It Starts With a Punch


kelcarry

New member
Situational awareness has been mentioned. Walking away has been mentioned. Never being somewhere you should not be in the first place (kind of like situational awareness and part of the Plaxico Burris rule--"if you needed a gun to go in there, why did you go in there in the first place?") has been mentioned. Imminent threat to death or great bodily injury is preeminent and has been mentioned. Then and only then does your firearm come out and it comes out to use it, not to brandish it or show it off, or fire at someone's hubcaps or fire in the air--it comes out to defend yourself and if you are trained well, it comes out to alter the lifestyle of the puncher.
 

Umm people have died from one punch clear sight
Can you show statistics?

People have likely died from drowning in a bowl of soup. I'm not sure where you're from but justification in my state: So, would a reasonable person consider an unarmed battery (a punch) to fear death or great bodily harm? I wouldn't think so but maybe I'm unreasonable...

The killing is in self defense if:

1. There was an appearance of immediate danger of death or great bodily harm to the defendant as a result of __________________3; and

2. The defendant was in fact put in fear by the apparent danger of immediate death or great bodily harm and killed __________________ (name of victim) because of that fear; and

3. A reasonable person in the same circumstances as the defendant would have acted as the defendant did.
 
Never being somewhere you should not be in the first place (kind of like situational awareness and part of the Plaxico Burris rule--"if you needed a gun to go in there, why did you go in there in the first place?") has been mentioned.

Because my favorite resteraunt happens to be in a non upscale part of town I should avoid going there? Just saying, I don't buy into that one, as in my opinion you need a gun to go anywhere...
 

Treo

Bullet Proof
Can you show statistics?

Statistics no anecdotal evidence yes.

Link Removed

Link Removed

Killed by one punch; Thug laughed after unprovoked street attack led to death of student and 'outstanding' sportsman. - Free Online Library

Clearly, it happens. The question is are you going to stand there and wait to see if you become the next statistic?

Common sense dictates that you don't shoot every one that squares up on you but common sense also dictates that you would avoid 90% of these problems by not trifling w/ people you don't know.

Maybe I live in a different world than you do but if somebody I don't know decides they want to get that involved in my life I take it seriously. For someone to go that crazy on you out of nowhere is not a rational act , you have no way of knowing what a person like that is capable of or what they are going to do.

Also I'm heading past middle age. My boxing years are long behind me I doubt very seriously I could hold my own against a pissed off 20 something and once he's got you down how do you know when he's going to decide you've had enough?
 
Statistics no anecdotal evidence yes.

Link Removed

Link Removed

Killed by one punch; Thug laughed after unprovoked street attack led to death of student and 'outstanding' sportsman. - Free Online Library

Clearly, it happens. The question is are you going to stand there and wait to see if you become the next statistic?

Common sense dictates that you don't shoot every one that squares up on you but common sense also dictates that you would avoid 90% of these problems by not trifling w/ people you don't know.

Maybe I live in a different world than you do but if somebody I don't know decides they want to get that involved in my life I take it seriously. For someone to go that crazy on you out of nowhere is not a rational act , you have no way of knowing what a person like that is capable of or what they are going to do.

Also I'm heading past middle age. My boxing years are long behind me I doubt very seriously I could hold my own against a pissed off 20 something and once he's got you down how do you know when he's going to decide you've had enough?

I concede on the "one punch" killing joke. Apparently it is more preveleant than I thought.

I guess I have a different outlook, I deal with pissed off fools that want to fight every day.
 

JJFlash

New member
I concede on the "one punch" killing joke. Apparently it is more preveleant than I thought.

I guess I have a different outlook, I deal with pissed off fools that want to fight every day.

Wierd thing is, there just don't seem to be "fist fights" anymore. No, no stats, but how many times have you seen, heard, read, where someone gets punched, goes down, and then gets stomped? Had a guy here in recent years get his head kicked so bad there was brain matter splattered on cars in the parking lot. He died. The "kid" who did it was an innocuous-looking little runt, who was a freakin' nursing student at the U. Go figure.

Or the weapons come out (knives, clubs, guns, etc.). IMO, the old concept of an "honorable" fist fight being used to settle a difference between men is going and gone. One reason why I will allow no one to punch me.
 

Nightmare45

NRA LIFE MEMBER
Assuming you can protect yourself unarmed, I can, assuming you carry, I do, assuming you can avoid the encounter, I will try, the response should be use no more force than is necessay to end the encounter.
 

kelcarry

New member
Hey Clear: My reference to Plaxico Burris obviously deals more with the specific places you go to and not necessarily the neighborhood, although I would think that if your favorite is in a bad neighborhood, your situational awareness level will be a higher degree of sensitivity than elsewhere. When you decide to walk into some sort of bar that has a history of violence, common sense tells me that you should not be going there and if you do, and find it necessary to CC (legal or not), then I would question your sensibilities, like the NFL did with Mr. Burris.
 

asaling

New member
Hey Clear: My reference to Plaxico Burris obviously deals more with the specific places you go to and not necessarily the neighborhood, although I would think that if your favorite is in a bad neighborhood, your situational awareness level will be a higher degree of sensitivity than elsewhere. When you decide to walk into some sort of bar that has a history of violence, common sense tells me that you should not be going there and if you do, and find it necessary to CC (legal or not), then I would question your sensibilities, like the NFL did with Mr. Burris.



