Kent County, MI, man accused of assault, ethnic intimidation

[ezkl2230]

Approached his victim in a store in a rural part of Kent County, MI, used ethnic slurs, which the victim ignored, at which point he pulled a knife on him. The store manager intervened. The attacker left the store, but returned to finish his shopping, saw that his victim was still there, and went after him again, still holding his knife. This time the victim pulled his "legally carried pistol" and held off the attacker while he (the victim) left the store.

He showed a tremendous amount of restraint, and was able to exit the scene without firing a shot.

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[B2Tall]

Good for him. A lawfully-armed citizen in action. I hope the perp learned his lesson because if it wasn't for the restraint shown by the CCer, he'd be pushin' up daisies right about now.

 

[The_Outlaw]

That scumbag with the knife is very lucky that he didn't get himself shot.
The concealed carrier was justified to use deadly force when the suspect pulled a knife on him i.m.h.o.
See the '21 foot rule'....

 

[ezkl2230]

Good for him. A lawfully-armed citizen in action. I hope the perp learned his lesson because if it wasn't for the restraint shown by the CCer, he'd be pushin' up daisies right about now.

I doubt the perp learned anything. He's already a three-time loser; this is strike four. If anything, he's going to blame a member of another ethnic group for sending him back to the big house. On the plus side, he faces life in prison as a habitual offender.

 

[Coyoye52]

He is very lucky to be breathing

 

[SGB]

The entire incident is full of fail in my opinion.

 

[B2Tall]

The entire incident is full of fail in my opinion.

You think the CCer should have shot him??

One thing I would have done is call the police after the first incident. I also would have produced my firearm the first time around as well.

 

[ezkl2230]

It's easier to avoid conflict than it is to survive it

Interesting..... That is exactly what this person was able to do. He backed his attacker off and effected an escape without firing a shot. While you can argue that he should have pulled his firearm earlier, or that the police should have been notified earlier, the fact is that he did exactly what you say is the ideal - he avoided the need to survive a conflict.

 

[Rich_S]

I doubt the perp learned anything. He's already a three-time loser; this is strike four. If anything, he's going to blame a member of another ethnic group for sending him back to the big house. On the plus side, he faces life in prison as a habitual offender.

Plus side? Now the tax payers get to pay to lock him up to the tune of about 40K per year. Hopefully he gets shanked sooner than later. That would be the real plus.

 

[Flashlight22]

He should of put 2 in his chest and called it a day, now our tax dollars have to pay for this jerkoff to live tax free in jail. I myself would of dropped the dirtbag but I will never know how I would react until I am in that type of situation.

 

[sgtbill]

One should not say what they would or would not have done untill they are placed in that position. Everything can change in a heartbeat when your ass is on the line or that of your family.
Bill

 

[ezkl2230]

One should not say what they would or would not have done untill they are placed in that position. Everything can change in a heartbeat when your ass is on the line or that of your family.
Bill

But isn't that exactly why we train? So that, when the moment happens, we don't have to stop and think about what needs to be done (react), but instead we are able to respond to the threat at hand? If I truly believed that no one knows what they will do until the moment happens, then I would also have to believe that every dollar we spend training LEOs, first responders, firefighters, and military personnel - just to give a few examples - is wasted. I would have to believe that every moment I personally spend training or running scenarios is a waste of my time. I mean, why bother? Even after receiving training, according to you, no one can know how they will actually respond until the moment hits. Now, I will concede that in a small fraction of cases some people who have received training will completely freak out and run for their lives in a full-on panic, but I think history shows us that the vast majority of people who have taken the time to train themselves will respond more or less as planned when the need arises. I can accept that you might not know how you will REACT when the moment comes (if you haven't taken the time to prepare yourself), but I cannot accept that one never knows how they will RESPOND to the moment when they have taken the time to prepare. That is the whole premise behind the article posted on USA Carry's home page, "Defensive Intelligence: Connecting the Dots."

 

[Iam2Taz]

Yes it is one of the reasons we train. To make our bodies act instinctively up on a stressful situation. However, references to how you would have responded to a significant situation could and most likely will be used against you in a court of law.
Sometimes, a well thought out comment might be better than quick retort. Just sayin.

 

[ezkl2230]

Yes it is one of the reasons we train. To make our bodies act instinctively up on a stressful situation. However, references to how you would have responded to a significant situation could and most likely will be used against you in a court of law.
Sometimes, a well thought out comment might be better than quick retort. Just sayin.

No argument there!

