Interview with Lt. Col. Dave Grossman on bulletproofing your mind

It seems like once a week or so someone shows up here proclaiming their sheep dog status and sometimes telling the rest of us what cowards we are for not buying into the “sheep dog” ethos. I’ve even read posts that proclaim that we (permit holders) have a duty “lay down our lives” in defense of “the sheep”. It was also stated that if your family is left behind in poverty because of your actions they should collect their welfare and feel honored that you died a “sheep dog”

To be perfectly honest “sheep dogs” scare me, they strike me as the type of person that is carrying a gun just waiting for a chance to be “a hero”. It’s been my experience that people that want to be heroes tend to blow a situation out of proportion in their quest to fulfill the “sheep dog” role.

Any time I carry a gun (which is all the time) I am incurring the risk of liability and I am accepting full responsibility for my actions. Why would I want to add to that risk by deliberately interjecting myself into a situation that has nothing to do with me? Also how am I fulfilling my responsibility to protect my family by adding to their risk (of losing their primary provider) by so doing?

IMO anyone who grabs onto that title is looking for something outside themselves to add meaning to their life and (also IMO) they are looking in a very dangerous place

Grossman’s “Sheep, Sheepdogs and Wolves” was mainly directed at professional soldiers and police officers it was never intended to be a Raison d'être for concealed carry permit holders. It’s an analogy and like all analogies its flawed and you don’t have to take it too far to find the flaws.

Sheep are herd animals that are kept not out of the benevolent goodness of their owner’s heart but because they produce goods that benefit the owner and only the owner. Where do you think the term getting “fleeced” came from? Unproductive sheep are killed.

Sheepdogs are not part of the flock they are employed to impose the owner’s will on the sheep, by force if necessary. They guard the flock because it is of benefit to the owner and they have no qualms about herding the flock to a slaughterhouse if that is what the owner commands. Sheep dog is not an appellation I would care to have applied to me.

It has been my experience that those, in the permit holder community, who seek the title of sheepdog, tend to be authoritarians who use it as a means of self aggrandizement. They tend to derive their feelings of self worth from the position of quasi authority they assume their permit gives them. This is, of course, my opinion but I have also seen posters on gun boards state that our status as permit holders makes us defacto auxiliary police officers. As such I believe the sheepdog mythology is very, very dangerous to the gun owning community and I speak against it at every opportunity.
 
I am not a sheep for I do not mill around with the flock with my attention on fitting in with the flock.

I am not a wolf for I do not prey on the sheep.

I am not a sheepdog for I do not have the responsibility to protect the sheep... nor do I have any desire to fight the wolf.

I am a stray dog... I am warily friendly to the sheep and I avoid the wolf as I fend for myself yet I will fiercely fight to protect those I love... from both wolf and sheep.
 
It seems like once a week or so someone shows up here proclaiming their sheep dog status and sometimes telling the rest of us what cowards we are for not buying into the “sheep dog” ethos. I’ve even read posts that proclaim that we (permit holders) have a duty “lay down our lives” in defense of “the sheep”. It was also stated that if your family is left behind in poverty because of your actions they should collect their welfare and feel honored that you died a “sheep dog”

To be perfectly honest “sheep dogs” scare me, they strike me as the type of person that is carrying a gun just waiting for a chance to be “a hero”. It’s been my experience that people that want to be heroes tend to blow a situation out of proportion in their quest to fulfill the “sheep dog” role.

Any time I carry a gun (which is all the time) I am incurring the risk of liability and I am accepting full responsibility for my actions. Why would I want to add to that risk by deliberately interjecting myself into a situation that has nothing to do with me? Also how am I fulfilling my responsibility to protect my family by adding to their risk (of losing their primary provider) by so doing?

IMO anyone who grabs onto that title is looking for something outside themselves to add meaning to their life and (also IMO) they are looking in a very dangerous place

Grossman’s “Sheep, Sheepdogs and Wolves” was mainly directed at professional soldiers and police officers it was never intended to be a Raison d'être for concealed carry permit holders. It’s an analogy and like all analogies its flawed and you don’t have to take it too far to find the flaws.

