Jailed for Saving a Life

[longslide10]

So I guess it's best to be selfish and not help your neighbor. What do you think? What would you have done? Should the charges be dropped against Jones? Did he do the right thing or should he have just knocked on the door and said police are on their way?

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[Firefighterchen]

So I guess it's best to be selfish and not help your neighbor. What do you think? What would you have done? Should the charges be dropped against Jones? Did he do the right thing or should he have just knocked on the door and said police are on their way?

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Well...according to recent other cases, calling the cops is playing cops..so no he should of just listened to her being murdered. Then eventually a missing persons report would surface and then the police could investigate the apartment. Don't want anyone playing cops now, ya hear? Just take good notes at the sounds you are listening to so when the police arrive you can be a good witness...*sarcasm*

This kind of goes along the lines of the recent case a homeowner shot through his front door, hitting the perp in the pelvis...in that case it's a lot safer to say what was behind door #1...but this one goes along the lines of "know your target and what's in back/front of it". I do not believe he should be charged...but I do wonder if he tried to open the door before shooting through it?

 

[Black Dragon]

It's not that he tried to save her it's that he missed one of the important rules of firearms safety; Know your target and what's beyond it.
You are resposible for every bullet that leave your muzzle.

He could have just as easily kick the door in instead of trying to shoot the lock off like they do in the movies. Locks in apartments, and most houses for that matter, aren't all that hard to kick in, the door frames are usually made of wood or thin metal and they can't take a lot of punishment.

 

[santa]

No he should NOT be charged. But as Firefighterchen said did he even try the door? At the least KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE SHOOTING AT. If you miss, what will you hit? This is a good example of not thinking and preparing yourself to act when the time comes to use(or NOT use) your gun.

 

[The_Outlaw]

His intentions where good, but he seems to have overstepped his bounds.

Better to just call 911 and give dispatch the play by play of events as they unfolded imho.

 

[lc9'er]

just plain dumb

I live in this small town. Our police normally sit at the entrance to town, which is 30 seconds from the door of the apartment in question.

He was playing cowboy.

 

[Firefighterchen]

I live in this small town. Our police normally sit at the entrance to town, which is 30 seconds from the door of the apartment in question.

He was playing cowboy.

Lol now its playing cowboy instead of cop...oh geez...

 

[Firefighterchen]

His intentions where good, but he seems to have overstepped his bounds.

Better to just call 911 and give dispatch the play by play of events as they unfolded imho.

I can just see it now...

Dispatcher: 911 whats your emergency?

Caller: I hear a female screaming next door...i think she is in trouble...

Dispatcher: Okay, whats your address? Don't do anything rash now, do you think her life is in danger?

Caller: (address), yes she is screaming for help.

Dispatcher: Ok, don't go over there, just tell us what is going on, police are on the way.

Caller: Ok, she is screaming he has a knife.

Dispatcher: Ok, police are on the way.

Caller: Oh, I think she just got stabbed. She is making a wierd sound now.

Dispatcher: Ok, police are on the way. They should be there in a few minutes.

Caller: Ok, I think he just stabbed her again....and again.....

Dispatcher: Ok, police are on the way. They should be there in a couple minutes.

Caller: I hear something being dragged.....oh sounds like he stabbed her again...

Dispatcher: Ok, police should be there any minute, they are right down the street.


What do you guys think? Pretty close?

>>

 

[Black Dragon]

I live in this small town. Our police normally sit at the entrance to town, which is 30 seconds from the door of the apartment in question.

He was playing cowboy.

Just because the police normally sit at the entrance to town doesn't mean they'll get there in 30 seconds. A call must be made, the situation must be explained to the dispatcher, the dispatcher has to relay that information to the officer(s). The officer has to drive to the scene. It can take a few minutes even if the officer is "30 seconds away".
How long can you take a beating or be choked before it's to late?
If you are in that situation do you want people to stand there and watch as you get beat or would you like at least one person to help you?

Granted I believe the guy went over board but we don't have all the facts.

 

[SGB]

Shooting at the lock was a stupid thing to do. I have no doubt he'll take a misd plea with adjudication being withheld until completion of his probation.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Wot SGB sed.

While two counts of attempted murder and one count of attempted kidnapping (apparently because he said he wanted to hold the perpetrator at gun point until police arrived) is way over-charging him, he still acted foolishly and recklessly, so I don't see him getting off scot-free.

