BluesStringer
Les Brers
One of the better first posts I've ever seen here, Royal Coachman. Welcome, and don't be a stranger.
Indiana Expungement email to ATF
- Thread starter hallcs
- Start date
Royal Coachmen
New member
Thanks BluesStringer! My practice keeps me extraordinarily busy so sometimes stopping back by slips my mind. I practice in firearms law because I enjoy it. I will do my best to keep up on here. If you or anyone else has questions you're welcome to email me [email protected]. I will get that quicker.
gamecrimez
New member
Update: I just received my carry permit yesterday, I filled out in feb 3 & was approved june 13. I gave up on checking everyday & thought I would get a denial letter but I was so excited when I felt a piece of plastic in the envelope. So there is hope. It took 4 months for me with 4 expunged felonies (non violent class D felonies) & 1 misdemeanor.
Royal Coachmen
New member
Expungement
That's great to hear. Even with the delay that still seems as if it is taking a little long. Very glad you received your permit. I would strongly recommend that you undergo a NICS appeal through the FBI's appeal process to ensure their records are updated in accordance with what Indiana's records show. State and Federal systems do not "talk" to each other as well as they should. The last thing you want now is to try to purchase a firearm, get delayed, and have the ATF show up on your doorstep. Keep COPIES of your expungement orders in a safe place if this situation should occur. I also recommend that you appeal your background check through the FBI's appeal procedure.
Cheers.
That's great to hear. Even with the delay that still seems as if it is taking a little long. Very glad you received your permit. I would strongly recommend that you undergo a NICS appeal through the FBI's appeal process to ensure their records are updated in accordance with what Indiana's records show. State and Federal systems do not "talk" to each other as well as they should. The last thing you want now is to try to purchase a firearm, get delayed, and have the ATF show up on your doorstep. Keep COPIES of your expungement orders in a safe place if this situation should occur. I also recommend that you appeal your background check through the FBI's appeal procedure.
Cheers.
juicemain27
New member
Hi gamecrimez..what lawyer did you use to get you expungement?
juicemain27
New member
Im from south bend indiana
Howdy all;
I have an expunged felony in Indiana. My paperwork says that all my civil rights have been restored, and im to be treated as if i never had a felony conviction. I've applied for a carry permit and its pending ISP approval. I tried to buy a gun yesterday, 10-23-2016, and im on a delay with the NICS thing. I'll repost with the results once i have some. Wish me luck.
I have an expunged felony in Indiana. My paperwork says that all my civil rights have been restored, and im to be treated as if i never had a felony conviction. I've applied for a carry permit and its pending ISP approval. I tried to buy a gun yesterday, 10-23-2016, and im on a delay with the NICS thing. I'll repost with the results once i have some. Wish me luck.
gamecrimez
New member
I did not use an attorney, I downloaded & printed sample forms from Indiana's website. I edited to fit my situation. I have a BMV acct & downloaded & printed my driving record, I got on public access & got criminal record & printed. For some reason your license has to be valid & also you have to proof no pending cases. I took they driving record, background check & the expungement form to the clerks office at the courthouse in my county where the crimes where committed. The lady stamped made copy for prosecutors office & had me take there. I had messed up on filing out the expungement form as it said to list felonies & I did but didn't put misdemeanor on there (thought I had to do separate form, im not a lawyer). Well the prosecutors office has 30 days to review & approve or deny. I was denied & set up court date because of the misdemeanor. Went to court & judge asked & I told him what had happened & thought needed a separate form as it was kinda confusing & he could easily tell I was dumb when it came to court documents & had me verbally add it to the current case (expungement case) & set up new date with another judge since it had felonies & misdemeanor & he is the felony only judge. So went to court again & they reviewed it asked me all my charges that where getting expunged & some other misc questions & approved it. Now the 1st prosecutor was confused how to do the amend as I was under the new law & they changed it 1 thing was adding a fee to file but the judge said I was on old clause so I didn't have to pay anything. Altogether I was close to 3 months because I didn't really know what I was doing if I would of but that dam misdemeanor on the 1st time I filed I would of known in 30 days & if approved & guessing I would of since I did wouldn't even of had to go to court as I would just get the letter saying approved & everything else would of been automatic.
