Last night I had to draw my weapon to defend myself...


Jerry

New member
Glad to see it went well... I can relate on the pit chewing on shoes :icon_wink:, all it takes is my GF's pit to get bored and atleast one pair of shoes is down for the count.
This reminds me of something that happened yesterday outside of my GF's appartment, where some guy was just pacing the parking lot outside with his hood up. We pulled in the lot, drove on by to my apartment, unloaded groceries, then we drove back to park infront of hers. He was still there, staring at the car as we pulled in. I stepped out first and stared him down as she got out and headed for the door. The guy decided to back off some, then finally left. It was daylight, but being spring break, alot of people aren't home (on campus housing), and he could have easily been scoping out who was home/who wasn't.
I also had a mexican pull a knife on me and demand my wallet back when i was in high school... He ended up running away too.
Sorry to hi-jack, glad it didn't escalate and you were the one to come upon them and not someone who would have been an easy target.
 

hwhite1725

New member
**Update**

Well, after a very busy weekend and a good nights rest I have news to report and some questions to answer.

Did the police have anything to say about you drawing your weapon? Did they ask to see your permit?

I was fortunate in that the two responding officers were the regulars from the area who I had made it a point of introducing myself to previously (so they already new about my CCW and didn't request to see it). It's always good to know the local LEO's. Their reaction was actually quite similar to everyone on here, they said good job on the situational awareness and that they would have reacted the same way. :bier:

You didn't mention which you were packing, other than flipping off the safety which leads me to believe it was a 1911.

At the time I was carrying my Kimber Pro Carry.

Well, since I haven't had a chance to get to the leasing office since the incident, I wrote them a letter and left it in the overnight rent drop. I'm hoping to get over there this afternoon so I can talk to them personally. Maybe I'll try and get a neighborhood watch started.....
 

PascalFleischman

New member
Well, since I haven't had a chance to get to the leasing office since the incident, I wrote them a letter and left it in the overnight rent drop. I'm hoping to get over there this afternoon so I can talk to them personally. Maybe I'll try and get a neighborhood watch started.....

That's if they don't kick you out for being a danger to the complex...you know how bad those guns are!

Glad to hear everything turned out, alright, though. I'm especially glad you deedent have to pool ze treegor oonteel eet goes cleeek.
 

toreskha

Titles are un-American.
Good job and good self-control!

Thugs disgust me. Hopefully those particular ones will fall off a cliff or something.
 

mace85

New member
You think that stories rough...

The other night I went with two of my brothers to my friends place to fix a leak under his sink. We worked all night, but we had to to keep the leak from damaging his carpet and drywall. Well we got out at about a quarter till 1 in the morning. Well my one brother notices his car has gotten broken into while we were inside. While he was waiting for the police to respond to his call he lit a cigarette. About 5 minutes later I was walking down to him with the left over material from the plumbing job to throw it in the car and I accidentally stepped out in front of this crazy gun walking his dog. The dog went freaking nuts and started barking at me. The the dude pulled a gun on me. I froze and then finally realized what had happened. When I came to I ran like hell to get out of there. The police never did follow up on my report. I went back the next day to pick up my car. Never did get the pipe back.

So you drew your gun because there were two people, one of them was carrying a pipe. He never made any threatening gestures or raised it to strike per your quote "in front of me about 10 yards away with a very obvious pipe in his hand." The people were hispanic and your dog barked. Ok, so the auto glass might or might not be an indicator. But that at most amounts to a property crime, hardly a justification for a use of lethal force. I will give you that a man with a pipe inside your boundary might be enough to raise your awareness levels. Creating distance would be a good tactical move, but I think presentation is a little early. Best care scenario, you walk away like you did, worst case scenario you just assaulted that guy. Now if he made a threatening motion with the pipe, then game on. But all that your post stated was there was one guy smoking a cigarette, another with a pipe, and another who just appeared. Where exactly was the threat ?
 
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PascalFleischman

New member
I believe that in Virginia, their Castle Doctrine justifies them lethal response if a person has a REASONABLE fear for their life. In this case, he prefaces his story with the fact that crime problems in his area of town aren't uncommon. I understand your scenario, and it could cause us to second guess the man. However, nothing in this story indicates to me that he did the wrong thing. Had I been at the end of a guy's drawn firearm, I certainly wouldn't make any brash moves (like turning and running)...I'd attempt to diffuse the situation by talking the guy down....because I hadn't done anything wrong. Guilty people run.

Sounds like the cops had this guy's back, too. I think he's right, further evidenced by the fact that they didn't take HIM into custody because two Hispanic guys reported a crazy dog-walker with a gun. I think we all appreciate your new outlook on things, but the details seem to tell the rest of the story.
 

mace85

New member
In all reality the guys were probably crminals, and didn't report it. However I do think that if they did report it, and maybe they were the victims of a vehicle burglary then the OP would be in custody. My point is, there was no way for him to know. Just because there is a high crime area, doesn't mean everybody he contacts is a criminal. Like I stated before, if the pipe started moving in a threatening manner, or the guys started to approach him in a threatening manner, game on. But It sounds like the only two reasons the gun was drawn is because a pipe was there and they were hispanic.