+1 :pleasantry:
 

Edsworld

New member
Them places you should avoid are like that because people like us avoid them.

The crimial elements should not be allowed to control any place.
 

Treo

Bullet Proof
Them places you should avoid are like that because people like us avoid them.

The crimial elements should not be allowed to control any place.

I wasn't aware that a CHP imputed any police authority to me and I am absolutely positive it imputes no responsibility to do the police's job to me
 

JJFlash

New member
I wasn't aware that a CHP imputed any police authority to me and I am absolutely positive it imputes no responsibility to do the police's job to me

For sure. Ed's point is well-taken, however, in the context of "Why should we cede our liberty, our freedom of movement, to the ne'er-do-wells"? I present this only in a philosphical sense, however, as I feel no compulsion to be personally "cleaning up" any bad inner-city neighborhoods, for example. Should I have to traverse such neighborhoods in order to conduct my business, I will do so, however (fortunately, I can avoid that, but, again, point well-taken).
 

Edsworld

New member
I wasn't aware that a CHP imputed any police authority to me and I am absolutely positive it imputes no responsibility to do the police's job to me

Yep. Every man for himself. Just stay in your safe place. The police are not here to protect you. They are here to make an arrest after the crime has been committed.

If you can let criminals take a neighborhood, just think what a foreign army can take.
 

Edsworld

New member
You do not have go around playing cop, but you should not avoid place because you are scared of being confronted. That is why these places are the way they are. If people would quit bowing down to these criminals, they would have no power.
 

G50AE

Well-known member
IMO, the old concept of an "honorable" fist fight being used to settle a difference between men is going and gone. One reason why I will allow no one to punch me.

IMHO, their never was an "honorable" fist fight concept. If you can't settle a dispute with someone through negotiation, mediation, or litigation, how is hitting them with your fists, feet, elbows, et cetera going to settle it? Answer, it isn't, you are just behaving childish.
 

dacaur

New member
First of course, it depends on where you live, what the laws are in your area. Where I live, I can use deadly force if "a reasonable person" would be in fear of bodily harm or death.
utah code 76-2-402. Force in defense of person -- Forcible felony defined.
(1) (a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that force or a threat of force is necessary to defend the person or a third person against another person's imminent use of unlawful force.
(b) A person is justified in using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury only if the person reasonably believes that force is necessary to prevent death or serious bodily injury to the person or a third person as a result of another person's imminent use of unlawful force, or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.


That said, I agree with some that in the SPECIFIC scenario outlined by the OP, deadly force is probably not the right option... there is little chance of him beating you to death in a crowded restaurant.

In other circumstances though, deadly force could be called for when "it starts with a punch" say you are on a dark lonely street, you know what what the attacker has planned after the first punch, and anyone with half a brain and a ccw wont wait to find out.

A similar scenario just came to conclusion in florida a few days ago.... No charges filed.. Link Removed
 

JJFlash

New member
IMHO, their never was an "honorable" fist fight concept. If you can't settle a dispute with someone through negotiation, mediation, or litigation, how is hitting them with your fists, feet, elbows, et cetera going to settle it? Answer, it isn't, you are just behaving childish.

Really? Growing up, I've seen many an "issue" settled by fisticuffs or the threat thereof.

Negotiation and mediation? How the hell does that work in real life? We're not talking liberal college professors stalking across campus to the "mediation center", here. We're talking situations in which violence is gonna occur. So, how would you like it...guns, knives, clubs, or fists?
 
Really? Growing up, I've seen many an "issue" settled by fisticuffs or the threat thereof.

Negotiation and mediation? How the hell does that work in real life? We're not talking liberal college professors stalking across campus to the "mediation center", here. We're talking situations in which violence is gonna occur. So, how would you like it...guns, knives, clubs, or fists?

Long time buddy!

I gotta agree with the opposing on this. I've been called out many times for various stupid stuff usually when on duty. I've swallowed my pride and reasoned with someone or even just left.

I do agree with you, if someone is intent on physically fighting with me i'd rather they come at me with bare knuckles than a weapon, which is what I think you were implying by "honorable". Maybe not exactly the honorable thing to do, but usually no one dies, and just sustains some bruises on their body and their ego.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
49,437
Messages
623,667
Members
74,275
Latest member
zxclord123
Top