"Law Abiding Citizen"??? MI Open Carry Law

[noels73]

How exactly is this defined?

 

[micpl]

How exactly is this defined?

Read everything here/link and it should answer your questions. BUT beware to distinguish between OC and CPL.

CPL,s can OC in a vehicle where OC cannot. There are differences in no carry zones also and it does get complicated. General OC is being done by some and I must admit that at first I thought it was a sure way to get in trouble. But as a CPL I find the option interesting after all. But my area in west MI is not up to speed yet so Im still taking caution.

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[noels73]

Read everything here/link and it should answer your questions. BUT beware to distinguish between OC and CPL.

CPL,s can OC in a vehicle where OC cannot. There are differences in no carry zones also and it does get complicated. General OC is being done by some and I must admit that at first I thought it was a sure way to get in trouble. But as a CPL I find the option interesting after all. But my area in west MI is not up to speed yet so Im still taking caution.

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Thanks for the response...I was reading the MCL that pertains to the Open Carry, and I was wondering how exactly "law abiding" citizen was defined in respect to the legality of OC?

 

[micpl]

Thanks for the response...I was reading the MCL that pertains to the Open Carry, and I was wondering how exactly "law abiding" citizen was defined in respect to the legality of OC?

Noels, if I understand you correctly then you could not appy "law abiding" to someone who doesnt meet the statute, ie, a felon, sex offender, domestic violence etc. The MI law makes it explicit that those aforenamed CANNOT OC.

Exactly then, what are you looking for?

 

[Yosimite sam]

How exactly is this defined?

Anomalous Open Carry States open carry in these states are generally lawful, but the state itself may have other stiff restrictions to deter citizens from carry a firearm open. The laws in these states are very grey and could cause you a lot of problems if you go toting a gun around openly. The states that have a lot of grey area on open carry are Washington, Oregon, Nevada, California, Colorado, Missouri, Kansas, Louisiana , Mississippi, Alabama, North Carolina, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Maine, Delaware and New Hampshire. You shouldn't carry open firearms in these states just to avoid a charge of bringing terror to the people which only requires a citizen to see you carry open firearms and saying they are in fear. You will get charged.

 

[emt232004]

Anomalous Open Carry States open carry in these states are generally lawful, but the state itself may have other stiff restrictions to deter citizens from carry a firearm open. The laws in these states are very grey and could cause you a lot of problems if you go toting a gun around openly. The states that have a lot of grey area on open carry are Washington, Oregon, Nevada, California, Colorado, Missouri, Kansas, Louisiana , Mississippi, Alabama, North Carolina, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Maine, Delaware and New Hampshire. You shouldn't carry open firearms in these states just to avoid a charge of bringing terror to the people which only requires a citizen to see you carry open firearms and saying they are in fear. You will get charged.

I disagree
"The Core of An Officer’s Ability to Detain A Person Who Openly Carries Mere Possession of a handgun in a non-exempted place is NOT PROBABLE CAUSE or REASONABLE SUSPICION of a crime. Unless a person who is openly carrying a handgun is engaged in activity which gives rise to a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity or probable cause, that person may not be detained by police. "

"Carrying a handgun itself does not support disorderly conduct. Brandishing occurs only when the person is waving the firearm around in a threatening manner.

Another person’s fear of the mere presence of a firearm does not make an assault. Also, do not rely on the enforcement of a local ordinance to trump the Constitution. If a person who is openly carrying a handgun is committing a crime or is in a prohibited place, or if the owner/agent of the premises wants the individual to leave, then officers have a legal reason to engage a subject and enforce the law which may be in process of being violated. Otherwise, a person carrying openly is no different from any other person in the same environment."

Lansing PD's memo on OC

 

[PaxMentis]

Anomalous Open Carry States open carry in these states are generally lawful, but the state itself may have other stiff restrictions to deter citizens from carry a firearm open. The laws in these states are very grey and could cause you a lot of problems if you go toting a gun around openly. The states that have a lot of grey area on open carry are Washington, Oregon, Nevada, California, Colorado, Missouri, Kansas, Louisiana , Mississippi, Alabama, North Carolina, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Maine, Delaware and New Hampshire. You shouldn't carry open firearms in these states just to avoid a charge of bringing terror to the people which only requires a citizen to see you carry open firearms and saying they are in fear. You will get charged.

What in the world do you see as "grey" in the Oregon laws? We have next to no limitations regarding carry by CCP holders and only a few cities up in the Portland area with city restrictions on non license holders. The state preempts any restrictions with regrad to license holders.

You badly misinterpret GATTOP, which requires a conscious act that would provoke fear in a normal person...and finding an Oregon jury (or even a judge or prosecutor) that would go for carrying a holstered weapon as such an act is as likely as winning the lottery. I don't believe I have ever heard of an Oregon GATTOP prosecution.

Granted more of us CC than OC here (it's just so darn cheap and easy to get a permit) But the only few OC hassles I ever hear of are in that extreme NW corner of the state that is actually more a continuation of the Seattle-Tacoma Peoples' State than it is Oregon...

