Kansas Law

[KABOOKIE]

Hello, I'm new to board and would like help in interpreting Kansas conceal carry laws.

The following is the latest Kansas law on prohibited places where conceal carry is not allowed.

Link Removed

It states;

Statute 75-7c10: Same; posted places where carrying concealed weapon not authorized; penalties for violations.

(a) Provided that the premises are conspicuously posted in accordance with rules and regulations adopted by the attorney general as premises where carrying a concealed weapon is prohibited, no license issued pursuant to this act shall authorize the licensee to carry a concealed weapon into:
(1) Any place where an activity declared a common nuisance by K.S.A. 22-3901, and amendments thereto, is maintained;
(2) any police, sheriff or highway patrol station;
(3) any detention facility, prison or jail;
(4) any courthouse;
(5) any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in the judge's courtroom;
(6) any polling place on the day an election is held;
(7) any meeting of the governing body of a county, city or other political or taxing subdivision of the state, or any committee or subcommittee thereof;
(8) on the state fairgrounds;
(9) any state office building;
(10) any athletic event not related to or involving firearms which is sponsored by a private or public elementary or secondary school or any private or public institution of postsecondary education;
(11) any professional athletic event not related to or involving firearms;
(12) any portion of a drinking establishment as defined by K.S.A. 41-2601, and amendments thereto, except that this provision shall not apply to a restaurant as defined by K.S.A. 41-2601, and amendments thereto;
(13) any elementary or secondary school, attendance center, administrative office, services center or other facility;
(14) any community college, college or university facility;
(15) any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal or state law;
(16) any child exchange and visitation center provided for in K.S.A. 75-720, and amendments thereto;
(17) any community mental health center organized pursuant to K.S.A. 19-4001 et seq., and amendments thereto; mental health clinic organized pursuant to K.S.A. 65-211 et seq., and amendments thereto; psychiatric hospital licensed under K.S.A. 75-3307b, and amendments thereto; or state psychiatric hospital, as follows: Larned state hospital, Osawatomie state hospital or Rainbow mental health facility;
(18) any city hall;
(19) any public library operated by the state or by a political subdivision of the state;
(20) any day care home or group day care home, as defined in Kansas administrative regulation 28-4-113, or any preschool or childcare center, as defined in Kansas administrative regulation 28-4-420;
(21) any church or temple; or
(22) any place in violation of K.S.A. 21-4218, and amendments thereto.
(b) (1) Violation of this section is a class A misdemeanor.
(2) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a), it is not a violation of this section for the United States attorney for the district of Kansas, the attorney general, any district attorney or county attorney, any assistant United States attorney if authorized by the United States attorney for the district of Kansas, any assistant attorney general if authorized by the attorney general, or any assistant district attorney or assistant county attorney if authorized by the district attorney or county attorney by whom such assistant is employed, to possess a firearm within any county courthouse or court-related facility, subject to any restrictions or prohibitions imposed in any courtroom by the chief judge of the judicial district. The provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to any person not in compliance with K.S.A. 2009 Supp. 75-7c19, and amendments thereto.

Reading the bold portion of the law it is my interpretation that places like a school, daycare center, college, athletic event, etc... are not automatically off limits to permit holders unless they have the required no-gun signage "conspicuously" posted on the building.

My wife thinks this law can be interpreted as these places are off limits as long as the place is "conspicuously" posted as a school, daycare center, college, athletic event, etc...

I'm asking because Kansas law has significantly changed since I took my conceal carry class.