Reasonable is a sticky word. Reasonable is usually decided by a jury. Which means there is possibly a panel of 12 liberal whack jobs deciding how reasonable your actions with the big bad gun are. Which is why any of us have to make sure that when the gun leaves the holster we are damned sure we have a bullet proof justification. Often times when I visit gun boards I get the impression that people view the castle doctrine as a get out of jail free card. That is scary. That is not what the castle doctrine is. It makes things the way they should be or law abiding people, it is not a vigilante license, nor does it lower the threat level in which people could use or threaten the use of deadly force. In most states it simply shifts the burden of proof, it doesn't change anything other than that.
 

toreskha

Titles are un-American.
You think that stories rough...

The other night I went with two of my brothers to my friends place to fix a leak under his sink. We worked all night, but we had to to keep the leak from damaging his carpet and drywall. Well we got out at about a quarter till 1 in the morning. Well my one brother notices his car has gotten broken into while we were inside. While he was waiting for the police to respond to his call he lit a cigarette. About 5 minutes later I was walking down to him with the left over material from the plumbing job to throw it in the car and I accidentally stepped out in front of this crazy gun walking his dog. The dog went freaking nuts and started barking at me. The the dude pulled a gun on me. I froze and then finally realized what had happened. When I came to I ran like hell to get out of there. The police never did follow up on my report. I went back the next day to pick up my car. Never did get the pipe back.
That sounds like Crash...which is a great movie, btw. :icon_wink:

However, there is a difference between someone carrying plumbing supplies and someone who has a single, tactical-length pipe in a forward grip. There's also a significant difference in body language between someone who is walking purposefully towards a car, and someone who is moving from a stationary position which may have partially concealed them.

Although I tend to be strongly in favor of extraction whenever possible, doing so with one or more dogs (especially when they're angry) can be difficult. Dogs don't back up easily, turning around would make one's back vulnerable, and the whole layout is not ideal for easily removing oneself from the situation. You also have to watch that you don't entangle yourself in the leashes in your movements. I once had an ankle-biter cut a gash in my leg with its stupid leash.

Sensing the threat, pulling the gun, and providing himself with enough instantaneous distance to be able to move safely was probably the best strategy. The threat wasn't a singular instance; it was more like something that followed from the pattern of behavior that was being exhibited. Spend some time in the ghetto at night and you'll see a lot of incredibly interesting patterns of people moving around and using a variety of signaling methods that is as complex as any legitimate business.
 

xd.40

XD.40
I believe that in Virginia, their Castle Doctrine justifies them lethal response if a person has a REASONABLE fear for their life. In this case, he prefaces his story with the fact that crime problems in his area of town aren't uncommon. I understand your scenario, and it could cause us to second guess the man. However, nothing in this story indicates to me that he did the wrong thing. Had I been at the end of a guy's drawn firearm, I certainly wouldn't make any brash moves (like turning and running)...I'd attempt to diffuse the situation by talking the guy down....because I hadn't done anything wrong. Guilty people run.

Sounds like the cops had this guy's back, too. I think he's right, further evidenced by the fact that they didn't take HIM into custody because two Hispanic guys reported a crazy dog-walker with a gun. I think we all appreciate your new outlook on things, but the details seem to tell the rest of the story.

Virginia Doesn't have a "Castle Doctrine" law per se; the justification of deadly force is based on case law. If you feel your life, or the life of another, is in eminent danger, you have the right to use any force up to, and including, deadly force. Another aspect of this (which I'm glad to hear that it didn't go this way) is using deadly force, or even brandishing, is illegal to defend private property in Va. ( http://www.virginia1774.org/Page5.html )

HWhite1785 - Have you contacted the VCDL about this issue, too? It would make a good story for one of the VA-Alerts ( www.vcdl.org )
 

hoverman

New member
-1 for overly dramatic story relation.


Did the guy come at you? or did he just come out with a pipe? If he was positively comming at you, +1 for a good reaction. If you just interrupted something, and he wasn't moving DIRECTLY AT YOU WITH INTENT, -1

Overall, glad you weren't hurt and came out "the other side" O.K. :icon_great:
 

hwhite1725

New member
Ok, maybe I didn't do a clear job of describing the final threat of action. Firstly, the guy with the pipe was not next to the car whose window had been smashed so he had either heard me coming and moved closer or he was doing something else (I only assumed he had smashed the window, he may have just been waiting to jump someone), secondly, my dog growled, and then he came out from between the two parked cars. When he came forward it was aggressively and quickly and he was definitely holding the pipe in an offensive manner. I still have no doubt that at that moment he meant to do me harm. Besides, what normal person heads straight toward an agitated dog that is obviously growling at them?

Sorry it took so long for me to post this response but I have been extremely busy this week and haven't had a chance to read the other posts until today.
 

PascalFleischman

New member
Hey, Bro....I've got your back on this one. Only you know exactly how this all went down, and I don't question your judgement at all. I'm glad you clairifed the issue for all the doubters out there, and I hope everything is going well. do you have any updates on the case yet?
 

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