It's not to make the police feel at ease or comfortable in dealing with you. It's not a matter of whether it's required by law in your state. It's so the responding officers know that they're rolling up on an armed good guy. That's in your own interest to reduce the risk of the cops shooting you. It is entirely different than an encounter with a BG in public. Here you had the opportunity to let the cops know what was going on.
The fact that you put yourself in a potentially dangerous situation when it was absolutely unnecessary is another matter entirely and it was a huge mistake on your part.

 

[Rich_S]

Also, BTW, there is Washington State Supreme Court case law which establishes that even a firearm carried in the hand does not, by itself, rise to the level of illegal display of a firearm.

Where/when did illegal display of a firearm come into question here?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Where/when did illegal display of a firearm come into question here?

It was never a question. I made a statement. My statements are not required to be made in answer to questions.

The fact that you put yourself in a potentially dangerous situation when it was absolutely unnecessary is another matter entirely and it was a huge mistake on your part.

Tell you what, Rich_S, next time I'll do it your way. I will retreat into my house, lock the doors, look up the non-emergency number to the sheriff's office at 6:00am. Then I will call them and tell them I am locked in my house, that I am armed, give them a description of myself and my family members, and then tell them there is no need to hurry because this all is because there is an unknown SUV in my driveway, which I would not know was occupied by anyone human or animal or not. Then when the police arrive I will greet them with my hands held high, with my Washington CPL and military ID in one hand at the ready, tell them the gun is under my shirt on my right side and tell the officer I completely understand if he wishes to take it from me for his safety, and feel free to call in the serial number of the gun, while he is there, just to make sure it isn't stolen. Wouldn't want to waste a trip.

Oh, and I will have my wallet, and maybe some of my wife's jewelry at hand in case there does happen to be a criminal present and I can just give those to them so they will leave.

:secret: Not going to happen.

 

[defender829]

I called 911 Monday because of a trespasser.
My wife and mother-in-law had just returned from a trip, and said they thought they had seen someone on the front porch of a nearby vacant house of ours. I was OCing, and I stuck another pistol in my pocket, and went to investigate.
I did not see anybody at the house, but a window was open.
My first inclination was to enter the house myself, but opted instead to call 911.
When a couple of sheriff deputies arrived, I failed to notify them I was carrying! YIKES! I used my shirt tail cover the guns, initially. While we were moving about the property, I kept a hand on one gun, with it partly withdrawn. The deputies (three of them now) very professionally inspected the property, with pistols in hand, and determined the intruder had was no longer there.
The next day (yesterday), I happened on a traffic checkpoint that was being manned by some of these same deputies. One of them greeted me very warmly and said they were checking driver's licenses. Before I could finish pulling mine out, he said "That's good sir, you can go!". YIKES! I failed to notify I was carrying AGAIN! Am I a miserable creature for putting these officers' lives in such grave danger?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Uhoh, defender829. You know what that makes you to a lot of other people on this forum, right?

Link Removed

 

[unevrno]

Are you in the habit of calling 911 for non-emergency situations? You call 911 and go in the house to retrieve a gun and now say it wasn't an emergency? Did you call 911 before or after they left your property? Did you or did you not confront someone while armed? If you drew just as the cops rolled up wouldn't you say it would be a good idea for them to know there was an armed homeowner involved in advance? You don't like being told you're wrong- do you? You effed up in several different ways on this one like it or not. Take some training.

I don't come here much, but, from the few topics I have read and commented on, the members here seem like a pretty level-headed group, not like other forums where 'my **** is bigger than yours' seems to be the subject du jour.

Until now. Do you really think it necessary to nit-pick at everything down to the freakin ATOMIC level?

I am not joining the discussion here, because I admit my ignorance on the subject of carry laws in other states. However, I will comment that some members of this board seem to have a little too much of their egos tied up in this thread.

Everyone, please chill. We are 'like-minded' individuals here, not adversaries.

Be smart. Be safe.