Im an Unarmed Secuity Guard....My Problem is...Well Read

Itstjs

Itstjs

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I am an unarmed security guard, problem with that is, Im a security guard at a bank. The branch Im currently hasnt been robbed, well, yet. The other branches however have been robbed repeatedly. I do have a CPL, I wear a longer windbreaker jacket, and the tellers would never know Im carrying. Problem is, if I do have to detain someone [who isnt a threat with a gun or w/e] my pistol could fall out of my holster, hence getting me fired. Ive heard the saying many times "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" and I have considered carrying my weapon into the bank with me. My question is, would you? I was told earlier today by a manager of my company that if a crime happens i.e robbery, Im not to stop the crime, but I am to just take notes [if Im outside in my car] and provide the details to the police. I asked myself after I was dumbfounded, "what the hell am I here for then?"
I routinely open doors for members of the bank, refill the deposit slips, walk around the bank and look for things suspicious, and have even been told by the tellers that if someone is to rob the bank and we see them in time, Im to go behind the glass with the other employees....So, what the hell am I there for? Robbers tend to shoot the guy who they BELIEVE have a gun, and well, Im standing at the door with a smile on my face, greeting him...Am I supposed to just tuck tail and run? It goes against what I was trained in the Army, Im to always engage the suspect if I have a weapon pointed at me, or other innocent people around me....Give or take a few words...
Back to my point and question, would YOU carry in the bank? Theres no posted signs on the building and it is not a federal institution. I could be fired if Im found to have a pistol on me, but then again, my managers carry everywhere they go, I DO have my CPL, and it is my right to defend myself. Im currently looking into getting with another security company, so that I can carry without hastle.

Im conflicted on this issue. I have NO bulletproof vest, and theyre too expensive for me to buy outright at the moment. I just believe it is ignorant to have unarmed security [and Im nothing more than a glorified door greeter anyways] I make 8.20 an hour, the marked company vehicle has been removed from my location, and all Im left with is my Red Grand Am with 2 magnets on the sides....What a deterrent right? Im basically invisible until you get to the door.....
Should I carry concealed in the bank, or not?
 
That is something only you can decide for yourself. You could lose your job. You also could lose your life. I at one time worked a coupe of different unarmed security jobs that I carried concealed. One was at a country club on the midnight shift. There were two of us and we took turns patrolling the course on a golf cart. That country club was a very lonely place at 3:00 in the morning. My philosophy for life is , "It is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6".
 
f. Im currently looking into getting with another security company, so that I can carry without hastle.



Looks to me like you answered your own question, I know that pisses some people off (answering ones own question) but the truth is that finding answers is a process and not a question of right or wrong. I applaud your honesty in your question, your caught in a situation where you feel you have to chose between your moral belief and honoring the law / your companies policies. And I respect that. The best suggestion I have is that you have everyone you know tell the bank manager that they would feel more comfortable knowing that its security guards were armed.

although I have no real advise I have faith that you will find the appropriate outcome simply based on your concern to the issue.
 
1ofmany30 youre right, I did kind of answer my own question. I just feel like a sitting duck until the next interview comes along. But then again, someone could possibly rob the bank any day, and low and behold, I could possibly end up shot, or dead. Id have no problem running out to my vehicle and retrieving my gun, only problem is, would I make it that far? Stupid policies get people killed, Id much rather lose a job protecting myself, or others than let someone get hurt or killed.
 
As a retired Armed CPO with a major International Security Company, I can tell you from experience that if you were to carry on an Unarmed Contract at all, and use your weapon, you will be fired, possibly pull some serious jail time , plus get yourself blacklisted form the private contract security industry, and lose your CCW permit. Whatever civil action is brought against you by the individuals concerned, your on your own. ALso, your "former' Company will lose that contract and pay a heavy fine to the State Licensing Board. I've been there, take my word, do like your Supervisor tells you while you look for another site to work, or change Companies... :yu:
It is obvious from the advise of the other two replies that these two gentlemen have never worked contract security!
 