A shotgun breech is not the simple matter Hollywood shoot-em-ups portray them to be. It's a specialized skill and generally requires specialized equipment. All shotgun breeches I've seen from real life used a shotgun firing a slug, and the deadbolt is the strongest point on most doors. Trying to shoot it out was stupid. Did he even get in after his attempted breech? It looked like the thing held, as I would expect it to.

Since this was in his own apartment building, he should have been able to guess how many hinges there were on that front door and where they would be. It's also reasonable that someone inside attempting to get outside would be right there at the lock side of the door, Blowing the top hinge first would be far less likely to find a human backstop and would have given any humans in the vicinity a clue to avoid the door for the time being, allowing him to blow the other hinge(s) in relative(!) safety. I would also question the efficacy of attempting a shotgun breech while firing at an angle. Keeping the shotgun as close to perpendicular to the door as possible would deliver the maximum amount of energy to those weak points helping to insure as clean a breech as possible.

I think one count of misdemeanor reckless endangerment, 100 hours of community service, and a requirement to pass a SWAT course in shotgun breeching techniques would be a just outcome for him. When it comes down to it, much poor decision making can be forgiven when both the intent and outcome is the saving of human life. Much, not necessarily all.

 

[nogods]

We need a "shoot what you found" law so that law abiding citizens can't be arrested for shooting other people.

 

[LkWd_Don]

Just because the police normally sit at the entrance to town doesn't mean they'll get there in 30 seconds. A call must be made, the situation must be explained to the dispatcher, the dispatcher has to relay that information to the officer(s). The officer has to drive to the scene. It can take a few minutes even if the officer is "30 seconds away".
How long can you take a beating or be choked before it's to late?
If you are in that situation do you want people to stand there and watch as you get beat or would you like at least one person to help you?

Granted I believe the guy went over board but we don't have all the facts.

I know that relying on the police for everything is a mistake, especially when seconds count, not knowing all the facts before forming a conclusion is also a mistake. So I think we should wait, watch and see where it goes.

 

[walt629]

As stupid as it sounds... yeah.. I probably would have done the same thing with the exception of yelling to get away from the door 'cause I'm coming in. Judging by the picture in the report, I think I would have elected to breech a little differently. I've been told I'm irrational so maybe I am.

 

[The_Outlaw]

I can just see it now...

Dispatcher: 911 whats your emergency?

Caller: I hear a female screaming next door...i think she is in trouble...

Dispatcher: Okay, whats your address? Don't do anything rash now, do you think her life is in danger?

Caller: (address), yes she is screaming for help.

Dispatcher: Ok, don't go over there, just tell us what is going on, police are on the way.

Caller: Ok, she is screaming he has a knife.

Dispatcher: Ok, police are on the way.

Caller: Oh, I think she just got stabbed. She is making a wierd sound now.

Dispatcher: Ok, police are on the way. They should be there in a few minutes.

Caller: Ok, I think he just stabbed her again....and again.....

Dispatcher: Ok, police are on the way. They should be there in a couple minutes.

Caller: I hear something being dragged.....oh sounds like he stabbed her again...

Dispatcher: Ok, police should be there any minute, they are right down the street.


What do you guys think? Pretty close?

>>

And we know that this is exactly what would have happened.......how exactly??

Look dude, I'm not breaking and entering ANYONES home for any reason, unless maybe it's a family members or my very best friends house and they are the ones who are in immediate danger.

Otherwise, I'll just stay on the phone with dispatch and keep them advised of what I am observing until the cops arrive on scene.

However,
'if' I my neighbor is being seriously hurt and attacked by said nutjob outside, then I'll do what needs to be done if I am able to.

 

[Firefighterchen]

I can just see it now...

Dispatcher: 911 whats your emergency?

Caller: I hear a female screaming next door...i think she is in trouble...

Dispatcher: Okay, whats your address? Don't do anything rash now, do you think her life is in danger?

Caller: (address), yes she is screaming for help.

Dispatcher: Ok, don't go over there, just tell us what is going on, police are on the way.

Caller: Ok, she is screaming he has a knife.

Dispatcher: Ok, police are on the way.

Caller: Oh, I think she just got stabbed. She is making a wierd sound now.

Dispatcher: Ok, police are on the way. They should be there in a few minutes.

Caller: Ok, I think he just stabbed her again....and again.....