:biggrin:

By the way...back to the original question...if Law Abiding Citizen is not otherwise defined in the statute, I would think it would be anyone who could legally own a gun.

 

[Itstjs]

Open carry is legal in Michigan, Yes, some officers love to harass individuals who OC, get on youtube and watch Kimberguy he has quite a few videos where he was harassed just because he was OCing. Some LEOs believe that just becasue your have a CPL, it means you give up your right to OC, which is NOT the case, it just means you have the option to CC or OC, both of which are legal, one with a permit, and OC w/o a CPL has restrictions, such as being in a vehicle w/o a CPL.
Either way, be careful, and be prepared to deal with BS from "frightened civilians" MY question is, when was the last time they seen a BG OC a pistol in a holster while eating some french fries? Just be polite if youre ever confronted by an LEO, cooperate, and if they hold you for a period of time [not the PD] make a complaint with the PD and the AG do not let it go unchecked. OC is a choice, its a right.
Michigan.gov has more info on OC and CC.

 

[Leader]

A "Law Abiding Citizen" in MI is one that is allowed by MI law to buy and carry a firearm.
We actually do not have an open carry law of any kind. What makes open carry legal is no laws prohibiting it.

 

[hopnpop]

FIRST AND FOREMOST, DON'T TAKE YOSEMITE SAM'S WORD FOR IT... it's inaccurate. I can't speak for many of the states he mentioned but I can positively speak for Michigan. Michigan isn't so gray. His statement of "you will get charged" is completely bogus. Myself and countless others have been regularly OCing in Michigan without incident. There are plenty of ways to get arrested and/or charged while OCing but OCing in itself, when "done properly", won't bring you any trouble. OC in Michigan in the past year has grown by leaps and bounds and has cleared many hurdles. It wasn't long ago that OC would undoubtedly bring you trouble but not today. When OCing it's still better to be knowledgable of relevent laws and know how to cover your arse but the whole OC issue has gotten so much attention and coverage in the past year that it's become increasingly rare to have a LEO encounter for merely OCing. Where there used to be much "gray" in Michigan firearm legislature, the open carry movement has essentially demanded clarity and has recieved it. There's still some gray in regards to CPL holders carrying openly in PFZs, but otherwise, it's all become pretty cut-and-dried.

 

[Pa Pa Smurf]

FIRST AND FOREMOST, DON'T TAKE YOSEMITE SAM'S WORD FOR IT... it's inaccurate. I can't speak for many of the states he mentioned but I can positively speak for Michigan. Michigan isn't so gray. His statement of "you will get charged" is completely bogus. Myself and countless others have been regularly OCing in Michigan without incident. There are plenty of ways to get arrested and/or charged while OCing but OCing in itself, when "done properly", won't bring you any trouble. OC in Michigan in the past year has grown by leaps and bounds and has cleared many hurdles. It wasn't long ago that OC would undoubtedly bring you trouble but not today. When OCing it's still better to be knowledgable of relevent laws and know how to cover your arse but the whole OC issue has gotten so much attention and coverage in the past year that it's become increasingly rare to have a LEO encounter for merely OCing. Where there used to be much "gray" in Michigan firearm legislature, the open carry movement has essentially demanded clarity and has recieved it. There's still some gray in regards to CPL holders carrying openly in PFZs, but otherwise, it's all become pretty cut-and-dried.

I agree with hopnpop, DON'T TAKE YOSIMITE SAM'S WORD
I open carry every where allowed, even some PFZ! I have open carried in a hospital in michigan, with no problems. Yes, I do have a CPL. We also have had people OC into schools.:sarcastic:

 

[handgonnetoter]

What I would like to know is about what time frame, in history, did OC become such a big thing? In the old west it seems like anybody who was somebody carried a six-gun on the hip, so what gives? It must have started about the time that people started to create suburbia. I live in suburbia because my wife likes it that way. I would like to live in Montana! :sarcastic:

 

[hopnpop]

What I would like to know is about what time frame, in history, did OC become such a big thing? In the old west it seems like anybody who was somebody carried a six-gun on the hip, so what gives? It must have started about the time that people started to create suburbia. I live in suburbia because my wife likes it that way. I would like to live in Montana! :sarcastic:

I'm sure there are a few theories on that. Suburbs probably play a part. Local ordinances probably had a lot to do with it too. I imagine people sought a place to live where not everyone carried a 6-shooter, and jurisdictions and ordinances were put into effect to pacify those people. That prospect of "safe" towns where guns were disallowed probably gained momentum and people started leaving their guns at home more often, and it went downhill from there. That's my initial theory I guess. Sounds logical. The carry of pistols probably just dwindled and grew out of favor. Thank goodness for preemption, right? In the past couple/few years there have been countless unenforcable ordinances prohibiting firearms that have been taken off the books in Michigan alone! Many of these towns and cities thought their firearm prohibitions were enforcable! With preemption from the US and state constitutions, we've been able to get these ordinances off the books. Remember, squeaky wheels get the grease.

 

[Itstjs]

Law Abiding Citizen is usually defined as one person who has not had any felony charges, and can legally obtain a CPL