"and that my friend is a choice that is entirely up to you."

Most States regulate the Security Industry, not sure about MI. BUT not only the Life/Death issue raises great concern but the Legal ramifications of you discharging you fire arm in your defense while on a job that you are suppose to protect "UNARMED". Not a good position to be in. I would ask for a separate assignment while your prospects of a new job pan out. Try Armored Courier if your Ex-Mil with a decent credit background. Good Luck!

"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)
 
You may want to seriously consider finding another job ASAP. As far as carrying on the job, laws vary from state to state. At minimum, you could lose your job. Worse case scenario, you'll be going to court and may face jail time.

Keep your eyes open for other employment opportunities. The current situation you're in doesn't sound like something you feel like doing long term.

BTW, there are "bullet resistant" vests. Don't know of anyone who makes a "bullet proof" vest. :wink:




gf
 
I didnt think that carrying a firearm would be such a problem, especially with the law. I think for now Ill just leave my firearm in my car, being I use it at work, they cant tell me that I was wrong for going to my vehicle for protection. If they approach my car with me in it, I believe Id be well within my rights to open fire if needed.
Im hoping that Ill be able to start with this new company. The company Im with I will differently not stay with. I mean, what am I supposed to do if someone comes in with a gun? Show them my belt and HOPE they dont kill me? Well, either way, my company wont look much better now than they did when our client got robbed last time with one of our guards there. Luckily they just put the gun in his face and told him not to follow... Unarmed guards at banks is NOT the smartest idea....Oh well....
 
I would carry. In the same instance... I would not try to stop any crimes. I would hide. The only time I would use my firearm is if I was threatened.

This is only what I would do.
 
Ed Hamberger said:
As a retired Armed CPO with a major International Security Company, I can tell you from experience that if you were to carry on an Unarmed Contract at all, and use your weapon, you will be fired, possibly pull some serious jail time , plus get yourself blacklisted form the private contract security industry, and lose your CCW permit. Whatever civil action is brought against you by the individuals concerned, your on your own. ALso, your "former' Company will lose that contract and pay a heavy fine to the State Licensing Board. I've been there, take my word, do like your Supervisor tells you while you look for another site to work, or change Companies... :yu:
It is obvious from the advise of the other two replies that these two gentlemen have never worked contract security!
Click to expand...

I beg to differ I have worked contract security and also several years in law enforcement however as I said before one has to decide what he is most afraid of/concerned for. No one can answer that for another. If you feel comfortable not being armed then that is the way to go. If you fear for your life then do what you think you need to do. Your employer will not raise your kids if you are killed. As I said before "Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6". That is my motto. Everyone else will have to chose for themselves.
 
I was told earlier today by a manager of my company that if a crime happens i.e robbery, Im not to stop the crime, but I am to just take notes [if Im outside in my car] and provide the details to the police. I asked myself after I was dumbfounded, "what the hell am I here for then?"
I routinely open doors for members of the bank, refill the deposit slips, walk around the bank and look for things suspicious, and have even been told by the tellers that if someone is to rob the bank and we see them in time, Im to go behind the glass with the other employees....So, what the hell am I there for? Robbers tend to shoot the guy who they BELIEVE have a gun, and well, Im standing at the door with a smile on my face, greeting him...Am I supposed to just tuck tail and run? It goes against what I was trained in the Army, Im to always engage the suspect if I have a weapon pointed at me, or other innocent people around me....Give or take a few words...
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If the bank wanted you to "guard" the bank they would installed a glass bullet proof booth with gun ports. i.e. federal reserve bank, armored car. You would be heavly armed.
You are there for show. To open doors, and to keep the lobby area going.
You make the customers feel safe. They think you are protecting their money. The customers have more to fear from the bankers, then they do the robbers.
If you are afraid you will be gunned down, make your appearce such that any bad guys will see right away you are unarmed. How much you make an hour? Not enought to be shot. Practice putting your hands in the air, or going prone. Remember to smile often, and say to yourself, "i like my job" several times.
You are not in the army. This job does not want you to engage any threat.