Also, in researching the laws below seem to make it clear that these places must have the proper no-gun sign to be posted on the building to be considered off limits.

http://www.kscoplaw.com/crimcode/2668code/art63.htm#21-6301

21-6301. Criminal use of weapons.
(a) Criminal use of weapons is knowingly:

(11) possession of any firearm by any person, other than a law enforcement officer, in or on any school property or grounds upon which is located a building or structure used by a unified school district or an accredited nonpublic school for student instruction or attendance or extracurricular activities of pupils enrolled in kindergarten or any of the grades 1 through 12 or at any regularly scheduled school sponsored activity or event whether the person knows or has reason to know that such person was in or on any such property or grounds;

(i) Subsection (a)(11) shall not apply to:
(5) possession of a handgun by an individual who is licensed by the attorney general to carry a concealed handgun under K.S.A. 2010 Supp. 75-7c01 et seq., and amendments thereto.

http://ag.ks.gov/docs/documents/other-places-where-concealed-carry-may-not-be-allowed.pdf

Although the express reference to KSA 21-4218 was removed from KSA 75-7c10, there is still a prohibition against carrying into a state office building (new K.S.A. 75-7c10(a)(6)). Additionally, KSA 21-4218 now contains an express allowance for licensees to carry into the enumerated locations within that statute – however, that allowance does not apply to buildings posted in accordance with KSA 75-7c10 or the governor’s home or grounds regardless of whether or not they are posted. Therefore, below are some locations that licensees will definitely need to be cognizant of during their travels if they are carrying concealed.

http://ag.ks.gov/docs/documents/concealed-carry-faqs.pdf

I’ve heard that there is a law requiring me to keep any firearm outside of 1,000
feet of a school…as a licensee of Kansas, is this true?
o Answer: No – if traveling through a Kansas “school zone.” The federal law,
18 U.S.C. 922(q), requiring firearms to remain outside of 1,000 feet of a
“school zone” has exceptions for individuals who are licensed to carry a
firearm by the jurisdiction (state or local) where the school zone sits.
Therefore, Kansas licensees have a built in exception to the general
rule…licensees from other states, however, do not have this same exception
while traveling in Kansas. Note: Kansas licensees do, however, need to be
aware of schools that have posted their buildings with A.G. approved signage.
· I was picking up my child from elementary/high school the other day, and I
noticed on the fence outside of the driveway to the school’s entryway the school
had an A.G. approved sign posted. I thought only buildings were allowed to be
posted…is this an “illegal” posting?
o Answer: Although the signage placement in this example is not proper, there
is nothing ‘illegal’ about an improperly posted sign.
o With a few exceptions, only buildings may be posted with compliant AG
signage. Further, Kansas licensees have been granted access to K-12
school grounds through K.S.A. 2011 Supp. 21-6301(i)(5), which is an
exception to the general rule of no firearms on the grounds (or buildings) of K-
12 schools found under 21-6301(a)(11)

 

[eagleks]

It states;
Reading the bold portion of the law it is my interpretation that places like a school, daycare center, college, athletic event, etc... are not automatically off limits to permit holders unless they have the required no-gun signage "conspicuously" posted on the building.

My wife thinks this law can be interpreted as these places are off limits as long as the place is "conspicuously" posted as a school, daycare center, college, athletic event, etc...

Also, in researching the laws below seem to make it clear that these places must have the proper no-gun sign to be posted on the building to be considered off limits.

"are conspicuously posted in accordance with rules and regulations adopted by the attorney general as premises where carrying a concealed weapon is prohibited"

You are correct, and your wife is wrong.
the above part about "rules and regulations adopted by the attorney general " ..... refers to another section which requires the AG to create a "standard sign and standard method that they must be posted" ...... if they are not, they are not compliant and it's not illegal ... but if they ask you to leave ... leave because then you get into trespassing charges.

In other words, there is a section where the AG defines the size and type of sign that must be posted , how (on entry doors between I believe 5'4" - 5'8" high), all doors and entry ways must be posted, only "buildings" (per the law) can be posted.... so even if a school posted the doors of it's buildings with the AG approved signage and the AG prescribed methods ... they cannot post the grounds and even if they did it would not be illegal to carry on them.

Now .. as to schools, there is a catch .... you are legal if the state in which you "LIVE" and issues the permit allows it and your a permit to carry a gun is issued by that same state and includes background checks. So, it's legal in Arkansas as well, but it would not be legal for US in Arkansas since we are not an Arkansas resident and don't have an Arkansas license. We are legal in Kansas, but someone from Arkansas wouldn't be when they are in Kansas... to carry IN schools...

