Kentucky duty to notify?

[thoricuncle]

What rules? There's no law that requires you to inform in KY.

The rule of, "being respectful to a police officer". It's not on the books anywhere you can find it but there sure have been a lot of people arrested for it.

I'm not saying you have to kiss their butt, however, dealing with them in a respectful and professional manner will go a long ways.

 

[Mojo57]

The Kentucky handbook and training manual issued by the department of justice for getting your ccw permit expressly teaches to inform. Would you rather the officer potentially find or notice the weapon by surprise??? Not me. What if its in your glove box with your registration? I'm not about to drop that door without telling him it's in there. What if he orders you out of your car for safety and while standing there a gust of wind from a passing semi blows your coat open and he sees it? I don't want him to get all panicky. To me the officer Harless situation is more likely to occur when you don't inform him immediately rather than doing so. I prefer to be able to say I went beyond the call of duty should he treat me unfairly rather than being criticized for NOT doing as I was trained and tested to do in my ccw course. Those that are advocating not to inform because there is no statute are advocating to ignore what we are trained to do. There is no statute for keeping your finger off the trigger but what are we trained to do? I hope you follow that.

 

[TlWheatley]

Been stopped once and hit a road block, They didn't ask.

 

[NavyLCDR]

The rule of, "being respectful to a police officer". It's not on the books anywhere you can find it but there sure have been a lot of people arrested for it.

I'm not saying you have to kiss their butt, however, dealing with them in a respectful and professional manner will go a long ways.

In my state it is not required to tell a police officer about my gun or my CPL in order to be respectful and professional. I've gotten out of numerous speeding violations with a warning, and I would like to think that being respectful and professional to the police officer contributed something to that....and neither the presence of my gun nor my CPL has ever been mentioned, either by them or by me.

 

[Mojo57]

That's all well and good but what did your ccw course and training manual teach you to do? You're all ignoring a specific part of the Kentucky training process and advocating to ignore it. Presumable the kentucky police are well aware that ccw holders are taught to inform. They should then have the right to expect that that occurs. Failure to do that should it then become known is setting yourself up for problems. How would you answer these questions by the LEO . . . "Are't you taught to inform LEO that youre carrying?" Um, duh, studder, um, "Yes". "Wasn't that specifically taught to you and tested on?" more studdering, "yes." "And you failed to do that, right?" again, embarassingly, "Yes." "What's your excuse?" "oh, some paranoid people on a message forum encouraged me to not tell if not asked because there's no statute requiring it."

Why would the LEO give you any kind of break now??

 

[Treo]

This topic has been done to death.

In my experience those who do inform tend to be a little more authoritarian and tend to favor tighter restrictions on handgun permits.

Absent a legal requirement to do so, it’s ultimately your choice, do what works for you. I choose not to because IMO all it does is adds more time to the stop and gives the cop one more hassle to deal with.
In Colorado I am not required to inform the officer unless I am asked then I am required to surrender my permit w/ a valid ID. (CRS 18-12-204).

In Colorado my permit information is not tied to my driver’s license in anyway, the only way the cop is going to know I’m armed is if he sees it or asks me.

I don’t generally open carry. I have no objection; I just dress in a way that makes it impractical. If I am in my car my gun is generally on my right hip behind the seat belt I just don’t see the cop noticing it unless he has X-ray vision.

I carry my DL/registration/ proof of insurance in my wallet.

Bearing all that in mind this is how I handle a traffic stop.

As soon as the lights go on I take my wallet out of my pocket and have it in my hand I keep it in my hand until the stop is over, then I pull as far off the road as I can.

When that cop comes up to the car I have my hands in plain sight on the wheel w/ my wallet in my hand (no reaching for anything and giving the cop a chance to see my gun) I keep my wallet in my hand until the stop is over. I also turn the dome light on at night. IMO this negates the main rationale people give for informing, the cop isn’t going to notice my gun.

So, the cop asks for my papers I open the wallet, he can see everything I’m doing, and I hand him the documents and he does his thing and I’m on my way. No opportunity for him to notice any “suspicious bulges”. No reason for the cop to get nervous. No reason to prolong the stop.

If the cop asks me if I have any weapons in the car I say nothing and hand him my permit and go from there.
The only reason I would inform the cop w/out being asked is if he asked me to step out of the car.

In Colorado Springs that means I am almost certain to be patted down, so I hand him my permit before I get out of the car.

IMO “Showing respect” is nothing more than submissive urination, like a puppy that pees as soon as you touch it so you won’t beat it.
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[towboater]

I Agree with Treo on this one.

