It’s Time to Let Military Members Carry Firearms on US Soil


Oldgrunt

Well-known member
I don't know if the Commander had his weapon in his office or not but, given the rules of today, he might be in deep kimchee for using it in defense of his own life and others. Weird situation and, rather than commending him for taking action, he could possibly face punishment. Hopefully there are enough sane people in his chain of command that will go to bat for him!
 

XD40scinNC

New member
I don't know if the Commander had his weapon in his office or not but, given the rules of today, he might be in deep kimchee for using it in defense of his own life and others. Weird situation and, rather than commending him for taking action, he could possibly face punishment. Hopefully there are enough sane people in his chain of command that will go to bat for him!

But as they say, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

(and yes I know that court martial don't have juries)
 

Oldgrunt

Well-known member
This article from the NRA gives an idea of what we can expect in support of our troops here at home. Nothing! Threats to service members are real, as evidenced by a note left on the automobile of an airman outside Dobbins AFB, Marietta, GA. The note called him a coward and threatened him and others with death. If Muslims are so bold to post threats on a person's POV, I would think it would also be prudent to allow military members the right to defend themselves and families.




No Support for Military Right-to-Carry from Obama, Everytown, and Odierno

Wednesday, July 22, 2015



Support for allowing military personnel to carry firearms for self-protection following the terrorist attack upon military personnel in Chattanooga last week has been strongly declared by several presidential candidates, is building in Congress, and has already taken shape for National Guardsmen in several states. However, the same can’t be said for the usual and not-so-usual suspects.

In his off-the-cuff remarks about the Chattanooga attack, President Obama said only that he would consider “what further precautions we can take in the future.”

We have come to expect such as this from Obama. However, we expect better from the Army Chief of Staff, even one that Obama hand-picked for the job. On Friday, July 17, USNews.com reported that Army Chief of Staff Gen. Ray Odierno appeared to oppose allowing military personnel to be armed, saying “we have to be careful about over-arming ourselves,” because of the possibility of “accidental discharges and everything else that goes along with having weapons that are loaded that causes injuries.” In making such a statement, Odierno not only expresses a demoralizing lack of confidence in the soldiers he commands, he also inspires a lack of soldiers’ confidence in his ability to lead, because accidental discharges are reduced by training, and training is something for which he, as Chief of Staff, is ultimately responsible.


Expressing an even greater lack of faith in our troops—though considering the source, no one in uniform should consider it worthy of the term “insult”—is the editorial arm of Michael Bloomberg’s Everytown for Gun Safety. On Monday, Bloomberg’s TheTrace.org said that advocating that military personnel carry guns for protection is nothing more than a “political sound bite” that “does not hold up well under fact-checking.”

Bloomberg and his hirelings are hardly in a position to point fingers about “political sound bites” that don’t hold up to “fact-checking.” Their one-liners on background checks and other gun control issues have been taken to task by fact-checkers from the Washington Post (April 2, 2013), the Tampa Bay Tribune (July 25, 2012, Jan. 30, 2013, June 13, 2014,) the Richmond Times-Dispatch (Aug. 27, 2013, Sept. 6, 2013, April 28, 2015), the Atlanta Journal-Constitution (Sept. 18, 2013, Dec. 19, 2014, May 12, 2015), and the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (Feb. 3, 2013).


On to the substance of TheTrace’s claims, the website says, “Most service members . . . are not in direct combat roles, but instead are technical workers whose specialties support those ‘tip of the spear’ troops. These include navigators, supply clerks, water purification specialists, and camera crews.” This only demonstrates the anti-gunners’ profound ignorance of military operations during the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Throughout those conflicts, combat support, combat service support and other troops not in infantry roles participated in countless missions, often alongside their infantry counterparts, took fire, and returned it.

Furthermore, many Americans in the active-duty and reserve armed forces have their own firearms, attend training courses, practice extensively, and participate in defensive skills-based marksmanship competitions. Arguably, military personnel today are more skilled with small arms than at any time in U.S. history.

TheTrace says “military security experts know better,” so to test that theory we asked three former U.S. Army Special Forces (Delta) soldiers, all combat veterans with awards for valor, who are the founders and operators of some of the best defensive firearm training schools in the country, what they think about allowing military personnel to be armed.

Sergeant Major Kyle Lamb, of Viking Tactics, told us “Americans always have the right to protect themselves, and that is no less true in this day and age, when terrorists are attacking us on American soil. More Americans carrying firearms has helped reduced crime, and allowing those who serve in uniform to carry as well, will increase safety for us all.”

Master Sergeant Larry Vickers, of Vickers Tactical, told us, “Military personnel being armed and carrying is not only the right thing to do it’s the sensible thing to do. Military personnel have taken an oath to uphold and defend our way of life, and show unmatched determination and courage when confronted with danger. I find it ridiculous for anyone to think otherwise.”

Master Sergeant Paul R. Howe, of Combat Shooting and Tactics, told us, “There are many things that can be done to increase the safety of military personnel in off-base locations, starting with off-duty police officers armed with AR-15s while new policies are adopted for military personnel, to be followed with allowing military personnel who obtain state concealed carry permits and training to carry handguns.”

We think SGM Lamb, MSG Vickers and MSG Howe agree, with millions of other Americans, that people have a fundamental right to self-defense, and that they do not lose that right when they put on the uniforms of our armed forces.