Dispatcher: Ok, police are on the way. They should be there in a couple minutes.

Caller: I hear something being dragged.....oh sounds like he stabbed her again...

Dispatcher: Ok, police should be there any minute, they are right down the street.


What do you guys think? Pretty close?

>>

And we know that this is exactly what would have happened.......how exactly??

Look dude, I'm not breaking and entering ANYONES home for any reason, unless maybe it's a family members or my very best friends house and they are the ones who are in immediate danger.

Otherwise, I'll just stay on the phone with dispatch and keep them advised of what I am observing until the cops arrive on scene.

However,
'if' I my neighbor is being seriously hurt and attacked by said nutjob outside, then I'll do what needs to be done if I am able to.

Sorry outlaw, didn't mean to sound like I was calling you out. Just being a smart guy about the "police are on their way" bit that victims are fed for 5-10 minutes before they get murdered.

I don't mind your choice at all, not my choice, but either way works. I do want to reiterate the importance of trying to open the door before blowing holes through it though.

 

[Caribou]

This guy saved a life. If a cop had done this would we be discussing it? Would the cop have been arrested, or would he have received a medal? It would have been nice if he had used a breaching round out of a shotgun set up for breaching. While we are at it lets wish for a breaching team behind him. He used what he had at hand in a manner that seemed best at the time to him.

I would suggest that we are looking at competing harms. Where it would normally be a crime to shoot blindly into a room that someone is in, in this case he had a reasonable belief that a woman's life was at stake. He was right and the woman is alive today because of his actions. None of his pellets hit anyone so there is no harm to consider this way. If he had shot and killed the woman this would be a different story. If is an awful big word and we can play the if game all day. What I feel is important is that he stuck his neck out, made some hard decisions, saved a life, and got arrested for his actions. The problem with competing harms is that it is an affirmative defense. Unless the DA drops the case a jury will decide if this action is a worthy defense.

This woman should be grateful that she doesn't live next door to many of us. I do not exclude myself as I may well have been a "good witness". Of all the neighbors that were aware of a problem only one responded. Do we excoriate the hero? This man had no duty to respond. Nothing indicated that the cops were on scene when he got that door open or how long after before they arrived.

I lived in a town where the cop shop was at one end of the block and the fire department was almost at the other end. You didn't even have to cross the street to go from one to the other. FD response times were typically under five minutes and always under ten. PD response times typically started at twenty minutes and went up from there. Let me relate one ambulance call I was on. A call came in for a possible dead man. Less than three minutes later I reported on scene. Shortly thereafter I determined that the man was in fact dead and called it in. Twenty minutes or so later the cops come up in a big hurry and take over the scene. In that community 911 calls go to the police then the fire and EMS calls are forwarded to the fire department. The cops are a block closer to the call than EMS, they knew the nature of the call before we did and they show up close to half an hour after we do. This call was about two blocks from the FD and a little over a block from the PD. This is a long way around the tree to say that I do not consider the proximity of the police to be a factor.

I can't tell you that what this man did was smart but early reports suggest that it was right. I would bet that right now there is a woman who is extremely grateful and a man wondering why he bothered and how much he will have to spend on attorneys.

 

[nogods]

"I need to shoot this lock off this door, kick the door in and go in and hold him at gunpoint,"

Some people watch too much TV.

 

[CapGun]

Well we should all be thinking of all ramifications before we pull the trigger. Not easy to do but something we must strive for. Maybe then it might come to you that shooting is just not the best thing to do. Now having said that seems he definitely saved her live.
The police quote>>>Hendersonville Police said Jones may have been trying to help, but he could have killed someone.
Guess it might go easier on you if you kill someone on purpose like her boyfriend might have.:sarcastic:

 

[kelcarry]

Know the law in your state. In SC, we have Alter Ego, which goes along way toward absolving Chase of a problem, although shooting blindly at the door was insane and reckless. From what I read there were quite a few witnesses to this whole incident who would testify that the lady was in imminent danger of death or great bodily injury--alter ego would have allowed Chase to assume the attack was on him and he can then use self defense to act on the boyfriend as if he was being attacked. Regardless of whether TN has alter ego or not, any kind of incident, where you are the third party becomes an issue for the police on scene and the prosecutor. I would hope, based on the way I read this, that the preponderance of evidence from witnesses makes his actions, although a bit reckless on shooting blindly at a door, clearly an action that saved a life.