I have to warn you however that they had changed a few things since I filled mine out, the changes took effect July 1st 2015 & I filed mine at court house in June (which 1yr later had gun permit) & by the end of Oct. went to court & was approved. Also after that my record started disappearing off the background checks not all at once 1 felony took about 3 months as I paid the state police online for a limited criminal record search. I wanted to wait a little longer so hoping nothing would show up when I filled out for my gun permit. I did it all online that I could did finger printing a couple days after that took fee to local police station with paper from finger print place, they took a week to send to ISP & ISP took the longest about 3 1/2 months, I emailed them 2 months after I filled out inquiring & made sure I did everything correct & was told that its being looked at thru the back ground check people that something showed up but when you ghet it expunged the law enforcement still has access & they basically had to verify each case was expunged then in June I had my gun permit & I filled in Feb.
I hope this info will be of some use & also get on Indiana's site & read the expungement statue again to make sure of any new changes & what all you need to do & get everything ready then either higher a good attorney or chance doing it yourself but don't **** up like I did & delay it. If you need any help let me know & ill do my best to help you.
Firearm application denied even with expungement and CCW
I received an expungement a couple years ago and it took at least a year to receive my CCW. My felony was 30 years ago though. I am pretty sure that made the difference. This is for the State only.
Even though the U.S. Code Title 18 (921) states:
"What constitutes a conviction of such a crime shall be determined in accordance with the law of the jurisdiction in which the proceedings were held. Any conviction which has been expunged, or set aside or for which a person has been pardoned or has had civil rights restored shall not be considered a conviction for purposes of this chapter, unless such pardon, expungement, or restoration of civil rights expressly provides that the person may not ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms."
I was still denied when trying to purchase a firearm. I am trying to appeal this. I sent my expungement paperwork to them along with a cop of my CCW. Hope I do not lose it now... This is so confusing. They say one thing on the application and give you another answer in their letter. The state was the same way with the CCW questions. I also noticed that within your expungement, you should verify that gun rights should be restored as well. This may help.
I honestly wish there was a law that allowed you felony to wiped out after so many years of good standing... It would be nice..
I received an expungement a couple years ago and it took at least a year to receive my CCW. My felony was 30 years ago though. I am pretty sure that made the difference. This is for the State only.
Even though the U.S. Code Title 18 (921) states:
"What constitutes a conviction of such a crime shall be determined in accordance with the law of the jurisdiction in which the proceedings were held. Any conviction which has been expunged, or set aside or for which a person has been pardoned or has had civil rights restored shall not be considered a conviction for purposes of this chapter, unless such pardon, expungement, or restoration of civil rights expressly provides that the person may not ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms."
I was still denied when trying to purchase a firearm. I am trying to appeal this. I sent my expungement paperwork to them along with a cop of my CCW. Hope I do not lose it now... This is so confusing. They say one thing on the application and give you another answer in their letter. The state was the same way with the CCW questions. I also noticed that within your expungement, you should verify that gun rights should be restored as well. This may help.
I honestly wish there was a law that allowed you felony to wiped out after so many years of good standing... It would be nice..
Blueshell
Banned
You, sir, are a shining example of why fellons SHOULD be permitted to have firearms
BluesStringer
Les Brers
Since you are legal to purchase a weapon in your state (according to the citation you posted), if I were you I would never even attempt to buy through an FFL. I don't know the laws of IN, but in most states buying through a private party requires only that both parties are state residents and that the transfer is made within that state. The federal law says that the seller can't sell to someone they know, should know, or have reason to believe is a prohibited person. Some state laws go beyond that, but if IN doesn't, then just don't say a word to your seller about your past, even though you are expunged, and they will have no reason to believe that you might be a prohibited person. Make the transaction, wish each other a happy life, and go on about living yours. Screw the contradicting governments. If they can't figure out that someone who's too dangerous to own/carry a gun should not be released from prison, and further figure out that someone who has paid their debt to society should enjoy all the same rights as those who have never incurred that kind of debt, then cut them out of the loop. Private party all the way. And if IN does go farther than federal law for ex-cons, then move to a freer state that doesn't. People need to start taking control of what they can of their lives. The government will always put up road blocks. It's up to you to figure out how to go around them.
Blues
Many of the gun shows now are mostly dealers. There are few individual people selling and they usually do not have what I like. The only real way to fix the issue is to clear the records after so many years of good standing, make an expungement a real expungement. Federal definition of an expungement is different from Indianas. This is the reason they do not recognize Indiana's law.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
You're making it more complicated than it needs to be. Finding a private party who is selling something you need/want may take a little longer than just walking into your LGS, but it's not difficult or complicated to initiate a search. You also may have to drive from one end of the state to the other, but what's more important to you, legally procuring a weapon to carry, or proving a point about the screwed up NICS processes? How about you legally buy a gun to carry from a private party first, and then do whatever lobbying for changes to NICS you'd like to see later when you're not desperate because you already have a weapon for self defense? First things first, as it were.
