John Quincy Adams.

[Sheldon]

Golly the acknowledgment of Muslims as a threat was addressed long ago, I posted a "Tom Jefferson knew" thread now I bump into this, I wonder how many other in our past have likewise articulated in such maters....


John Quincy Adams on Islam

In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar, [i.e. Mohamed] the Egyptian, combining the powers of transcendent genius, with the preternatural energy of a fanatic, and the fraudulent spirit of an impostor, proclaimed himself as a messenger from Heaven, and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth. Adopting from the sublime conception of the Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent God; he connected indissolubly with it, the audacious falsehood, that he was himself his prophet and apostle. Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust, by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. THE ESSENCE OF HIS DOCTRINE WAS VIOLENCE AND LUST: TO EXALT THE BRUTAL OVER THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HUMAN NATURE.

Between these two religions, thus contrasted in their characters, a war of twelve hundred years has already raged. That war is yet flagrant; nor can it cease but by the extinction of that imposture, which has been permitted by Providence to prolong the degeneracy of man. While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon earth, and good will towards men.... that this delusion should have been suffered for so many ages, and during so many generations of human kind, to prevail over the doctrines of the meek and peaceful and benevolent Jesus.



The precept of the koran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force...

 

[sFe]

He is also quoted saying:



"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816

 

[father-of-three]

These days, if you want to know what really happened in the past, you need to get it yourself. What is the saying.....Seek and you shall find? Thank you Sheldon. Ol' John Q always seems to get a bad historical rap. It's good to see him hanging tough for a change. Even though the tone of this is nothing compared to angry Andrew Jackson, I'm sure the reportedly "Moderate Muslim" (I'm still trying to define that in real world terms!) Imam Rauf will turn it into more "Muslim blood on American hands." Even in the early 19th century John Q makes the distinction of how Muslim women are treated....Yikes!

 

[brickler]

Maybe it is just me, and I am missing something, but I am not seeing where John Quincy Adams was the author of the sections that this Dave Miller attributes to being from Adams. The apologeticspress.org doesn't have a link to email the author of the article so I can't confirm from Miller where he drew the conclusion it was Adam's words/opinions or writing.

Anyone else see what I am missing here?
American annual register - Google Books

Page 267 is the start of the section where this first quote comes from. The quote is on page 269

 

[sFe]

Maybe it is just me, and I am missing something, but I am not seeing where John Quincy Adams was the author of the sections that this Dave Miller attributes to being from Adams. The apologeticspress.org doesn't have a link to email the author of the article so I can't confirm from Miller where he drew the conclusion it was Adam's words/opinions or writing.

Anyone else see what I am missing here?
American annual register - Google Books

Page 267 is the start of the section where this first quote comes from. The quote is on page 269

It's a religious site, you shouldn't expect to see any sort evidence/references/factual representation. I do find it funny they try to use an atheist to further their agenda though.

 

[father-of-three]

In my brief search, John Q. was a Unitarian, which can mean a variety of things. I came across several sites claiming that he was not what another site claimed him to be... quite confusing, mind you!
As reported above, it would clarify things a bit better if there was a reference to John Q in the American Annual Register. The Russo-Turkish War was going on at that time, and I am assuming that this was the big issue in Europe after the Napoleonic Wars. From what I was able to surmise, even as a Unitarian and an former ambassador/secretary to a number of European countries, it would make sense for John Q to speak out against the religion of the Turks and thus, be supporting the Russians. I can't prove this, but it seems to make sense in a contextual way.

 

[Sheldon]

He is also quoted saying:



"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816

Humm I didn't know I titled the sub as John Quincy Adams on christianaty.... BOT this is about his observations on the danger of ISLAM.....

 

[sFe]

Humm I didn't know I titled the sub as John Quincy Adams on christianaty.... BOT this is about his observations on the danger of ISLAM.....

Maybe the focus should be christianity,if he believes it is most dangerous, or better yet the dangers of religion.

 

[brickler]

Humm I didn't know I titled the sub as John Quincy Adams on christianaty.... BOT this is about his observations on the danger of ISLAM.....

Sheldon, it does not look like it was through fault of yourself, the article you linked to is titled that and so that is what the page converted the link to.

So the author of the article is claiming that the words are that of Adams.

 

[Sheldon]

Maybe the focus should be christianity,if he believes it is most dangerous, or better yet the dangers of religion.

Well guess what I sub titled it something different, so if you want a Adams on Christianity thread go start one but here keep it on topic or don't post.

 

[father-of-three]

Maybe the focus should be christianity,if he believes it is most dangerous, or better yet the dangers of religion.

Almost anything can be dangerous in some way. Contextually speaking, violent behavior being justfied through religious texts appears to be the most predonimant in the Quran. I know verses can be pulled from just about every kind of text, my point is in which ones make it the clearest.

Ultimately, it's a matter of opinion, but I thought I would contriblute mine!

 

[tcox4freedom]

He is also quoted saying:



"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816

You're correct; Christianty is the bloodiest religion.

[Millions "more" Christians and Jews have been slaughtered and murdered in cold blood by people from other religions.]

 

[JJFlash]

It's a religious site, you shouldn't expect to see any sort evidence/references/factual representation. I do find it funny they try to use an atheist to further their agenda though.

