Israeli draw!

[festus]

YouTube - AGI 301 The Israeli Instinctive Combat Shooting Method

 

[father-of-three]

With some offensive maneuvers!
There was a nice video link to a news clip about how "No gun" sign in places like schools just invite "bad guys" to go there and cause trouble. It wasn't an anti-gun clip, so it was nice to see common sense getting out to the public!

 

[Bighouse Doc]

I don't go for the slide pulling first.

I might need that hand for something else!

A totally unnecessary action.

-Doc

 

[JJFlash]

I don't go for the slide pulling first.

I might need that hand for something else!

A totally unnecessary action.

-Doc

I gotta agree. My training is to lift and immediately rotate a weapon (with one already in the tube) out of the strong side holster. At this point, the business end of the firearm is already pointed at the BG and you can commence firing even before you're at the "formal fire" position. And you still have that free hand, should you need it. I don't see how you can be any faster and more "economical in action" than that. Course we're talking split second differencess here so I may be splitting hairs, and if someone feel more comfortable without one in the tube (not me), that's another issue.

I know a lot of people, who are light years ahead of me in "gunmanship", like this method, so obviously there's something to it. I'd like to be formally trained in it some time and see. Always good to try new things and maybe learn a thing or two.

 

[amrote]

It's like any other method out there today. You have those who live and die by it and those who could care less. I have trained with those who eat, sleep, and breathe this method. Good for them, for me not so much. I am not a fan of this form of carry. I understand there are those who claim it is a safety issue, but if you train and practice the fundamental of safe weapons handling you have nothing to worry about. I have been carrying a gun professionally for the last 14 years and have never seen a ND. The question I have if you get wounded in your primary hand, how are you gonna get your weapon out of your holster, chamber a round, and engage in time to win the fight?

 

[festus]

Israeli draw lessons learned

If you are wounded chances are you have already lost. Israeli draw works best as racking the slide as the weapon is presented. I figure it this way...If I am carrying groceries etc they are going to be on the floor when the SHTF. If you carry carry with what you are most comfortable and well trained as. I am not concerned with stealth. I am not concerned with shooting before I move.
i will be moving laterally while drawing, racking, shooting.
Remember you can not miss fast enough to win a gunfight. Keep a calm head. Perform just like you have trained. You'll have a FIGHTING CHANCE!

 

[JJFlash]

If you are wounded chances are you have already lost. Israeli draw works best as racking the slide as the weapon is presented. I figure it this way...If I am carrying groceries etc they are going to be on the floor when the SHTF. If you carry carry with what you are most comfortable and well trained as. I am not concerned with stealth. I am not concerned with shooting before I move.
i will be moving laterally while drawing, racking, shooting.
Remember you can not miss fast enough to win a gunfight. Keep a calm head. Perform just like you have trained. You'll have a FIGHTING CHANCE!

You train with this method, then, Festus? A question: In the heat of the moment, in a real bad scenario, do you not worry about the possibilty of say, only half-racking the pistol? That's one concern I would have. I know training, training, training, is the key but I'm taught that you are, when under real stress, at best only about 50% as proficient as you are on the range. So...that "racking" would be the first thing I would worry about going wrong.

 

[festus]

Half racking is not a worry

You train with this method, then, Festus? A question: In the heat of the moment, in a real bad scenario, do you not worry about the possibilty of say, only half-racking the pistol? That's one concern I would have. I know training, training, training, is the key but I'm taught that you are, when under real stress, at best only about 50% as proficient as you are on the range. So...that "racking" would be the first thing I would worry about going wrong.

The way i present ensures full slide travel. My biggest concern is keeping the target centered while moving out of his line of fire

 

[JJFlash]

The way i present ensures full slide travel. My biggest concern is keeping the target centered while moving out of his line of fire

OK. Yeah, I've been taught to double-tap, then move, so my concern is standing there to get off the first two shots. I'm right quick on the draw and fire, but "right quick" doesn't always get the job done. "Right accurate" does. Different strokes, I guess...

 

[amrote]

Festus, with all do respect you have not lost until you are dead. One of the most important aspects in carrying a gun either for duty or to protect yourself is mindset. You must have the will to WIN not survive. This is taught by LE, Military, and Civilian Instructors across our nation. In numerous force-on-force scenarios I have participated and taught I have seen people freeze when they are shot. After some coaching they get mad and fight to win. Have a reason to live: revenge, going home to see your family, anger, not letting this POS take you from your family, ect and fight to win. I am glad you train and respect the fact you are comfortable with this method. I was not knocking the method, just trying to make you think for a moment. Take every technique you have been taught and find a way to make it better for YOU. We are all different and not everything is best for everyone. I admire the fact that you train, and want to encourage you to continue to do so.

 

[festus]

I appreciate your comments and banter

Festus, with all do respect you have not lost until you are dead. One of the most important aspects in carrying a gun either for duty or to protect yourself is mindset. You must have the will to WIN not survive. This is taught by LE, Military, and Civilian Instructors across our nation. In numerous force-on-force scenarios I have participated and taught I have seen people freeze when they are shot. After some coaching they get mad and fight to win. Have a reason to live: revenge, going home to see your family, anger, not letting this POS take you from your family, ect and fight to win. I am glad you train and respect the fact you are comfortable with this method. I was not knocking the method, just trying to make you think for a moment. Take every technique you have been taught and find a way to make it better for YOU. We are all different and not everything is best for everyone. I admire the fact that you train, and want to encourage you to continue to do so.

