Legal updates....

[Sheldon]

From the Michigan State Police web site a PDF file that could be handy to have a copy of....

MCL 750.234d provides that it is a 90 day misdemeanor to possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

A depository financial institution (e.g., bank or credit union)

A church or other place of religious worship

A court

A theater

A sports arena

A day care center

A hospital

An establishment licensed under the Liquor Control Code


The above section does not apply to any of the following:

The owner or a person hired as security (if the firearm is possessed for the purpose of providing security)

A peace officer

A person with a valid concealed pistol license (CPL) issued by any state

A person who possesses on one of the above listed premises with the permission of the owner or owner’s agent
Officers must be aware of the above exemption for valid CPL holders as many of the citizens who openly carry firearms possess valid CPLs. An individual with a valid CPL may carry a non-concealed firearm in the above listed premises.
A CPL holder is not required by law to carry a pistol concealed. A CPL holder may carry a pistol concealed or non-concealed.

 

[nogods]

From the Michigan State Police web site a PDF file that could be handy to have a copy of....

The above section does not apply to any of the following: A person with a valid concealed pistol license (CPL) issued by any state

Does Michigan recognize all other state concealed carry permits? If not then how do I get my concealed weapon into a Michigan church or bank or other listed place without violating the law?

 

[Sheldon]

Does Michigan recognize all other state concealed carry permits? If not then how do I get my concealed weapon into a Michigan church or bank or other listed place without violating the law?

MI has reciprocity agreements with I believe 37 other states, you would have to go look up and see if your state CPL is honored but the likelihood of it being recognized is quite high, the MSP site has those states listed.
As to taking them in to areas that would normally be considered forbidden, the AG decision says you may OC in these areas if you have a valid CCW that is recognized by MI.

 

[scwcharlie]

MI has reciprocity agreements with I believe 37 other states, you would have to go look up and see if your state CPL is honored but the likelihood of it being recognized is quite high, the MSP site has those states listed.
As to taking them in to areas that would normally be considered forbidden, the AG decision says you may OC in these areas if you have a valid CCW that is recognized by MI.

2010/11/04 From Michigan State Police website:
Pistol Free Areas
Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:

Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian

Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.

Sports arena or stadium

A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises

Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons

An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more

A hospital

A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university

A Casino

"Premises" does not include the parking areas of the places listed above.

A pistol is subject to immediate seizure if the CCW permit holder is carrying a pistol in a "pistol free" area. The following penalties may also be imposed:
First offense: State Civil Infraction, $500 fine, CCW permit suspended 6 months
Second offense: 90-day misdemeanor, $1000 fine, CCW permit revoked
Third and subsequent offenses: 4-year felony, $5000 fine, CCW permit revoked

Furthermore, effective March 29, 2001, per Administrative Order 2001-1 of the Michigan Supreme Court:
"Weapons are not permitted in any courtroom, office, or other space used for official court business or by judicial employees unless the chief judge or other person designated by the chief judge has given prior approval consistent with the court's written policy."
================
Also, for clarification, reference to a "valid" permit, Michigan does NOT recognize a permit issued to a "non-resident" of the issuing state.

Question: What's the status of the legislation allowing for permit holders to carry in a "51% tavern/bar" if the permit holder is not consuming ANY alcohol?

Thanks,

Charlie

 

[Sheldon]

WRT CCW that is true but my post relates to people that have a valid Michigan recognized CCW who in turn can legally OC in these area's....:yu:

 

[Golden Eagle]

MSP are not lawyers, you should never trust a LEO's opinion of law. The link in the first post is the law
paraphrased. Some is made up.

Question: What's the status of the legislation allowing for permit holders to carry in a "51% tavern/bar" if the permit holder is not consuming ANY alcohol?

There isn't a 51% rule specifically, it's "primary source of income is alcohol." You can't conceal carry but you can open carry with your CPL.

Open carry legal without a license except these premises: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-234d

Can't conceal carry on these premises even with a Pistol License: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-425o

BTW nogods Mich does honer your NY license.

 

[scwcharlie]

Michigan pistol free area

Golden Eagle,
What I posted was copied and pasted verbatim from the Michigan State Police website "Pistol Free Areas".
The phrase about seizure is part of that copy and paste.

