Intent to????

[drewoufan]

I'm once again fairly new to conceal carry so I have something that has been a large question for me that I need to ask. When faced with a situation where you have to take action with your side arm do you shoot with intentions to incapacitate or to inflict fatal injury? I've often thought it depended on the situation, but you may not know if they have a weapon. So does that take away the thought of incapacitating. Even when shot in a limb it is possible to still draw a weapon and do harm. What are your thoughts?

 

[dojoman]

That is a call that only you can make. My issue with just shooting to injure is you have no idea if they have a gun or what they might do. Having said that, my rule of thumb as most is....just use enough force to end the threat. Pulling ur pistol might be all you need. While another threat might require a shoot to kill, example someome high on pcp. One advice I will say is know your local and state law. If you don't have a "stand your ground" law then you better make sure that you proved that you did everything you could to run/drive away. Also wouldn't hurt to check into other statuteds like if your outnumbered, gang attack, or out sized in a sence of weight/height(i forget the name for it but someone will post it). See what they have on the books. Also, get a lawyer asap and meet with them...let the lawyer get to know your personality and history(this will help should you need to defend yourself in court...this.is so key to either a cleared record or prison time)and he/she can inform you on the laws, answer questions, ect. I hope this helps you out.

 

[agrippakc]

This MAY result in some heated posts. Here is the deal, in a stressful situation your groupings can increase by as much as 9". Shooting for a small target like a leg or an arm means a higher chance of missing. Shoot for center mass until the attacker stops attacking. The attacker chooses when I begin to shoot AND when I stop shooting, but I could be wrong.

 

[Cotillion]

I don't think there is any right answer. Obviously as responsible gun owners nobody wants to take a life, but by using your gun it means your life should be in danger. It's hard to tell what your reaction will be since that's the one thing you can't practice.

 

[SGB]

You shoot to incapacitate, the fastest way to achieve this is to inflict mortal injury.

 

[The_Outlaw]

Only shoot "to stop" an attacker and that's only if you have no other choice right?
Never shoot to 'kill' anyone. That won't fly in court will it?
Are you a 'killer'? Is that what you want them to label you as in court?
NO WAY!
You are not ever trying to kill anyone!
NEVER!
If you must utilize your sidearm as a last resort, then you will always aim at 'center mass'.
Why must you aim at center mass?
Because that is the largest target area of the assailant!
You don't want to miss the assailant and then possibly have your round hit an unintended target do you?
Always shoot to 'stop the threat', never to kill.
~Stay Safe~

 

[NCIC105]

Outlaw is dead on with his comments.

We were taught you shoot to eliminate the threat. (back in the 70's while in the Academy)

If the suspect is down and cannot shoot back at you, then you
eliminated the threat...

Let's say the suspect is down and the gun is 20 feet away, and you can safely take custody of the gun, so he or she cannot use it against you, then the threat has been eliminated...

Never say I intended to kill.

We were taught to say in court; I took these actions to eliminate the threat...No more, no less, just repeat this sentence every time you are asked if your needed to shoot the perp that many times or "is it true that the suspect hit you, and you wanted revenge; You wanted to kill him didn't you?"

"I took these actions to eliminate the threat" Sir!

You could also use I took these actions to stop the attack...

As others have said, "Center mass only"
Never try to be John Wayne and shoot the gun or knife out of there hand...Or knee cap them...


e·lim·i·nate   [ih-lim-uh-neyt] Show IPA
verb (used with object), -nat·ed, -nat·ing.

1. to remove or get rid of, especially as being in some way undesirable: to eliminate risks; to eliminate hunger.

 

[kelcarry]

This is real life and not a western movie. You are in imminent danger--there is no other reason to be drawing your weapon--you shoot to kill--want to play Marshall Dillon?--you die.

 

[gspgundog]

I also am of the center mass, and fire until the threat has stopped school. There is no way to know what effect a hit to an arm or Leg will have and getting multiple hits on small targets under stress may be impossible. The idea of deploying a firearm is to save YOUR life. In that case I will go for the high percentage target.