I do not expect to loose. I qualified expert while in the USAF and I have shot competitively in the past. I have confidence in my training and tactics. I have always maintained that if your gun clears the holster the time for talking is over. My point was exactly what you alluded to...gunshot victims tend to freeze up. Part of it is the disbelief that they now have a hole and are bleeding. Part of it is shock. Part of it is the bad day effect. I do have the will to win. I also have the ability to train monthly (keep in practice) and the love of freedom to carry.
When I leave the house...little buddy is right there every single time unless I am headed to the base or other restricted area (I work in the aerospace industry...different set of rules than the widely known FL parking lot law...damn liberal thinking on the part of the Federal Govt' forcing itself on the states rights).

I respect the guys that carry a round in the tube.There are only a handful of guns I would trust to carry on in the chamber set to fire. Glock is not one of them. I have owned striker fired pistols in the past and do not trust them. If I owned a 1911 I would most definitely carry one in the tube cocked and locked.

I trust my training because I have timed drawing and shooting from a loaded chamber perspective and I have timed Israeli draw. I was extremely close on time due to the presentation style and therefore am comfortable with it.

I am fully mentally prepared to defend myself and would hope that every other member of this forum is as well. I have seen the worst the world has to offer while on active duty. I am grateful to live where I do and am grateful to be free.

 

[Mobuck]

I've tried this technique and found you really need tough hands. Otherwise,at least in my case, you soon lose the skin from the racking hand. I don't have the time or free ammo to develop this application to 100% success. I'll stick to C&L and use a good holster.

 

[oldvet53]

israeli draw

i always carry with one in the pipe as the gun i have is double action on the first shot and single action after that. no disrespect to the israeli's but i feel my system gives me the advantage.

 

[Treo]

Israeli Carry
Has absolutely nothing to do W/ the Iraelis "knowing what they're doing". It actually is the specific result of most of them NOT knowing what they were doing when the IDF was formed. They had a lot of different semiautos W/ different manuals of arms, and mostly fire arms illiterate troops. It was decided for safety to standardize condition 3 carry.

When I first started to carry I always carried it in condition 3 for "safety". Long story short I got confronted in a dark parking lot in a very bad part of town early one morning and I drew. In the stress of the moment I completely forgot that the chamber was empty. luckily the defensive display was enough.

 

[Treo]

I do not expect to loose. I qualified expert while in the USAF and I have shot competitively in the past.

Tell me, while all this was going on , was any body shooting back?

 

[JJFlash]

Tell me, while all this was going on , was any body shooting back?

Kinda immaterial, isn't it? I train very regularly and hardly ever with anyone shooting back at me.

 

[Treo]

Kinda immaterial, isn't it? I train very regularly and hardly ever with anyone shooting back at me.

Yes and no, remember the scen in "the Shootist" where JB and Gillom are shooting and Gillom points out that he's firing just as accurately as Mr. Books?

Books replies "There's nobody up there shooting back"

I train assuming that I'm going to be starting waaay behind the power curve I do "expect to lose" If I don't hey it's a bonus if I do or I'm gravely injured in the fight my mind's (hopefully) prepared for that.

 

[festus]

Noope...

Tell me, while all this was going on , was any body shooting back?

Noope...but I have been deployed to the middle east 13 times since Desertshield/storm before retirement in 2006. I have seen both the best and worst that part of the world has to offer. Situational awareness is your best friend and risk management is right up there as well. I received Hostile fire/imminent danger pay and tax free status while deployed for a reason. What about you?
1. If you are being shot at MOVE...move to cover and do it before shooting back.
2. If you can access your weapon while moving and provide cover fire great do that...remember you are responsible for every round you cut loose with
3. Take the shot...STOP the threat. Do so by training consistently and training often.
4. Use what ever works for you. If you are comfortable with a striker fired gun with no external safety (glock) go for it. I do what is good for me.

 

[Treo]

Noope...but I have been deployed to the middle east 13 times since Desertshield/storm before retirement in 2006. I have seen both the best and worst that part of the world has to offer. Situational awareness is your best friend and risk management is right up there as well. I received Hostile fire/imminent danger pay and tax free status while deployed for a reason. What about you?

You want to just go ahead and lay them in the dirt and measure 'em?

Read my post above your's then get back to me

 

[festus]

Ok Your ball...

You want to just go ahead and lay them in the dirt and measure 'em?

Read my post above your's then get back to me

OK your ball...What exactly are you getting at? The average street thug is not a well trained individual...if they were you would see them portrayed on deadliest warrior or some other such nonsense. My point is React like you were trained to. A good plan now is better than a great plan dreamed up while in a drug induced coma in the Intensive Care Unit. I really don't want to fire my weapon if i don't have to. If I do it will be to stop the threat. Not to kill and not to wound but to stop. Make the BG stop and make the situation safe again. No one knows how they will react in combat until they are there. Trained individuals fall back on their training and usually live to see another day. Untrained individuals act in unpredictable manners and that scares the Hell out of me. It should scare you too.