 

[BIGJOHN621]

All of the deputies
I know, are extremely pro-carry...so unless hiding something, again I ask, why would one not be open and
upfront?? Just curious to other's train of thought on this topic?

In 1992, I was stopped by a NYS Trooper for speeding. I had the same mindset and told the trooper I was armed and where my gun was. He asked me out of the car, had me put my hands in the roof of the car (yes on the traffic side of the highway) and disarmed me. I was then frisked for other weapons and asked for my permit.

I produced my permit and he went back to his car with my paperwork and handgun. He began to unload my gun, and dropped it in the hood of his troop car, where it slid off and fell to the nice soft asphalt road below.

To this day, I remember this guy every time I clean powder residue out of the gouge he put in my gun by dropping it. I will never inform when not required to again.

While the stop turned out without a ticket and he gave me back my gun and bullets, I still have a gouge in an otherwise well kept handgun.

I gave him no reason to be fearful of me, was ultimately respectful, followed proper protocol to the letter. Why did he disarm me? Who knows. I never asked and he never offered. That's the chance you take when you talk too much.

 

[Firefighterchen]

That's all well and good but what did your ccw course and training manual teach you to do? You're all ignoring a specific part of the Kentucky training process and advocating to ignore it. Presumable the kentucky police are well aware that ccw holders are taught to inform. They should then have the right to expect that that occurs. Failure to do that should it then become known is setting yourself up for problems. How would you answer these questions by the LEO . . . "Are't you taught to inform LEO that youre carrying?" Um, duh, studder, um, "Yes". "Wasn't that specifically taught to you and tested on?" more studdering, "yes." "And you failed to do that, right?" again, embarassingly, "Yes." "What's your excuse?" "oh, some paranoid people on a message forum encouraged me to not tell if not asked because there's no statute requiring it."

Why would the LEO give you any kind of break now??

You seem like a really smart guy....except your dialogue...

Officer: (turning red and flustered) aren't you taught to inform?

Civilian: (calmly) sir, we are taught that its not mandatory to inform, but some think its respectful to do so.

Officer: (voice starts getting louder, body posturing) wasn't that specifically taught to you and tested on?!

Civilian: (respectfully) yes sir we were tested on the notification requirement.

Officer: (screaming) and you failed to do that, right?!?!

Civilian: (taken back) no sir.

Officer: (hand goes to firearm still screaming) what's your excuse?!?!

Civilian: (calm and respectfully) sir, no excuse, I have no duty to inform, while some thinks its respectful, I do not.

Interesting world we live in. You can call us paranoid, I could call you a badge bunny...but where would that get us? You were better than that before mojo...

 

[Treo]

That's all well and good but what did your ccw course and training manual teach you to do? You're all ignoring a specific part of the Kentucky training process and advocating to ignore it. Presumable the kentucky police are well aware that ccw holders are taught to inform. They should then have the right to expect that that occurs. Failure to do that should it then become known is setting yourself up for problems. How would you answer these questions by the LEO . . . "Are't you taught to inform LEO that youre carrying?" Um, duh, studder, um, "Yes". "Wasn't that specifically taught to you and tested on?" more studdering, "yes." "And you failed to do that, right?" again, embarassingly, "Yes." "What's your excuse?" "oh, some paranoid people on a message forum encouraged me to not tell if not asked because there's no statute requiring it."

Why would the LEO give you any kind of break now??

Why should the cop expect you to do anything outside the requirements of the law?

If the Kentucky DMV started putting a paragraph in the driver's license test book stating that you should, as a courtesy, always allow a search when an officer pulls you over and this was taught in driver's ed would you support waiving your 4th amendment rights even though the the law doesn't require it?

 

[Mojo57]

ARE YOU GUYS NOT LISTENING??? Maybe because you don't have the state handbook you are simply uninformed. Getting your ccw in Kentucky teaches you to INFORM. You're taught specifically what to do regardless of express statutory law just like 90% of the rest of the course. YOU'RE TAUGHT WHAT TO DO regardless of a particular statute. You guys are simply advocating not doing what trained instructors and the department of justice teaches you to do. Andi think that's idiotic. They teach that for a reason and I'm sure passing the course means youre expecting to abide by the teaching. The test doesn't say, do you don't have to inform if you don't want to. It SAYS IMFORM.

 

[Mojo57]

You seem like a really smart guy....except your dialogue...

Officer: (turning red and flustered) aren't you taught to inform?

Civilian: (calmly) sir, we are taught that its not mandatory to inform, but some think its respectful to do so.

Officer: (voice starts getting louder, body posturing) wasn't that specifically taught to you and tested on?!

Civilian: (respectfully) yes sir we were tested on the notification requirement.