You can place a "Wanted To Buy" (WTB) free ad in your local Penny Saver, or maybe there's a statewide similar type of publication. Potential sellers come to you in that case. You can also place a WTB free ad on Armslist.com, as well as scour your state's private party listings. Check the new ads every day and it won't take long to find what you want for the price you want to pay, if a seller doesn't call you first off of the WTB that you placed, that is.
Or you can put your thinking cap on and come up with your own ideas about how to find private party sellers.
Or you can sit there unarmed because Daddy Fed won't accede to your demands that they change the law right now, and then ask strangers on the internet how to convert the tyrannical, controlling nature of government into an accommodating, rights-protecting, altruistic Utopian government that has never existed on this planet in the history of history. If I were sitting where you're sitting and I asked the question that you asked and got the advice on how to legally get a weapon to carry that I've given you, I'd be busy finding a private party seller instead of being busy bellyachin' about gun shows not being the right option for whatever reason, especially when I never said a word about gun shows to begin with.
It's all up to you. Daddy Fed ain't never gonna become something it's never been, especially when that something is completely counter to its very nature. You're legal to buy from a private party. Go find one.
Blues
Royal Coachmen
New member
Feds DO Recognize Indiana's expungements
To clarify, the Federal Government now recognizes Indiana's expungement statute so long as the order of expungement states that you are now a "proper person" who is permitted to possess under Indiana's law. The explanation is somewhat complex and mostly involved semantics.
All of this is not to say that from a practical standpoint, folks who get their records expunged still get denied. The timing of when a purchase is attempted after an expungement is important. Try too soon and the ISP will not have their records updated. Additionally, the Feds undoubtedly will not have their records updated. Consequently, depending upon how old the prior conviction is the NICS may come back as a denial. If this occurs, you can file a VAF appeal (you'll need the number from the denial). Unfortunately, this can take upwards of a year.
I also saw a post about filing an expungement pro se (or on your own) which certainly can be done, but I would caution against it. There are pitfalls that can cause hold ups in processing, denials, prevention of future expungement filings, and if you have a conviction for a crime of domestic violence...and expungement will NOT serve to restore your right to possess. You must file a separate petition under a separate statute to get your right to possess restored for a conviction of a crime of domestic violence. After you are successful in this regard, you may file a petition to expunge. Some of this may all be accomplished without the necessity of a hearing.
I have had a number of folks contact me through this site with questions about their specific situations. I am happy to answer questions that I can. You can reach me directly at [email protected] with questions. I only periodically check this board because of my schedule. Cheers.
To clarify, the Federal Government now recognizes Indiana's expungement statute so long as the order of expungement states that you are now a "proper person" who is permitted to possess under Indiana's law. The explanation is somewhat complex and mostly involved semantics.
All of this is not to say that from a practical standpoint, folks who get their records expunged still get denied. The timing of when a purchase is attempted after an expungement is important. Try too soon and the ISP will not have their records updated. Additionally, the Feds undoubtedly will not have their records updated. Consequently, depending upon how old the prior conviction is the NICS may come back as a denial. If this occurs, you can file a VAF appeal (you'll need the number from the denial). Unfortunately, this can take upwards of a year.
I also saw a post about filing an expungement pro se (or on your own) which certainly can be done, but I would caution against it. There are pitfalls that can cause hold ups in processing, denials, prevention of future expungement filings, and if you have a conviction for a crime of domestic violence...and expungement will NOT serve to restore your right to possess. You must file a separate petition under a separate statute to get your right to possess restored for a conviction of a crime of domestic violence. After you are successful in this regard, you may file a petition to expunge. Some of this may all be accomplished without the necessity of a hearing.
I have had a number of folks contact me through this site with questions about their specific situations. I am happy to answer questions that I can. You can reach me directly at [email protected] with questions. I only periodically check this board because of my schedule. Cheers.
gamecrimez
New member
That's what I did while I wait for the NCIS to be updated, I would rather be armed & able to protect my self than be unarmed waiting on the government.
I did my expungement myself & messed up & ended up taking 2-3months longer than needed than if I would of gotting an attorney I would advise to hire one so you don't make a mistake like me.