Sheep are herd animals that are kept not out of the benevolent goodness of their owner’s heart but because they produce goods that benefit the owner and only the owner. Where do you think the term getting “fleeced” came from? Unproductive sheep are killed.

Sheepdogs are not part of the flock they are employed to impose the owner’s will on the sheep, by force if necessary. They guard the flock because it is of benefit to the owner and they have no qualms about herding the flock to a slaughterhouse if that is what the owner commands. Sheep dog is not an appellation I would care to have applied to me.

It has been my experience that those, in the permit holder community, who seek the title of sheepdog, tend to be authoritarians who use it as a means of self aggrandizement. They tend to derive their feelings of self worth from the position of quasi authority they assume their permit gives them. This is, of course, my opinion but I have also seen posters on gun boards state that our status as permit holders makes us defacto auxiliary police officers. As such I believe the sheepdog mythology is very, very dangerous to the gun owning community and I speak against it at every opportunity.

Easy does it there Treo. I think the idea was to get a certain mindset established when the SHTF. I certainly don't agree with some of the things he said but this country is in trouble and we may be called to defend it against tyrannical and corrupt leaders if it comes down to it. Way too many people in this country have become passive and complacent and it is this current generation that is going to have to fix what is F'ed up. Voting no longer works.

I didn't put this up to proclaim anything or call anyone a coward. I posted it purely if anyone was interested in researching him more.

As licensed firearm carriers I believe we do have a duty to aid those whose life may be in danger but as far as laying down your life, well I don't know about that.

["Any time I carry a gun (which is all the time) I am incurring the risk of liability and I am accepting full responsibility for my actions. Why would I want to add to that risk by deliberately interjecting myself into a situation that has nothing to do with me?"]
Because that's what a good citizen, neighbor, friend does

["It’s been my experience that people that want to be heroes tend to blow a situation out of proportion in their quest to fulfill the “sheep dog” role."]
And they fulfill neither. I have yet to come across anyone in my area that carries and wants to be a hero or a sheep dog.

Basically I think you took it way out of context and I am sorry you feel the way you do, maybe you had a bad experience somewhere along the path of life.
 
<Snipped>

Grossman’s “Sheep, Sheepdogs and Wolves” was mainly directed at professional soldiers and police officers it was never intended to be a Raison d'être for concealed carry permit holders. It’s an analogy and like all analogies its flawed and you don’t have to take it too far to find the flaws.

<Snipped>

Treo, while I don't always agree with you, I'm behind you 100% on this one. (In the majority of your posts, I DO agree with you. The problem for me, with your posts, is that you leave little room for argument or comment. Take that as a compliment!)

Beyond that, I want to commend you on your writing skill, organization of thoughts, and style. There are too many folks here who write in a stream of consciousness, without capitalization, punctuation, or use of paragraphs to organize their argument. And it is those posts that I rarely understand. You have a gift. I always understand what you're saying and I thank you for it. (For some reason, on this forum, I overuse split infinitives. I don't know why I do it here, because I know better. I write professionally and when I finally read what I've written on this forum, I cringe every time I see one of my errors.)

With my thanks for your lucid presentation of arguments,
MilShooter
 
I am split on this subject, in one way i agree with what has been said so far. I am a fireman and put my life on the life for toal stranger by running into burning biulding however i dont think i would jion a gun fight for a total stranger if i didnt need too to save my life. On the other hand i do think that there is a responibility to protect those that can not protect themselves like my children. So i can see both sides of this, also sorry for spelly and grammer since it has been brought up but i composed this on my phone.
 
Treo, while I don't always agree with you, I'm behind you 100% on this one. (In the majority of your posts, I DO agree with you. The problem for me, with your posts, is that you leave little room for argument or comment. Take that as a compliment!)

MilShooter

Coming form a professional write I take that as high praise
 
There are a few of us out here who still appreciate good spelling and grammar, as well as composition.

I never did understand the appeal of Faulkner!
 

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