Officer: (screaming) and you failed to do that, right?!?!

Civilian: (taken back) no sir.

Officer: (hand goes to firearm still screaming) what's your excuse?!?!

Civilian: (calm and respectfully) sir, no excuse, I have no duty to inform, while some thinks its respectful, I do not.

Interesting world we live in. You can call us paranoid, I could call you a badge bunny...but where would that get us? You were better than that before mojo...

COMPLETELY WRONG. We are taught there is no statute for not informing BUT THE PROCEDURE AMD PROPER WAY TO HANDLE THE SITUATION IS TO INFORM. until you take the Ky course you are uninformed.

 

[towboater]

I never saw anywhere the literature about needing to notify the police. Or a recommendation there of. Hence the reason I started this thread. No one is here to get mad. It was a simple yes r no answer I sought. I got that.

 

[Mojo57]

Why should the cop expect you to do anything outside the requirements of the law?

If the Kentucky DMV started putting a paragraph in the driver's license test book stating that you should, as a courtesy, always allow a search when an officer pulls you over and this was taught in driver's ed would you support waiving your 4th amendment rights even though the the law doesn't require it?

This forum is ridiculous with its analogies. Not even a point worth discussing. The bottom line is younare expected to do what you're taught. If you want to ignore that go for it. But actively telling other members to blantanly ignore what is taught is irresponsible at best.

 

[Mojo57]

I'll scan it and post it if I get a chance. That was a pretty big part of our course so I'm surprised it wasn't with yours.

 

[towboater]

I read the whole kit and caboodle never saw it. I remember our instructor telling us something along the lines of, if your not it a duty to notify state to keep quiet. That you would seem like a show off. At least that's what the man who taught my class said.

 

[towboater]

I'll scan it and post it if I get a chance. That was a pretty big part of our course so I'm surprised it wasn't with yours.

I would very much like to see the section of the manual I you do get a chance. Was your class done by an LEO? And maybe the time you took it differed, like the year changed. Maybe the class curriculum changed??

 

[NavyLCDR]

COMPLETELY WRONG. We are taught there is no statute for not informing BUT THE PROCEDURE AMD PROPER WAY TO HANDLE THE SITUATION IS TO INFORM. until you take the Ky course you are uninformed.

The instructor was telling you what his OPINION was as to how to properly handle the situation.

I never saw anywhere the literature about needing to notify the police. Or a recommendation there of. Hence the reason I started this thread. No one is here to get mad. It was a simple yes r no answer I sought. I got that.

I read the whole kit and caboodle never saw it. I remember our instructor telling us something along the lines of, if your not it a duty to notify state to keep quiet. That you would seem like a show off. At least that's what the man who taught my class said.

Obviously, towboater's instructor had a different opinion. That's all it is..... AN OPINION! Because there is no statutory requirement to inform, there is no right or wrong answer, only people's opinions as to what they think they should do. Ultimately, Mojo57, everyone has to decide for themselves what they will do in the presence of the uniform and badge. Regardless of what you may claim, you don't possess the right answer for everybody.

 

[Mojo57]

I just took the course a few weeks ago. The instruction manual was provided by the department of justice for Kentucky. THE MANUAL specifically spelled out what you are "suppose" to do. This was not just the instructor giving his opinion. It's written in the manual that is provided to teach a ccw that issued by the state of kentucky. It spells it out very clearly. Page 21. I'll post it tonight. I'm not telling ANYONE what they should do. I'm simply stating WHAT THE TRAINING MATERIALS ISSUED BY THE STATE say to do. I couldn't careless what you do quite frankly. How would that concern me? I just think people should refer people to the law OR how the state trains ccw holders. Otherwise, what's the point of the class?

 

[Firefighterchen]

COMPLETELY WRONG. We are taught there is no statute for not informing BUT THE PROCEDURE AMD PROPER WAY TO HANDLE THE SITUATION IS TO INFORM. until you take the Ky course you are uninformed.

How am I wrong? "We were taught there is no statute for not informing," therefore I am RIGHT, there is no statue that says I am wrong, at all. I left out the, "BUT I WAS TOLD TO INFORM BASED OFF OF SOMEONE ELSE'S OPINION (even if that person is someone writting CHL manuals for KY)," that doesn't make me wrong. I won't do as I am told verbatim if it's not against the law. I will be taught, I will think it through, and decide what I feel is best for me.

I don't need to take any course to know when someone says, "by law you do not need to inform, but (insert course of action)" is an opinion of someone.

Anyways, my post wasn't about how improperly you were trained...but just how biased your dialogue was. I posted how my view of the dialogue would have went.