Last weekend in Vermont

Boston Boy

Boston Boy

New member
I took my 16-year old son to VT for the weekend, staying at a friend's cabin in the boonies. As soon as we hit the border from NH, I stopped the car, we both got out, and I gave him a holstered CZ-82 to hang from his belt. While he's had numerous trips to the range, and has been shooting for about four years, this was the first time he's ever been "strapped." We stopped at Wallyworld for provisions and supplies, where he constantly tugged at his belt. He had no inkling that I was going to "allow" him to open carry, nevermind carry at all. I remember how it was for me when I first carried, but that was in Nam, where everyone and their mother was armed. On our next trip (in Sept. for a gunshow), if he asks, I'll bring his grandfather's WWII 1911A1, which has a 70 year family history, but he's gonna have to hitch his belt tighter or his pants will journey south!
 
What I think is funny is how lenient the law on a minor is. Under VT law a parent who furnishes a gun to a person under 16-years-old is only subjected to a $50 fine.
 
BC1 said:
What I think is funny is how lenient the law on a minor is. Under VT law a parent who furnishes a gun to a person under 16-years-old is only subjected to a $50 fine.
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Matter of fact, an under sixteen can carry with parental permission. But I think the cutoff is fifteen, but I could be wrong.
 
Boston Boy said:
I took my 16-year old son to VT for the weekend, staying at a friend's cabin in the boonies. As soon as we hit the border from NH, I stopped the car, we both got out, and I gave him a holstered CZ-82 to hang from his belt. While he's had numerous trips to the range, and has been shooting for about four years, this was the first time he's ever been "strapped." We stopped at Wallyworld for provisions and supplies, where he constantly tugged at his belt. He had no inkling that I was going to "allow" him to open carry, nevermind carry at all. I remember how it was for me when I first carried, but that was in Nam, where everyone and their mother was armed. On our next trip (in Sept. for a gunshow), if he asks, I'll bring his grandfather's WWII 1911A1, which has a 70 year family history, but he's gonna have to hitch his belt tighter or his pants will journey south!
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Be very careful. You violated Federal law, 18 USC 922 (x). Is it really worth it to take the chance of you both losing your firearms rights?
 
"Be very careful. You violated Federal law, 18 USC 922 (x). Is it really worth it to take the chance of you both losing your firearms rights?"

I believe this restriction excludes parents or guardians. Right!
 
Boston Boy said:
"Be very careful. You violated Federal law, 18 USC 922 (x). Is it really worth it to take the chance of you both losing your firearms rights?"

I believe this restriction excludes parents or guardians. Right!
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Respectfully, no. All of the conditions (i) through (iv) below must be met for a person <18 years to be provided with a handgun (see the "and" between (iii) and (iv)):

(3) This subsection does not apply to—

(A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile or to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile if the handgun and ammunition are possessed and used by the juvenile—

(i) in the course of employment, in the course of ranching or farming related to activities at the residence of the juvenile (or on property used for ranching or farming at which the juvenile, with the permission of the property owner or lessee, is performing activities related to the operation of the farm or ranch), target practice, hunting, or a course of instruction in the safe and lawful use of a handgun;

(ii) with the prior written consent of the juvenile’s parent or guardian who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local law from possessing a firearm, except—

(I) during transportation by the juvenile of an unloaded handgun in a locked container directly from the place of transfer to a place at which an activity described in clause (i) is to take place and transportation by the juvenile of that handgun, unloaded and in a locked container, directly from the place at which such an activity took place to the transferor; or
(II) with respect to ranching or farming activities as described in clause (i), a juvenile may possess and use a handgun or ammunition with the prior written approval of the juvenile’s parent or legal guardian and at the direction of an adult who is not prohibited by Federal, State or local law from possessing a firearm;

(iii) the juvenile has the prior written consent in the juvenile’s possession at all times when a handgun is in the possession of the juvenile; and

(iv) in accordance with State and local law;
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You did not meet (i) because you weren't at the location of the activity and the gun was not being transported in a case.
You did not meet (ii) because your permission was not given to your son in writing.
You did not meet (iii) because your son did not have written permission in his possession.
You did, however, meet (iv).

Here's the prohibition from the statute:

(x)
(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
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And here is the definition of juvenile from the statute:

(5) For purposes of this subsection, the term “juvenile” means a person who is less than 18 years of age.
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Source:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

Thoughts?
 
golocx4 said:
State law preempts Federal law.
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Civics 101 class. A state can make a law declaring something illegal that is legal at the Federal level. However, a state cannot make something legal that is prohibited by Federal law. The Federal National Firearms Act is a fine example. Can a state just pass a law that makes the manufacture and possession of new machine guns legal? NO. Or could Florida make Cuban cigars legal? NO.
 
You have a 16 year old son and you are a Vietnam veteran? Get a late start with the family? :p

Whatever the law, I think it was pretty cool :cool:

I have a 15 year old and he loves to shoot my benelli tactical 12 ga.
 
Just for the heck of it, I called a friend in Vermont to ask about this. He is a LEO near Burlington, and his answer was that an 18 year old can carry a handgun and a 16 year old can have a long gun in possession. But that the handgun at 18 applies only to Vermont residents. Adults from anywhere can carry in Vermont, but some places are not as open carry friendly as others. There's probably something in the state law section that would explain it better.
 
JohnD13 said:
Just for the heck of it, I called a friend in Vermont to ask about this. He is a LEO near Burlington, and his answer was that an 18 year old can carry a handgun and a 16 year old can have a long gun in possession. But that the handgun at 18 applies only to Vermont residents. Adults from anywhere can carry in Vermont, but some places are not as open carry friendly as others. There's probably something in the state law section that would explain it better.
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Maybe if you look in state law, you will get an ACCURATE answer, rather than a LEO's erroneous opinion. First, Vermont statute sets the possession age limit at 16, not 18. Second, Vermont statute makes no mention of being required to be a resident. What the Vermont statute does is set the lower age limit for possession of a handgun, which is possessed legally in accordance with the EXCEPTIONS contained in the Federal law. There is no lower age limit for possession of a handgun in accordance with the EXCEPTIONS contained in the Federal. Since Vermont does not want an 8 year old kid carrying a handgun while riding a tractor with written permission of his/her dad in their possession, which would be completely legal according to Federal law - Vermont law establishes the lower age limit at 16 - for residents and non-residents alike. However, handing a 16 year old child a handgun to strap on and carry in the convenience store in no way complies with any of the exceptions in Federal law and is still a violation of that Federal law.

Never ask LEO for legal advice. All you will get is the person's opinion of the phone, which is worth exactly the same as the opinions expressed here, which may, or may not agree with what the statute actually says. Have a nice day!

The Vermont Statutes Online

§ 4007. Furnishing firearms to children
A person, firm or corporation, other than a parent or guardian, who sells or furnishes to a minor under the age of 16 years a firearm or other dangerous weapon or ammunition for firearms shall be fined not more than $50.00 nor less than $10.00. This section shall not apply to an instructor or teacher who furnishes firearms to pupils for instruction and drill.

The Vermont Statutes Online


§ 4008. Possession of firearms by children
A child under the age of 16 years shall not, without the consent of his or her parents or guardian, have in his or her possession or control a pistol or revolver constructed or designed for the use of gunpowder or other explosive substance with leaden ball or shot. A child who violates a provision of this section shall be deemed a delinquent child under the provisions of chapter 52 of Title 33.
 
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