Hope that all helps and it answered your questions.

Basically.... in Kansas .... it's legal to carry anywhere that's not posted with the AG's approved signage , or not a building, and .... YOU cannot carry on Federal property or at the Govenors mansion/grounds without the Governors' permission. You'll find most courts are posted and most State offices are posted.

 

[FormerDatt]

School zones

"are conspicuously posted in accordance with rules and regulations adopted by the attorney general as premises where carrying a concealed weapon is prohibited"

You are correct, and your wife is wrong.
the above part about "rules and regulations adopted by the attorney general " ..... refers to another section which requires the AG to create a "standard sign and standard method that they must be posted" ...... if they are not, they are not compliant and it's not illegal ... but if they ask you to leave ... leave because then you get into trespassing charges.

In other words, there is a section where the AG defines the size and type of sign that must be posted , how (on entry doors between I believe 5'4" - 5'8" high), all doors and entry ways must be posted, only "buildings" (per the law) can be posted.... so even if a school posted the doors of it's buildings with the AG approved signage and the AG prescribed methods ... they cannot post the grounds and even if they did it would not be illegal to carry on them.

Now .. as to schools, there is a catch .... you are legal if the state in which you "LIVE" and issues the permit allows it and your a permit to carry a gun is issued by that same state and includes background checks. So, it's legal in Arkansas as well, but it would not be legal for US in Arkansas since we are not an Arkansas resident and don't have an Arkansas license. We are legal in Kansas, but someone from Arkansas wouldn't be when they are in Kansas... to carry IN schools...

Hope that all helps and it answered your questions.

Basically.... in Kansas .... it's legal to carry anywhere that's not posted with the AG's approved signage , or not a building, and .... YOU cannot carry on Federal property or at the Govenors mansion/grounds without the Governors' permission. You'll find most courts are posted and most State offices are posted.

I'm new here and this is my first post. I live diagonally across the street from an elementary school, about 75 feet. I am aware I am within the law when carrying on my own property. However what happens when I am out on the sidewalk, or walking my dog pass the main building. The federal law is 1000 feet is it not? Many thanks!

 

[wolf_fire]

First and foremost, welcome to both KABOOKIE and FormerDatt to the forum.

Also, excellent questions for new members.

KABOOKIE, eagleks answered you well. The bold part clearly says that the AG has a specific way that postings are to be done and unless those places are not posted according to the AG, then yes you are legal to carry there. I would double the advice of leave if asked. You will have a trespassing charge, and in some states (not sure about KS), trespassing with a firearm is an added offense.

FoirmerDatt you have asked the million dollar question. I have to assume since you asked about Federal law that you do not have a permit/license from your state (please let us know which one)? If this is the case, then yes, once off your property that is the case, you may not be carrying within 1000' of a school.

However, with a license/permit, in some states, this 1000' limit gets drastically reduced. To make the matter more confusing (and why I asked what state you are from and if you have a license/permit), if you have a permit from your state and that gives you reciprocity in another state, you may not have the same convenience as the resident permit holders in the other state of being able to get closer to the schools than the 1000' Federal statute.

 

[FormerDatt]

Thank you sincerely for the welcome. Yes, I have a Kansas CCW license. Have had it for quite awhile and carry mostly when out of town. My carrying near the school never bothered me as I usually drove vs. walked to & from stores in town. I'm doing more walking now especially with my dogs in the cooler weather. I read where people can traverse the parking lot dropping kids off but on foot seems to be another matter?

 

[wolf_fire]

Thank you sincerely for the welcome. Yes, I have a Kansas CCW license. Have had it for quite awhile and carry mostly when out of town. My carrying near the school never bothered me as I usually drove vs. walked to & from stores in town. I'm doing more walking now especially with my dogs in the cooler weather. I read where people can traverse the parking lot dropping kids off but on foot seems to be another matter?