And here I thought the rationale for this forum was that those not interested in, or who have a virulent hatred of, religious discussion would not be exposed to it.

Ol' dopey me...

 

[sFe]

And here I thought the rationale for this forum was that those not interested in, or who have a virulent hatred of, religious discussion would not be exposed to it.

Ol' dopey me...

Yes the discussion for or against it. The only thing i have a hatred for is the constant blasting of anothers religion, especially when there's no one here to defend any of it so it just breeds even more hatred.

 

[Ringo]

And here I thought the rationale for this forum was that those not interested in, or who have a virulent hatred of, religious discussion would not be exposed to it.

Ol' dopey me...

He presents a projection of himself, it's all there in his signature.

 

[Ed Hamberger]

For those who know nothing about Islam attacking America before the 13 Colonies became The United State of American.
Islamic piracy had been plaguing American shipping in the Mediterranean Sea for over 20 years, seizing the cargoes and the sailors, taking both back to Islamic lands and enslaving those American seamen who sometimes could be ransomed.

“Adopting from the sublime conception of the Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent God; he connected indissolubly with it, the audacious falsehood, that he was himself his prophet and apostle. Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared distinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. THE ESSENCE OF HIS DOCTRINE WAS VIOLENCE AND LUST; TO EXALT THE BRUTAL OVER THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HUMAN NATURE (Capitals in original)...Between these two religions, thus contrasted in their characters, a war of twelve hundred years has already raged. The war is yet flagrant...While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon earth, and good will towards men.” John Quincy Adams

And Adams concluded: “As the essential principle of his [Muhammad’s] faith is the subjugation of others by the sword; it is only by force, that his false doctrines can be dispelled, and his power annihilated.”

 

[Ed Hamberger]

Here is another article;

Tripolitan War
Tripolitan War (tripol'itun) [key], 1800–1815, conflict between the United States and the Barbary States. Piracy had become a normal source of income in the N African Barbary States long before the United States came into existence. The new republic adopted the common European practice of paying tribute to buy immunity from raids. Difficulties began in 1800 when William Bainbridge, the officer who took tribute to the dey of Algiers, was compelled to go under the Ottoman flag to Constantinople. When the pasha of Tripoli demanded (1800) more tribute than previously agreed upon, the United States refused payment.

Hostilities broke out in 1801, but Commodore Richard Dale's blockade of Tripoli failed to daunt the pirates. President Thomas Jefferson then decided to settle the affair by negotiation, but his envoy Richard Valentine Morris could not reach an agreement with the pasha. The war continued. Tunis was more or less drawn into the struggle because of ill feeling between the bey's court and William Eaton, the U.S. consul there.

After Eaton and Morris quarreled over the campaign, the blockade of Tripoli was lifted, and the U.S. government considered resuming tribute payments. Edward Preble then succeeded Morris as the U.S. commander in the Mediterranean. Preble dispatched the frigate Philadelphia under Bainbridge to resume the blockade. A storm drove the ship aground. It was captured, and Bainbridge and his crew were imprisoned. Stephen Decatur and a small group of men were sent (Feb., 1804) into the harbor. They set fire to the Philadelphia and destroyed her.

Despite this exploit Preble was still unable to take Tripoli, and, in Sept., 1804, he was succeeded by Samuel Barron. Meanwhile William Eaton had convinced the U.S. government of his plan for supporting a rival claimant for the rule of Tripoli by a land expedition. Eaton landed in Egypt and after an arduous march took the port of Derna. Before he could advance farther, the war was ended. John Rodgers, sent out with a strong force in May, 1805, negotiated a settlement in June. The U.S. prisoners were ransomed, and Tripoli renounced all rights to halt or to levy tribute on American ships.

Though the most favorable agreement yet made with a Barbary power, the treaty was not a brilliant triumph and did not end the threat of piracy to U.S. shipping. During the later Napoleonic Wars and the War of 1812, the pirates increased their raids on American commerce. Algiers actually declared war on the United States. In 1815 a squadron under Decatur forced the dey of Algiers to sign a treaty renouncing U.S. tribute, and the so-called Algerine War was ended. After 1815 the United States no longer paid tribute to any Barbary State.

See G. W. Allen, Our Navy and the Barbary Corsairs (1905, repr. 1965); D. B. Chidsey, The Wars in Barbary (1971); F. Lambert, The Barbary Wars (2005); R. Zacks, The Pirate Coast (2005).

 

[father-of-three]

Mr. Hamberger, if there is some way of including "Professor of American History" in your credentials, I would second the motion for it! Thanks for the history lesson.

Thomas Jefferson knew all to well what the political idiots of our day choose to ignore: keep the terrorists off of US soil and kill them on their own soil! No constitutional rights for enemy combatents wearing no uniform, thank you.

It took me a few years to figure it out, but most excellent history lesson above is why "To the shores of Tripoli" is in the Marine's Hymn. I have learned so much about history AFTER 20 years of schooling!

 

[Sheldon]

Great post Ed and thanks for your past service to our country....

 

[sFe]

Great post Ed and thanks for your past service to our country....

Out of curiosity where is the quote you have by Father Corapi actually attributed to him?