Judge says UC can deny religious course credit


Ektarr said:
Just as a conversation enhancer, and not for any particular reason (other than that I like to play Devil's Advocate and try to see the side that's sometimes overlooked...)...

Satan is also called the 'Great Deceiver', because, having dominion over the Earth (we are told), he can place things in our lives which are designed to fool us into disbelieving what God offers and try to turn us away...right?

S'pose Satan simply puts all these things here . . . dinosaur bones; old rocks; whatever it is that has us believing, "scientifically", that the Bible is wrong and science is right? Suppose it's all a great big Satanic joke meant to decieve us and, in the end, everything in the Bible is true and accurate?

I'm not sayin' anything . . . I'm just sayin'. Just suppose...
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Nice thought, but I don't think it's true. Just like dinosaur bones show us that dinosaurs used to inhabit earth, old human bones show us the humans who used to inhabit earth.

BTW, how is anyone able to determine just how old the earth is from the Bible? I know my Bible pretty well, but I don't recall anywhere in it that hints at how old the earth is.
 

Quite the contrary. Based on the decendents of Adam in Genesis 5 and other scriptures then comparing them to know dates it is easily calculated.
 
I guess I never caught that. I believe the Bible, but I also believe the fossil record. The evidence of the earth being billions of years old is just too convincing to ignore.
 
NDS said:
I'll help you out:

Link Removed
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I'm just as Christian as anyone on this board, but seriously, isn't believing that the Earth is only 7,000 years old akin to the once popular belief among Christians that the sun and planets revolve around the Earth?
 
tattedupboy said:
I'm just as Christian as anyone on this board, but seriously, isn't believing that the Earth is only 7,000 years old akin to the once popular belief among Christians that the sun and planets revolve around the Earth?
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Don't know about that. Carbon dating that has been used to try and date things has proven to be inaccurate in many cases.
 
HK4U said:
Don't know about that. Carbon dating that has been used to try and date things has proven to be inaccurate in many cases.
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In just as many cases it has also been quite accurate. Yes, carbon dating, just like many other scientific processes, is imperfect and imprecise, but at the end of the day, the fossil record doesn't lie.
 
HK4U said:
Some of us don't view this ruling as bad. Need I remind you that the Supreme Court also ruled in our favor for Heller.
What does it say? That we are created and our rights come not from government or some paper but from the Creator. Do you really think the atheist and agnostics we have trying to run our country or ruin our country are smarter than Jefferson and the other Founding Fathers of our country?
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Yes because their mind is not polluted with something that may not exist.
 
tattedupboy said:
I did not ask to be directed to a wikiedia article on the subject. I asked you to show me where in the Constitution that this invention of the concept of "separation of church and state" can be found. Show me the part of the Constitution that requires separation of church and state. As soon as you can show me where the Constitution mentions that, I'll shut up.
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It was derived through a subsequent amendments to the Constitution and case law. Why reinvent the wheel? If the wikipedia link has the information, why should I waste bandwidth, energy and time rehashing it? You have to look at is today not how it was over two centuries ago. You cannot have Amish beliefs about the law. It is what it is today.
 
HK4U said:
NDS I hope you don't mind if I pray to my "imaginary friend" for you.

Don't worry. My "imaginary friend" created the heavens and the earth so I am not afraid.
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Hope you don't mind if I pray to my Magic 8 Ball. At least my Magic 8 Ball is a tangible object.
 
netentity said:
Hope you don't mind if I pray to my Magic 8 Ball. At least my Magic 8 Ball is a tangible object.
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Be my guest. If it makes you feel better to believe you were the by product of primordial uz out of a big bang theory than being formed by a Creator then knock yourself out.
 
HK4U said:
Be my guest. If it makes you feel better to believe you were the by product of primordial uz out of a big bang theory than being formed by a Creator then knock yourself out.
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Who says the Creator didn't use the big bang to create us?
 
So god colludes with and acquiesces to lies--if you say so.
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If that's the spin you want to put on it. It may also be that He allows another to lie and lets the individual make up his own mind about things. His allowing Satan to lie to us doesn't make Him the liar, or put Him in collusion. It merely has Him giving us the freedom choice.

I can understand why you reject a belief on God. I'm certainly no Christian Poster Child. But, from an intellectual view, shouldn't you rather keep your mind open than to intellectualize (rationalize?) it away completely? You can rationalize yourself out of practically any argument. Intellectually, you must admit, there's always the remote possibility that you're actually wrong.
 
netentity said:
It was derived through a subsequent amendments to the Constitution and case law. Why reinvent the wheel? If the wikipedia link has the information, why should I waste bandwidth, energy and time rehashing it? You have to look at is today not how it was over two centuries ago. You cannot have Amish beliefs about the law. It is what it is today.
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Pure hogwash. The Constitution is what it is and says what it says; nothing more, nothing less. If you want to change what it says because the times have changed, you can't simply reinterpret it to mean something that it does not say (ie., Separation of church and state); you have to amend it to achieve that effect. Me and you can argue all day on this point, but at the end of the day, the principle of separation of church and state that liberals hold so dear is nowhere to be found in the Constitution. All the first Amendment says is this:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."

That phrase means the same thing today that it meant in 1789 when the Constitution was ratified, and that is that Congress cannot establish a national church. If you want it to mean "Separation of church and state" then have it added to the constitution; since that phrase is nowhere to be found within that document, your arguments using the Constitution to support it are laughable.
 
So are we to take the same stand the liberals take and claim the constitution is a living breathing document subject to change at the whim of the people?
 
Ektarr said:
If that's the spin you want to put on it. It may also be that He allows another to lie and lets the individual make up his own mind about things. His allowing Satan to lie to us doesn't make Him the liar, or put Him in collusion. It merely has Him giving us the freedom choice.

I can understand why you reject a belief on God. I'm certainly no Christian Poster Child. But, from an intellectual view, shouldn't you rather keep your mind open than to intellectualize (rationalize?) it away completely? You can rationalize yourself out of practically any argument. Intellectually, you must admit, there's always the remote possibility that you're actually wrong.
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And here's the problem: we can do this forever. Either one has a need to believe or they don't . Obviously you need an invisible sky wizard to watch over you. I see such as superflous to existence.

I could argue the point about the 'one in control' allowing=collusion, but in the end it's pointless. As for a remote possibility--I have a remote possibility of winning big if I gamble (lottery, casino, whatever-doesn't matter) so I should wager my money. After all, you can't win if you don't play. That doesn't change the fact that the game (gambling) is morally bankrupt and a way to take money from someone gullible without providing anything of value in return (kind've like organized religion, don'cha think?)...

Face it: You NEED to believe, why doesn't matter. I don't and can't see why I should pretend.

I'd really rather not continue this as there is no chance of either of us changing the other's mind. We're back to the old saw about teaching a pig to sing...
 
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