LaCrosse, Wisconsin . Mall.

[Jeffrey Zitzner]

So I am sitting in the food court and this security guard comes up and started talking about motorcycles with us. He started talking about this guy who had a shotgun in the parking lot the other day. I said yeh so what is his point. He said we are on private property and no weapons are allowed. I am not sure how that works? I said I see no signage posted any where?? He started to tell me the owner said no weapons or ccw's allowed on property. Signs mean nothing in his eyes. Am I wrong to believe he is incorrect in his thinking? I always thought according to Gov. Walker is you post signs it makes the owner of property liable if anything was to happen.
My wife pipes up and says well if anything was to happen I would feel much better if I was next to my husband because he goes no where with out his. The gaurd had a o crap look on his face. He did a little banter back and fourth with me. I went and showed him some apps on I Phone and he downloaded and went on his way. I walked out then a young man in street cloths walks up and he was released from work for not calling the police on me. I felt bad. Am I wrong in me interpitation of the law? Thanks Jeff Z

 

[GB-Boater]

Notice that it doesn't mention a sign being required. If they ask you to remove the weapon, you must do so.

The law permits certain owners and occupants of property to prohibit persons from carrying a concealed firearm in or on the property. A person may be subject to a Class B forfeiture if he or she carries a firearm on the property after being notified not to remain on the property or remain with a specific type of firearm. In the latter case, a property owner can prohibit a person form possessing a specific type of firearm on their property or any firearm.
Wis. Stat. § 943.13(1m)(b)

 

[Jeffrey Zitzner]

State of Wisconsin Concealed Carry Law
There are many questions and concerns regarding the new concealed carry law in Wisconsin. The law
becomes effective on November 1, 2011. The Wisconsin Department of Justice has put together a
document that answers a lot of the frequently asked questions from persons wishing to carry and business
trying to decide what to allow. You will find this document at:
Link Removed. You can also
visit the Wisconsin Department of Justice website at:
Link Removed for the most up to date
information.
Below is an excerpt from the frequently asked questions document regarding posting of signs at
businesses.
NOTICE OF REFUSAL OF RIGHT TO CARRY CONCEALED
While the specific statutory sections of the new law as noted above, only reference notices regarding
firearms, property owners possess the general right to limit or condition access to their property. This
would include prohibitions or limits on possessing dangerous weapons other than firearms. Therefore,
the sign requirements discussed below can provide a reasonable basis for providing notice to persons of
any weapons restrictions.
What kind of notice must be given to a CCW license holder regarding any prohibitions on carrying
concealed weapons?
Notice of statutorily prohibited locations is provided by statute and to the licensee on the license
application and no other notice or sign is required for those locations. Notice for other locations can be
provided verbally or in writing or if the land is posted by a sign meeting certain criteria. Wis. Stat. §
943.13(2)(am)
Where are signs required?
For non single family residences (e.g. apartment, condos, etc): A sign must be located in a prominent
place near all of the entrances to the part of the building to which the restriction applies or near all
probable access points to the grounds to which the regulation applies and the individual entering the
building or grounds can be reasonably expected to see the sign. Wis. Stat. § 943.13(2)(bm)2.a.
For non-residential buildings, state or governmental property or university or college: A sign must be
posted in a prominent place near all of the entrances to the part of the building to which the restriction
applies and any individual entering the building can be reasonably expected to see the sign. Wis. Stat. §
943.13(2)(bm)2.b.
For the grounds of a nonresidential building or land: A sign must be posted in a prominent place near all
probable access points to the grounds or land to which the restriction applies and any individual entering
the grounds or land can be reasonably expected to see the sign. Wis. Stat. § 943.13(2)(bm)2.am.
For special events: A sign must be posted in a prominent place near all of the entrances to the special
event and the individual attending the special event can be reasonably expected to see the sign. Wis. Stat.
§ 943.13(2)(bm)2.c.
For posting land: A sign must be posted that is located in a prominent place near all probable access
points to the grounds or land to which the restriction applies and any individual entering the grounds or
land can be reasonably expected to see the sign. Wis. Stat. § 943.13(2)(bm)2b.
How big of a sign must be used?
A sign must be at least five inches by seven inches that states the restriction on carrying a firearm. Wis.
Stat. § 943.13(2)(bm)1.What must the sign say?
In regard to posting land, the law only provides that the sign must provide an “appropriate notice” and the
name of the person giving the notice (listing self as either the owner of occupant). Wis. Stats. §
943.13(2)am1. In regard to other locations the sign must simply state the restriction imposed. Wis. Stats.
§ 943.13(2)(bm)1. At a minimum the sign must inform people that weapons or firearms are prohibited.
There are a number of messages that would meet the standard and the ultimate purpose of the sign is to
put individuals on notice of the prohibition or limitation.

 

[Jeffrey Zitzner]

But a sign has to be posted

 

[disneyr]

In Nevada even if they have a sign on private property, if they see your firearm or find out you have one from a loose lipped spouse or friend, all they can do is tell you to leave and if you don't they can "trespass you" and call the police. If you just leave when they ask you to leave there are no legal problems. Is that not the case in Wisconsin? For example, if a store owner has a "No Guns or CCW" sign at the door, is it an actual crime if you have a firearm on the property?

 

[BUmmedic]

In Wisconsin, if the signage is legal (5x7 inches and posted at every entry point to the building), then they carry the force of law and you are committing a crime by possessing a "weapon" on the premises.

That being said, even with no sign, a business owner or private citizen may wish to prohibit firearms on his property, and if you are notified of this prohibition, you must leave or you may face a trespassing charge if the police are notified.

That is my understanding. I always look for signs, and do not patronize where posted.

I havevread on a Wisconsin-specific forum that situations of plausible deniability can exist in some cases. For example... the Scheel's in Eau Claire is part of the Oakwood Mall. You can obviously purchase firearms and carry legally in this establishment, and as such, their entry is not posted. They have an entrance directly into the mall which is also not posted. Therefore, the signage posted at every other mall entrance is not lawfully binding, as "all" entry points are not posted. So if confronted (again, concealed is concealed, so no one should know unless an incident happens or someone "pipes up"... or maybe you decided to open carry that day), you can state that you were unaware of the restriction, as you entered the premises through Scheel's and there wasn't any signage. You'll likely be asked to leave at that point, and will again be facing a trespassing charge if you do not comply and the police are called.

 

[Totidem Verbis]

Trespass

But a sign has to be posted

No, it's not required.

Signs serve as evidence against you in court that you were forewarn regarding the owner wishes about being on his property. But it is their option to call in a sworn officer of the state to eject you from the property for trespassing. The reason doesn't matter.

 

[birdman46g]

When the OP was told by the security guard that no guns allowed after the guard found out you had a gun you should have left NOW. Since you didnt and the guard didnt follow through with having you removed from the property i am sure his boss wasnt very happy when he found out what happened. Here in Wisconsin if no sign is seen or posted and a rep of the owner ( guard ) asked you to leave and you dont your in trouble or at least should be if the guard calls the LEO.

 

[Deserteagle]

I would get your wife some training in how to not give away your gun.

 

[GB-Boater]

It is my understanding that a verbal warning carries the same weight as a posted sign.

I also agree you need to have a talk with your wife. Concealed is concealed, until you are forced to draw no one should ever know.

My wife doesn't want to know if I have it with or not, and wouldn't say a word. If you have kids, they really don't need to know when you carry, they do need to know when not to speak.

 

[disneyr]

In Wisconsin, if the signage is legal (5x7 inches and posted at every entry point to the building), then they carry the force of law and you are committing a crime by possessing a "weapon" on the premises.

That being said, even with no sign, a business owner or private citizen may wish to prohibit firearms on his property, and if you are notified of this prohibition, you must leave or you may face a trespassing charge if the police are notified.

That is my understanding. I always look for signs, and do not patronize where posted.

I havevread on a Wisconsin-specific forum that situations of plausible deniability can exist in some cases. For example... the Scheel's in Eau Claire is part of the Oakwood Mall. You can obviously purchase firearms and carry legally in this establishment, and as such, their entry is not posted. They have an entrance directly into the mall which is also not posted. Therefore, the signage posted at every other mall entrance is not lawfully binding, as "all" entry points are not posted. So if confronted (again, concealed is concealed, so no one should know unless an incident happens or someone "pipes up"... or maybe you decided to open carry that day), you can state that you were unaware of the restriction, as you entered the premises through Scheel's and there wasn't any signage. You'll likely be asked to leave at that point, and will again be facing a trespassing charge if you do not comply and the police are called.

Understood. Good explanation. Scheel's is a great store! We have on here in Reno/Sparks, NV. Love it.

 

[OleSlewFoot]

In Wisconsin, if the signage is legal (5x7 inches and posted at every entry point to the building), then they carry the force of law and you are committing a crime by possessing a "weapon" on the premises.

That being said, even with no sign, a business owner or private citizen may wish to prohibit firearms on his property, and if you are notified of this prohibition, you must leave or you may face a trespassing charge if the police are notified.

Basically, if you are conceal carrying, or open carrying for that matter, on a property, and the owner does not like the idea but has not posted it, then they must verbally tell you. At that point, you need to leave or they can call the cops on you. I don't bother to go back and patronize that business but if you want to, then you have to leave your firearm outside the property. My understanding is that they have to inform you that you are not welcome to carry the firearm on their property and give you an opportunity to comply, the owner of said property can't get you in trouble by calling the police without out first giving you notice.

With that said, there will probably be those that call the police on you before they talk to you but you can't get a citation if you have not been notified first. Again, that is my interpretation of the law.

 

[caburian]

Private Properties does not need a sign.

look at it as your own front yard, if someone is standing on your front door with a shotgun. You think the guy will tell say you cant tell him to get off your property because there is no sign?
mall's are owned by private citizens and they make their own house rules, if your asked to leave, you leave or a power hungry mall security will pepper spray you, and don't you think your self defense rights are protected when your the one trespassing.
most states.. CCW permits are not honored within a private property which is not controlled by the state, so it would be a big problem if cops arrest you, easy way to get your CCW revoked and probably never be issued one again.

 

[spdracr39]

Gun or no gun if the owner or a representative of the owner ( employee or subcontractor) asks you to leave private property for any reason or even no reason you need to leave or you are trespassing. If you don't agree with the reasoning don't go back. If you do go back comply with their wishes.

 

[Andrew49417]

It sounds like no one did anything wrong except the employer. If the OP left after the guard told him no guns, what was the problem? That does not warrant a crybaby call to the police. Also, how did the employer even find out?

 

[tricolordad]

In Wisconsin, if the signage is legal (5x7 inches and posted at every entry point to the building), then they carry the force of law and you are committing a crime by possessing a "weapon" on the premises.

That being said, even with no sign, a business owner or private citizen may wish to prohibit firearms on his property, and if you are notified of this prohibition, you must leave or you may face a trespassing charge if the police are notified.

That is my understanding. I always look for signs, and do not patronize where posted.

I havevread on a Wisconsin-specific forum that situations of plausible deniability can exist in some cases. For example... the Scheel's in Eau Claire is part of the Oakwood Mall. You can obviously purchase firearms and carry legally in this establishment, and as such, their entry is not posted. They have an entrance directly into the mall which is also not posted. Therefore, the signage posted at every other mall entrance is not lawfully binding, as "all" entry points are not posted. So if confronted (again, concealed is concealed, so no one should know unless an incident happens or someone "pipes up"... or maybe you decided to open carry that day), you can state that you were unaware of the restriction, as you entered the premises through Scheel's and there wasn't any signage. You'll likely be asked to leave at that point, and will again be facing a trespassing charge if you do not comply and the police are called.

but now they are going to fix that loophole which is why i never brought it up and I was just there yesterday afternoon. Thank the OP on that forum for all of us who will soon be disarmed at the only mall in 100 miles to allow carry, even if inadverdently.