If you are from KS and have a KS license then KABOOKIE in his first post, in the last blue quote box has your question answered then. It seems KS does give exception to the 1000' federal statute. Here's the part that is important:

Further, Kansas licensees have been granted access to K-12
school grounds through K.S.A. 2011 Supp. 21-6301(i)(5), which is an
exception to the general rule of no firearms on the grounds (or buildings) of K-
12 schools found under 21-6301(a)(11)

So walking should be just fine as long as you don't enter the school building with an approved AG sign saying no guns.

 

[JimTh]

90 percent of the places you cannot carry, we can carry freely in Virginia. What is the point of having a ccw if you can't carry in most of the places you might want to go.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Now .. as to schools, there is a catch .... you are legal if the state in which you "LIVE" and issues the permit allows it and your a permit to carry a gun is issued by that same state and includes background checks. So, it's legal in Arkansas as well, but it would not be legal for US in Arkansas since we are not an Arkansas resident and don't have an Arkansas license. We are legal in Kansas, but someone from Arkansas wouldn't be when they are in Kansas... to carry IN schools...

Where you "LIVE" has nothing really to do with the Federal 1000' School Zone prohibition. The exemption from the Federal School Zone prohibition is for those who possess a permit which requires a background check, issued by the same state the school zone is located in. For example, a Kansas resident who possesses a Washington non-resident CPL would be exempt from the Federal 1000' School Zone prohibition in Washington. Any permit that you possess, resident or non-resident, only exempts you from the Federal School Zone prohibition in the same state that issued that permit.

I'm new here and this is my first post. I live diagonally across the street from an elementary school, about 75 feet. I am aware I am within the law when carrying on my own property. However what happens when I am out on the sidewalk, or walking my dog pass the main building. The federal law is 1000 feet is it not? Many thanks!

1. You are exempt from the Federal School Zone 1000' prohibition while on private property.
2. You are exempt from the Federal School Zone 1000' prohibition if you possess a permit/license that requires a background check, if that permit/license was issued by the same state the school zone is located in.
3. You are exempt from the Federal School Zone 1000' prohibition if the gun is unloaded and locked in a case.
4. Of course the special class of citizen known as Law Enforcement Officers are exempt, as they are exempt from most citizen, I mean gun, control laws
5. There are a couple of other weird exceptions that almost no one would fall under.

18 USC 922 (q)(2) is the GFSZA:
18 USC § 922 - Unlawful acts | Title 18 - Crimes and Criminal Procedure | U.S. Code | LII / Legal Information Institute

 

[FormerDatt]

Thank you! Have started carrying as part of my usual routine now. I was beginning to feel boxed in my my choice of residence.

 

[pastorm1]

I am glad to be a Kansan and that our state is trying to give even more freedom to its gun carrying citizens. The laws for gun carriers have changed to give even more freedom to those with CCPs than when I first got my permit around 2 years ago.

 

[cwm1611]

90 percent of the places you cannot carry, we can carry freely in Virginia. What is the point of having a ccw if you can't carry in most of the places you might want to go.

Those 16 "Places you cannot carry" in Ks are under the caviat of: IF posted (properly). None of the churches in our town are posted, one bank posted improperly (intentionally), our court house is not posted, our Sheriff's office is not posted, our fairgrounds and library are county owned (not state) therefore you can carry, our K-12 Christian school is not posted (and has some staff carrying) and several other similar items.

So, most of the aforenamed places get legally carried in

 

[KSDeputy]

KS has constitutional carry. No permit is required to carry openly or concealed if you are able, by law, to own a gun. The list of prohibited places may have changed. I saw my first open carry the other day in a pawn shop I frequent. I was surprised it took me so long to see anyone carrying openly. I had a nice conversation with the guy, his opinions and values are a lot like mine. He showed me his Sig convertible pistol. I never did ask him why he preferred carrying openly, I always carry concealed. I have a LEOSA permit. He completely changed my opinion of the type of person that would carry openly. One is never too old to learn.