 

[papasan]

I am new to CC and hope I never have to draw my weapon.BUT, if I draw, it will be to aim at center mass and stop the threat

 

[fuhr52]

Shoot to stop the threat, center mass largest target. One other thing to keep in mind, as if you will have time to think of this without a lot of training, Rule #4. Know your target and what is beyond your target. You are responsible for the bullet and where it ends up. The bad guy, he has no responsibility, he's already broke the law.

 

[Providence Ranch]

The object must always be to stop the threat. Never specifically to kill. We are talking about deadly force, though, so we must be aware that certain legal requirements must be present for us to lawfully use such force, and we must know that it carries a real potential of causing serious injury or death.

 

[olsparky]

Outlaw nailed it.

For Utah law (find out for your state):

The use of deadly force (any time you use your gun) is justified when the actions or intent of the other individual are likely to cause death or serious bodily injury. If this is the justification of force then the motivation should be to stop the threat. If found in a situation that requires the use of a gun it is most likely that the other individual has some type of weapon that you are aware of. If you feel your life is in danger it means that their attack has already begun, or is imminent. In that case it should be assumed that you have one shot before that attack continues, or initiates. With that one shot you need to have to best chance to hit your target with a stopping impact. That needs to be center mass for all intents and purposes.

It is not about killing your attacker, it is about stopping the threat and saving your life, or the lives of those around you.

If you only have one shot, make it count, but shoot until the threat is neutralized.

(Note: the other justification for deadly force in Utah is to stop or prevent a forcible felony in your residence. If someone is breaking into your home you don't have to wait to find out if they want your TV or your daughter, or if they are armed. If they are in your home, or trying to break in, they can be considered a threat to your life and you are justified in stopping the threat.)

 

[r1dge69]

I was told by one of my store customer, just before Wi's conceal carry went into effect...I you have to use your gun to defend yourself, the first thing out of your mouth to a police officer is: "I feared for my life". I would add, keep your mouth shut after that sentence until you get a lawyer so that you don't inadvertently get yourself into trouble by mis-speaking. Which is easy to do under stress. Just my 0.02 cents.

 

[B2Tall]

You shoot to stop the threat. Whether the BG lives or dies is not my concern, nor is either one a goal of mine.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I shoot to stop the threat. I am also responsible for every bullet that leaves my gun. In order to fulfill that responsibility and to effectively stop a threat, I will begin shooting center mass into the chest area. Most likely ability to stop the threat and least likely for a complete miss and the bullet endangering anyone else. If the threat doesn't stop with two confirmed hits to the chest, I will, after evaluation of the environment around me, attempt for the head if conditions allow. If not, I will continue with center mass shots.

Military are trainined to never attempt to shoot at an appendage in an attempt to merely temporarily incapicate a person....there are several reasons behind that.

 

[Skiluvr03]

I was taught to only pull your weapon to kill the other person before they kill you. You shoot them in the leg and they will just sue you for everything you have, if they don't kill you first while injured

 

[NavyLCDR]

I was taught to only pull your weapon to kill the other person before they kill you.

Respectfully, you were taught wrong, IMHO.

 

[WB9IIE]

All of these posts are good, with the best coming from Outlaw and olsparky. When I went through the acadamy, the instructor always said "Shoot for center mass. If the SOB dies, he has a problem." Great advice about not talking to leo other that "I was in fear of my life. You are required to give the leo name, rank and serial number (positive identification), but no more. Just let the leo know that you fear for your life, prove who you are, and ask for an attorney... then CLAM UP.

 

[weekendskp]

my rule of thumb as most is....just use enough force to end the threat.

I agree.

in a stressful situation your groupings can increase by as much as 9"

I agree.

Only shoot "to stop" an attacker

I agree.

There are many thoughtful and intelligent responses on this forum.