Exconhammond
New member
expungement
how long did you wait after your expungement was granted before you tried to buy a gun? how long was your delay? Did you ever get your indiana license to carry?
how long did you wait after your expungement was granted before you tried to buy a gun? how long was your delay? Did you ever get your indiana license to carry?
I recently had two 30 year old theft type felonies expunged in Indiana, the first one in November of 2021 and the second in February of 2022. I decided to seek a lifetime CCW on March 12th of this year. I did the fingerprints that same day and I visited my local Police on March 14th with my fingerprint receipt. My local police passed it on to ISP on March 18th.
Based on research I was prepared for a long wait as the ISP website states it takes up to 60 days if you have no background history and I have read up to 6 months if you do. Expunged convictions are still "background history".
To aid my application I uploaded PDFs of the two expungements when I did the initial application on March 12th. I also called ISP CCW office to confirm that saying "No I have not been convicted of a felony" was correct on the form. That was confirmed. I also asked if proactively uploading my expungement documents was helpful and was told they would find it anyway but yes that is a good idea. I used this page to find the phone number:
https://www.in.gov/isp/contact-isp/
You may also contact the Firearms Licensing Unit by phone at 317-232-8264 (from the page above)
Simultaneously I contacted [email protected] which is the department that processes the expungement to ensure all agencies, including the FBI remove the convictions. The person who responded to me at that address was VERY helpful, respectful and never made me feel like less than a "proper person". This person told me exactly what dates ISP processed the expungements and what dates the FBI did as well. At the time of my initial contact the FBI had not processed my second expungement from February 2022 and this person invited me to email again in 2 weeks and they would gladly check on the status.
I had already called IDOC previously and they found the expungements and removed my name from their online offender database therefore I never asked the person above about IDOC.
I am happy to report that on April 28th my application was approved. I NEVER got an email saying it was approved. I would simply reload the page periodically, which requires you to login again, to check the status. That means mine was approved in 5 weeks from the date my local police submitted it to ISP. I intentionally have not attempted to purchase a gun via a FFL while the ISP CCW application was pending. Once ISP confirms the FBI has updated the second expungement then I plan to move forward with a purchase. I may just do a private purchase because I do not like being in a database but that is an entirely separate discussion. However my local gun store has the exact weapon I want so I will probably purchase it through them and accept being in a database.
Once you have a CCW I recommend taking a gun safety course even though it is not required. I also recommend staying current on gun laws in Indiana and other states if you travel. usaconcealcarry.com has been a great resource.
Based on research I was prepared for a long wait as the ISP website states it takes up to 60 days if you have no background history and I have read up to 6 months if you do. Expunged convictions are still "background history".
To aid my application I uploaded PDFs of the two expungements when I did the initial application on March 12th. I also called ISP CCW office to confirm that saying "No I have not been convicted of a felony" was correct on the form. That was confirmed. I also asked if proactively uploading my expungement documents was helpful and was told they would find it anyway but yes that is a good idea. I used this page to find the phone number:
https://www.in.gov/isp/contact-isp/
You may also contact the Firearms Licensing Unit by phone at 317-232-8264 (from the page above)
Simultaneously I contacted [email protected] which is the department that processes the expungement to ensure all agencies, including the FBI remove the convictions. The person who responded to me at that address was VERY helpful, respectful and never made me feel like less than a "proper person". This person told me exactly what dates ISP processed the expungements and what dates the FBI did as well. At the time of my initial contact the FBI had not processed my second expungement from February 2022 and this person invited me to email again in 2 weeks and they would gladly check on the status.
I had already called IDOC previously and they found the expungements and removed my name from their online offender database therefore I never asked the person above about IDOC.
I am happy to report that on April 28th my application was approved. I NEVER got an email saying it was approved. I would simply reload the page periodically, which requires you to login again, to check the status. That means mine was approved in 5 weeks from the date my local police submitted it to ISP. I intentionally have not attempted to purchase a gun via a FFL while the ISP CCW application was pending. Once ISP confirms the FBI has updated the second expungement then I plan to move forward with a purchase. I may just do a private purchase because I do not like being in a database but that is an entirely separate discussion. However my local gun store has the exact weapon I want so I will probably purchase it through them and accept being in a database.
Once you have a CCW I recommend taking a gun safety course even though it is not required. I also recommend staying current on gun laws in Indiana and other states if you travel. usaconcealcarry.com has been a great resource.