The reality is that attacks upon our military personnel, like the one in Chattanooga, have not been random events. Our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines have been targeted because of the uniforms they wear and the country they represent. The last thing America needs to hear on this subject is two-bit sniping from the anti-gun peanut gallery and their witting and unwitting allies in positions of leadership


https://www.nraila.org/articles/201...ght-to-carry-from-obama-everytown-and-odierno
 

bofh

Banned

Hawkeye638

New member
As soon as the US Army come on line with certifying Military Police to carry under LEOSA I will apply do to so seeing that I am a retired MP. In an ironic twist, with the DoD qualifying me to carry under LEOSA, I will be able to carry in all 50 states EXCEPT on DoD installations. Comparing this to a Concealed Carry Permit here in Delaware, it would like the state telling me my permit is valid everywhere except Delaware. Does not make a whole lot of sense now does it?
 

SR9

New member
And now I heard they want to bring charges against the Navy Commander that shot Abdulazeez, because they say he had a gun in a "No Gun Zone". Well I'm damn glad somebody did, or there would have been a lot more of our guys shot. He should have been awarded and Congressional Medal Of Honor.
 

bofh

Banned
And now I heard they want to bring charges against the Navy Commander that shot Abdulazeez, because they say he had a gun in a "No Gun Zone". Well I'm damn glad somebody did, or there would have been a lot more of our guys shot. He should have been awarded and Congressional Medal Of Honor.

From Link Removed:

...

Ladies and gents, resulting from the text message I received yesterday, I can confirm that the United States Navy is bringing charges against Lt. Cmdr Timothy White for illegally discharging a firearm on federal property.

...

From Roy Exum: Navy Denies Any Charges - Chattanoogan.com:

UPDATE: A spokesman for the U.S. Navy on Sunday denied reports that disciplinary charges will be filed against Lt. Cmdr. Timothy White for discharging an unauthorized weapon on federal property.

According to a post of Facebook and other social media sites, a statement reads, “Stories of Navy personnel being charges with an offense are not true. There is still a long way to go in reviewing the facts of this tragic incident, but at this time we can confirm no service member has been charged with an offense.”

Several news outlets, including this one, jumped on a report by national columnist Allen West on Saturday that stated he was enraged after he had confirmed that LTC White, who drew his personal sidearm in the July 16 terrorist attack on a Navy Reserve Center in Chattanooga, would face a reprimand and could possibly be court marshaled.

...
 

Oldgrunt

Well-known member
I just read on allenbwest.com that LCDR White had contacted him about disciplinary action that was forthcoming. Damn shame when a military member isn't allowed to protect himself and the others at the Center with a weapon. After all, aren't they military? Doesn't the military use weapons for defense anymore?
 

XD40scinNC

New member
Unlike the hospital in PA where a doctor stopped an active shooter with his gun, counter to hospital policy, I really believe the military will remain stuck on stupid and in denial that GFZ's are nothing but target rich environments for whack jobs, and will ruin this officers career and life.

The doc in the PA hospital was not fired or prosecuted and if I remember correctly the policy was changed.
 

CCWFan

New member
When I Recruited

My first ever duty station in the Navy was at a recruiting center in Houston. I was on temporary assignment for 90 days waiting to "class-up" for my training. As a boot Ensign, I pretty much did paperwork shuffling and busy work. While there I got my Concealed Handgun License. I joked offhandedly that I would now feel safe in the area of town that our center was located. It took 0 seconds for the salty Senior Chief to tell me getting caught with a weapon would be a quick way to reduce my Navy career to nothing at best and a stint in the brig at worst. I thought it was BS then and I think it's even more so now.
 

dogshawred

New member
Doing what I can.

I have watched this unfold since the Chattanooga shooting with great concern and wonder. As a veteran from the Vietnam era, even though I never left the states, I was fully aware of what can happen when you aren’t really looking. The NAS where I was stationed was infiltrated by the underground group Weatherman, twice. Both times they were caught before damage could be done, but it makes you think about what could happen.
~
Since Thursday, July 23rd, I have been standing watch at the local Armed Force Career Center here in Ohio.
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Yes, I was assumed a threat until checked out by local PD. I had spoken to the recruiters on the 22nd and knew what to expect the following day. So I simple stopped at the PD and let them know of my intentions and allowed them to take my information. They accompanied me to the site and spoke with the recruiters about my being there on their property (an out lot at a local mall that is privately owned). He wasn’t sure who owned the property, knowing the mall ownership would have had a problem with my being their armed open or otherwise. The PD has been supportive, yet not a direct help. I do see them drive by, but not frequently.
~
Second day, after getting permission from the property leaser, I moved off the lot to an adjacent property for a better vantage point visually and tactically.
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It is very difficult to look outward when you don’t have a defined perimeter and you are alone.
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Although the recruiters Army and Marine by protocol are not allowed to acknowledge me. They have been appreciative of my presence and have cordial. From conversation I believe they themselves will honor their oath and stand with citizens in protection of The Constitution.
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The local paper did an article on veterans guarding Recruiting Centers nationally and offered an opinion piece the same day in support of those who have answered that call on July 30th.
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Armed citizen volunteers to guard New Philadelphia recruiting center - News - Times Reporter - New Philadelphia, OH
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I’ve chosen to appear as civilian as possible; I display only a handgun but have an AR lying on my trunk lid available. My only concern is security, not being overly political. My hope is that the citizens will become aware that there are veterans/citizens that are ready to step up to help our unarmed recruiters. Locals have showed appreciation by moral support as well as physical aid (food and fluids).
~
I am retired and I have the time, even though I am disabled, I feel compelled to offer what assistance I can. I urge others to do what they can, however they can.
 

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