MSP - Pistol Free Areas

Also, I thought there was legislation submitted, perhaps a year ago, that would allow for concealed carry in bars if the person carrying was not consuming ANY alcohol. For me, and me alone, it makes no sense to "open carry" in a bar with the potential for a drinking patron, or other "bad guys", to "intrude" on my enjoyment of life. I prefer the element of surprise being on my side, not theirs. I was just wondering about the status of that bill but perhaps my memory is just being hopeful.

Charlie

 

[Golden Eagle]

Golden Eagle,
What I posted was copied and pasted verbatim from the Michigan State Police website "Pistol Free Areas".
The phrase about seizure is part of that copy and paste.

MSP - Pistol Free Areas

"some is made up" was not directed at you but the MSP.

Golden Eagle,Also, I thought there was legislation submitted, perhaps a year ago, that would allow for concealed carry in bars if the person carrying was not consuming ANY alcohol. For me, and me alone, it makes no sense to "open carry" in a bar with the potential for a drinking patron, or other "bad guys", to "intrude" on my enjoyment of life. I prefer the element of surprise being on my side, not theirs. I was just wondering about the status of that bill but perhaps my memory is just being hopeful.

Charlie

If there was legislation submitted, it was never fully passed. In my link above you can see in the current law you can not conceal in a bar. Sorry.

 

[scwcharlie]

"some is made up" was not directed at you but the MSP.

Didn't think you were directing it at me. My post was just an attempt at providing the source of the confiscation phrase.

If there was legislation submitted, it was never fully passed. In my link above you can see in the current law you can not conceal in a bar. Sorry.

I'm sorry too. Guess I keep writing to our "leadership".

Thanks,

Have a good, safe week.

Note: Haven't determined how to operate the split quotes. Somehow my response keeps becoming a part of your quote-sorry.

 

[Big Gay Al]

Does Michigan recognize all other state concealed carry permits? If not then how do I get my concealed weapon into a Michigan church or bank or other listed place without violating the law?

Michigan recognizes ALL other states' RESIDENT licenses/permits. Even those states that Michigan does not have a reciprocity agreement with. But, only RESIDENT permits/licenses. Michigan does not recognize non-resident licenses/permits. I presume because Michigan doesn't issue non-resident CPLs.

FYI, banks are ok for concealed carry with a CPL/CCW, but churches are not, unless you have permission of the person(s) in charge. Churches and other places of worship are listed as Pistol Free Zones in our CPL rules. What they listed at the beginning of this, are places you can't carry in the open, unless you have a CPL.

I know it's confusing, but In addition to those places, you can't carry concealed at them either. However, if you have a license to carry, then you can carry openly. Also, parking lots are exempted from the concealed pistol free zone laws.

Good luck figuring all that out. :biggrin:

 

[Sheldon]

As I said earlier the Michigan Attorney General rendered an opinion, any AG opinion is considered as having the weight as law unless specific laws can be sighted and submitted to the AG with an request for further rulings....

Yeah we got burned by that one a long time ago when a previous anti MI AG gave the opinion that black powder firearms should be registered despite the fact that MI law specifically stated they did not.....

 

[Big Gay Al]

As I said earlier the Michigan Attorney General rendered an opinion, any AG opinion is considered as having the weight as law unless specific laws can be sighted and submitted to the AG with an request for further rulings....

Yeah we got burned by that one a long time ago when a previous anti MI AG gave the opinion that black powder firearms should be registered despite the fact that MI law specifically stated they did not.....

Fortunately, that last part has been fixed by law. Thank the Gods and Goddesses. :wink:

 

[Sheldon]

Fortunately, that last part has been fixed by law. Thank the Gods and Goddesses. :wink:

When I think of all the money, time and effort that went into that.. I'm still trying to figure out why they simply did not ask for an new opinion from Mike....

 

[Big Gay Al]

When I think of all the money, time and effort that went into that.. I'm still trying to figure out why they simply did not ask for an new opinion from Mike....

Because opinions can be reversed a lot easier than laws. If Mike Cox had given an opinion that reversed Granholm's, it would simply have been a matter of time before some other AG, down the line reversed Cox's opinion.

Opinions are like underwear, the get changed all the time. Some when they need to, and others when they don't. Then again, others need it really bad, but are still there, stinking up everything. :biggrin: