Knowing Your Invisible Line ~ When to draw your weapon.

[rudiepop]

The invisible line is the point in your mind when you decide to draw your weapon and shoot. How do you define that line? Is that line always the same? How do I determine where my line is?

These are important questions that everyone should be able to answer if they carry a firearm for self-defense. If your line is not clearly defined you could draw and shoot too quick resulting in innocent people being harmed and legal action against you. On the other hand you could draw too late and loose your life in a violent encounter. The ability to properly define that line in your own life is crucial to keeping you and your loved ones alive and you out of jail.

The key to understanding this is to recognize that your line may be different from mine. You are the only person that can determine where that line is drawn, and if I may suggest, in some instances, the line must be fluid. Let me give you a few examples.

When I was single with no one depending on me for anything I would tend to take more chances and tolerate more danger before I chose to take action. (young and ignorant) If someone threatened me they were only threatening ME. Now I have a wife and three children and my perspective has changed a bit. I now feel that any threat to me is a direct threat to my family, a threat to leave my wife a widow and leave my children fatherless. No parent will tolerate a threat to his or her children. That changes the rules. It also helps me to more clearly define that invisible line.

All scenarios will require you to adjust that line on the fly and since most violent encounters are over in a matter of seconds this line of thinking should be automatic. For instance: Some stranger grabs your child and holds a gun to their head. You can’t draw your weapon without putting your child in danger. The line has already been crossed yet you still have a tactical advantage of having a concealed weapon that the bad guy does not know about. If you OC your response will be different. You should be thinking … ok, if he does this, I am going to do this. That is the invisible line, the point in time where action is demanded.

The idea is to always be aware of the crucial time to act. You must determine the instant that your life is threatened and be prepared to act.

Please give some input, ideas, experiences etc. This is an important topic that we all should be thinking about.

 

[Treo]

First let me say, paragraphs are our friends.

That said, the invisible line is very clearly marked for me; when you can clearly articulate what the bad guy did that caused you enough fear for your life that you felt the need for a gun then, you draw

 

[Compadre]

Good post. I'm convinced that, for most of us, formal training is the only assured way of being truly prepared for life or death situations. While some may rise to the occasion in spite of their lack of training, most events like that end in tragedy. That goes for medical emergencies too. We all should know CPR and basic first aid and refresh our knowledge regularly. Just my $0.02.

 

[Irishcopper]

I believe that realistic tactical training is the best way to learn how to determine if deadly force is justified during an encounter with a potential bad guy. I recommend that you train like you fight and never take "breaking leather" for granted. If you draw your weapon on someone it had better be because you perceive a threat to your life or someone elses. It's pointless and dangerous to draw your weapon if you aren't planning on shooting the threat. Most thugs have seen the business end of a firearm before and aren't easily intimidated. I tell persepctive firearms owners not to purchase a handgun if they aren't willing to shoot someone to defend their life. It's a responsibility that we must all take very seriously!

Cops don't fire warning shots on the street and neither should civilians. If the threat is real and your life is genuinely in danger draw your weapon like you've practiced and point shoot center mass at the threat. If the threat is so far away that you have to use your sights unless they have a long gun they may not be an actually be a threat that justifies use of deadly force. If they aren't and you shoot them you will have to explain that to a grand jury. Grand jury indictments are NEVER good and should be avoided at all costs! Learn what the laws are in your state and what justifies a good shoot.

I'm a big proponent of "body armor" drills on the range; "two rounds to the chest and one to the head". If you practice this routinely you can get exceptionally proficient at this technique. If the threat goes down and stops moving don't take it for granted they have been killed or incapacitated. They may be playing "Opossum". Scan the area for other potential threats and seek cover and maintain visual contact with the bad guy while you call for the "cavalry". If you have another magazine or speed loader perform a tactical reload while keeping your weapon pointed in the direction of the threat once you have sought cover. If you perform a tactical reload don't forget one of the basic rules "Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot". If you are a civilian and he gets up and runs he's not your problem, but at least try to see where he goes and be a good witness. If he attempts to engage you or return fire he's fair game. I recommend lighting him up like a Roman candle because he evidently didn't learn the first time you shot at him.

 

[trophyhunter]

Im a firm believer that all the training in the world, Will not prepare you for that moment. Instinct takes over, please dont get me wrong training is a good thing. The more you train, The more your Muscle skills will devolpe. The human mind is very complexed. As humans, We have tried to understand how it works and even with the advances we have made. we still only use a fraction of our brain.. In my opinion , its very difficult to determine how anyone would react in an critical moment. I would like to believe that I will be ready, if and when the situation happens but, there are way to many varibles to take into consideration.There are people who handle stressful situations very calmly , then there are people who panic.. No one really knows how they will respond to an threat. I honestly hope I never have to find out but, for those who have and lived to tell about it Congrads. you have done what most could not.

 

[festus]

When a clear and present danger to yourself or your loved ones presents itself...it is time to act. When a fellow human being is being killed or you have a reasonable fear thereof it is time to act. When a force-able felony is occurring and you are the recipient of that hate and discontent you must act decisively.
Every thing else is just so much keyboard commando false bravado.

You only want to stop the threat!!!

 

[SAR in FL]

My line is here...

When there is an immediate, and otherwise unavoidable threat of death, or crippling injury to yourself or another innocent person!

Dissect and understand each and every word in that statement. Each word in that phrase has literal meaning to it. Learn it, know it, live it.

The two words, "otherwise unavoidable" are just as important as the rest. Live by that phrase and employ lethal force only when that situation presents itself and you'll generally be okay in all 50 states.

 

[Iam2Taz]

I like SAR's post. Very well put.

Most states is correct! Unfortunately, not ALL.

While the definition is clearly in my mind, expressing it in writing is somewhat difficult.

 

[Irishcopper]

Im a firm believer that all the training in the world, Will not prepare you for that moment. Instinct takes over, please dont get me wrong training is a good thing. The more you train, The more your Muscle skills will devolpe. The human mind is very complexed. As humans, We have tried to understand how it works and even with the advances we have made. we still only use a fraction of our brain.. In my opinion , its very difficult to determine how anyone would react in an critical moment. I would like to believe that I will be ready, if and when the situation happens but, there are way to many varibles to take into consideration.There are people who handle stressful situations very calmly , then there are people who panic.. No one really knows how they will respond to an threat. I honestly hope I never have to find out but, for those who have and lived to tell about it Congrads. you have done what most could not.

In all due respect I must disagree. I've served in the military or law enforcement since 1976 and been in a variety to lethal force encounters. I am sitting here responding to your e-mail because I've had the benefit of some superb training. In my humble opinion training wins over instinct every time and keeps you from shooting the wrong people. Instinct without proper training will likely get your butt in some serious kimchee and looking at a grand jury indictment for manslaughter or even murder. As stated, train like you fight and everything else will fall into place. I won't argue the point because I've been there.

 

[SGB]

see this ________ don't cross it. :sarcastic:

 

[Firefighterchen]

I will only draw my firearm to save life.

 

[trophyhunter]

Yes.Thats you,Not the Average person who CCWs Most poeple who receive their CCW do not have that kind of formal training and never will. I would like to think I'm wrong and everyone who carries could and will handle the threat. But I dont think its the case. FEAR is a powerful Emotion. It can make one Freeze in their Tracks..

 

[Firefighterchen]

To the original post, as many scenarios you can come up with, as many classes you can train for, there is an unlimited amount of what if's...that being said...I go by my post above

 

[Iteach4U]

Good post rudiepop.

One of the ways I try to practice the defining of that line is spacial awareness drills. Noting exits, examining folks in the immediate environment (eye contact can give you a lot), and keeping that predatory mindset are all things that I practice from time to time. They certainly don't have to be obvious and they certainly don't have to be hyper-vigilant, though some will claim it actually is.

The predatory mindset I speak of is understanding how an attacker might get to me, how easy of a target I've made myself, and whether or not there's an easy possibility of the use of a ranged weapon. Hand to hand I'll have the advantage for the most part, add a ranged weapon and there may be others that could become victims quite quickly...that and you may not see it coming as easily with a ranged weapon.

Think and train like the predator to beat the predator. IE, know and understand the potential threat you'll be facing.

 

[Cvaughan]

training becomes instinct

With proper training and repeated drills to hone those skills your training will become your instinctual reaction in a stressful situation.

My opinion is simply determine are you under clear and present danger. If so draw, if the threat doesn't flee then watch his hands. Hope to God he complies with your commands and go from there.

 

[kelcarry]

Treo and SAR said it all. The law in SC clearly makes the point of "PRESUMPTION" of imminent danger. The line (which is easier said than done under the stress of the situation) is when you not only realize imminent danger but have the ability to articulate your actions--in the end, unless you have a string of witnesses, it is going to be what you say to the legal system that will determine your future. And always remember, if the situation is in a public venue---scream loudly and express your reluctance to do anything as you retreat (if possible) and to express your "presumption"---it is called "witnesses".

 

[BC1]

TOOL OF LAST RESORT.

Only use a weapon in self defense when imminent threat of grave bodily harm exists for yourself or another. Use it to stop a homicide, forceable sexual attack, arson, rape, kidnapping or assault of such depravity that significant injury may occur.

Only use a weapon when the need is so great that you must risk ruining the rest of your life.

 

[Treo]

Yes.Thats you,Not the Average person who CCWs Most poeple who receive their CCW do not have that kind of formal training and never will. I would like to think I'm wrong and everyone who carries could and will handle the threat. But I dont think its the case. FEAR is a powerful Emotion. It can make one Freeze in their Tracks..

Irishcopper is right. You don't have to go to someplace like frontsite or thunderranch to get training. Training can be just practicing what to do in the event that you are jumped.

I usually tell this story in conjunction w/ keeping a round in the chamber there there's a training element involved too.

I got jumped in the parking lot of my apartment when I first started carrying. I drew my gun but because I panicked I completely forgot that I had no round chambered. I performed exactly to the level of my training and luck not instinct saved my ass.

When I was in college I took a job as a security guard and because I was alone on my site I walked around all night practicing my draw by the numbers. move the shirt, grasp the gun , draw the gun, take a two handed grip as the gun comes level. I deliberately didn't practice for speed just for correct form.

One night I was out walking the fenceline in the dark , something ran past me in the dark and jumped the fence ( I think it was a deer) and my muscle memory took over and I drew w/out even thinking about it. I also practice magazine changes until it's second nature.

Even that much can give you an edge

 

[SFC]

The invisible line has too many scenarios for just one invisible line. True if my life or family's life is in danger than yes I know where I stand with out hesitation, although if it is a business being held up at gun point this brings on a differed approach. do I wait till the robbery is over or do I feel the vendor's life is in danger. Also depending on where this is going down, how many innocent people are at danger. Another scenario that does occur once in a while of two men in the parking lot and one has a gun drawn on the other, what do I do? To be honest I really do not know as the one with the gun may be an undercover LEO, or visa versa by me interrupting I could cost someone their life. The invisible line is very intuit and really much mental training needs to be taught self discipline. I understand Epinephrine as in any case of performing in a live situation to get the adrenaline going and one need to get this under control. I can honestly say I have been there with gun fire coming at me and my stress levels were off the chart, but because of combat training I gather my thoughts and performed under pressure, although still scared. All of US with a back ground in some type of training should be able to to react under these conditions using our heads before our firearms.

 

[fudo]

The invisible line has too many scenarios for just one invisible line. True if my life or family's life is in danger than yes I know where I stand with out hesitation, although if it is a business being held up at gun point this brings on a differed approach. do I wait till the robbery is over or do I feel the vendor's life is in danger. Also depending on where this is going down, how many innocent people are at danger. Another scenario that does occur once in a while of two men in the parking lot and one has a gun drawn on the other, what do I do? To be honest I really do not know as the one with the gun may be an undercover LEO, or visa versa by me interrupting I could cost someone their life. The invisible line is very intuit and really much mental training needs to be taught self discipline. I understand Epinephrine as in any case of performing in a live situation to get the adrenaline going and one need to get this under control. I can honestly say I have been there with gun fire coming at me and my stress levels were off the chart, but because of combat training I gather my thoughts and performed under pressure, although still scared. All of US with a back ground in some type of training should be able to to react under these conditions using our heads before our firearms.

Well said, sir! the invisible is situational, and a one size fits all approach will lead to tragedy. the call must be made in the moment, second to second.