 

[sgtbill]

But isn't that exactly why we train? So that, when the moment happens, we don't have to stop and think about what needs to be done (react), but instead we are able to respond to the threat at hand? If I truly believed that no one knows what they will do until the moment happens, then I would also have to believe that every dollar we spend training LEOs, first responders, firefighters, and military personnel - just to give a few examples - is wasted. I would have to believe that every moment I personally spend training or running scenarios is a waste of my time. I mean, why bother? Even after receiving training, according to you, no one can know how they will actually respond until the moment hits. Now, I will concede that in a small fraction of cases some people who have received training will completely freak out and run for their lives in a full-on panic, but I think history shows us that the vast majority of people who have taken the time to train themselves will respond more or less as planned when the need arises. I can accept that you might not know how you will REACT when the moment comes (if you haven't taken the time to prepare yourself), but I cannot accept that one never knows how they will RESPOND to the moment when they have taken the time to prepare. That is the whole premise behind the article posted on USA Carry's home page, "Defensive Intelligence: Connecting the Dots."

My response comes from experience of carrying weapons for over 40 years and USEING them on many occasions.Just a short background on me before you make another long winded statement.
I am a former U.S. Marine and U.S.Air Force I was a Small Arm's Specialist in the Air Force and I won't go into my background in the U.S.Marine's After I got out of the Military in 1969 and came home and I was sworn into the Atlantic City Police Department 12 days later (1/12/69) I then spent 25 years and 1 month in the Police Department where I held the job's of Range Master for 7 years and head of the Sniper Unit for our SWAT team. I spent a total of 22 years on the SWAT team. I also along the way managed to train between Military and Police over 10,000 people in the use of firearms. I also found time to shoot in competition with both a handgun and a rifle and became the state of N.J. Police High Master Revolver Champion. I Hold a High Master certification in High Power Rifel Competition and a High Master Pistol Certification. I have been a NRA weapons Instructor for over 38 years and Life Member for over 30 years.

I base my position on experience and fact's as I know them , not on someone elses unfounded and baseless opinion's.
Bill

 

[jahwarrior72]

The first time a weapon was presented against me, I would have shot the son of a *****. Pulling a knife on someone is a deadly threat, and in PA, any perceived deadly threat is to be met with deadly force. So, yeah, you pull a knife on me, you get shot, period. The store manager had some cojones, but the guy being accosted has no sense of when to step up and do what needs to be done. The next time, he might get himself stabbed.

 

[B2Tall]

The first time a weapon was presented against me, I would have shot the son of a *****. Pulling a knife on someone is a deadly threat, and in PA, any perceived deadly threat is to be met with deadly force. So, yeah, you pull a knife on me, you get shot, period. The store manager had some cojones, but the guy being accosted has no sense of when to step up and do what needs to be done. The next time, he might get himself stabbed.

Just as I suspected from your other, self-serving thread - you're just itching to shoot somebody.

 

[jahwarrior72]

Just as I suspected from your other, self-serving thread - you're just itching to shoot somebody.

And as I suspected, you're a fool. If someone were to pull a knife on you, and you declined to shoot, well, that's your business.

 

[Warbirds]

And as I suspected, you're a fool. If someone were to pull a knife on you, and you declined to shoot, well, that's your business.

There is a difference between being willing to defend yourself and having permanent trigger finger. You come across as walking around constantly applying 3lb force to your 4lb trigger.


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[B2Tall]

And as I suspected, you're a fool. If someone were to pull a knife on you, and you declined to shoot, well, that's your business.

A fool? Hardly. I certainly would have drawn-down on the guy the first time around, after all - it's not like he has his car keys in his hand....but shoot him on the spot?? Nope. He has a knife, not a gun. What if the guy started backing up as soon as he saw my pistol?? Then what??? Then you lose your justification and you'd be in jail for attempted murder at the very least.

This isn't a video game. The taking of a life is serious business as far as I'm concerned. When I've drawn a bead on the guy I have every advantage. Now the phrase "bringing a knife to a gunfight" comes into play. Unless he's advancing towards me, I'll hold my fire. You see....I don't really want to shoot anybody, for a variety of reasons. You on the other hand seem rather eager to shoot someone as evidenced by this and your other posts on this site. And for someone like you - somebody who's convinced the cops will try to railroad him at any opportunity - you should be doubly cautious about displaying a handgun in public, let alone discharging one. That seems to be a contradiction on your part.

As someone said on the other thread, make sure you have a good criminal lawyer.