Any carry weapon would have to be deeply consealed to hide it from your employer. What good is that going to do you when you need it? More harm then good IMO.

If you don't like your present situation , perhaps a chance of jobs is in order.

I feel for you, this is a no reward job, and makes you feel bad. However it is better then being unemployed.

YouTube - WC Fields: "The Bank Dick" Car Chase Scene
 
I posted this before to another person here who had the same question:

As someone who once worked as a Manager in the Private Security business, let me say this. They do not care about you. You can't be trusted with a gun. You are a liablity to them when you have a gun. They would rather you die, than be sued by someone you shot. They have yuppie lawyers in this industry that are not only anti-gun, but don't have a clue about shootings in self defense. Further, they don't want to waste the money on you for training you with a firearm. Even if it cost only $100, as was the case in the company I worked for, it's still a waste to the bottom line. To the average Security Company, training involves alot of attention to detail for an armed guard. You can't teach someone to shoot or not shoot, or be proficient in a 2 day class, which is about the average across the country. Therefore, they try to avoid you being armed.

If your widow sues because you were not allowed to be armed, they will say the customer didn't want armed people, or that you knew that you were going to be unarmed anyway. They would rather fight a lawsuit by you or your family, than a lawsuit brought on by a perpetrator or his family. I'm telling you the absolute truth here. In a national company, the people who generally make decisions about you being armed are are sitting behind a big desk in New York, looking at the bottom line and figuring the liability risk. That's it. We used to get memos telling us to discourage customers from requesting an Armed Guard. If they demand it, we should charge them heavily for the service of being armed, to counter the cost of liability and continue to discourage the customer about guns. Any weapon to them is a liability and a threat to their profits. Even Pepper Spray and batons. Nothing more. One Manager I knew was so concerned about the liability to his bottom line interfering with his quarterly bonuses, he made his armed guards keep the gun unloaded and ammo in their pocket like Barney Fife. He said, if trouble started, they could load their revolver, but only with 5 rounds, not 6. They charge the customer $16 and hour, pay you $8 an hour, and use the rest to pay for your "used" uniforms, their own liability insurance coverage, Supervisors having to drive by and check on you, etc.

I got out of this business because it is such a cut-throat industry. If your company gets a contract, someone from another company is already approaching that customer for doing it for a nickel per hour less. That is why there are so many minimum wage, sloppy, or Goofy Security Guards out there. There are some highly paid profesionals in Security with Law Enforcement experience and college degrees, but the contract guard service is generally a joke.
So just to let you know, the risk is on you and you alone. My personal decision would be to have a concealed 38 Airweight or a good .380 in a pocket holster or something, that's just me. I would protect me with that firearm and try to do as you're told. But you will be fired and they will try to distance themselves from you legally if you have to shoot. Your call!!! My next bit od advice is find another job, or assignement, where you can be armed.
 
Itstjs,

I can honestly feel where you are coming from. Back in 1987 when I was fresh out of the military, I was hired by a local bank to be an armed officer in their main branch. Customer's and employees felt really safe. Then suddenly, the big wigs of the bank decided that it was too much of a liability to have an armed officer in the branch. I was suddenly unarmed. Since that time, I have spent many years in the Security field and have come across this all to often.

As a contract officer I was having to work in areas where I would have felt a lot better being armed than being unarmed. However, due to contracts with the client, if the officer was found to be armed, not only would the officer be removed from the site, he/she could also be fired from the company. Then there was also the loss of the contract to the company and the black mark against not only the company but also a black mark against you, the officer.

I am currently a supervisor with a security company and all I will offer is this. If you are indeed worried about a robber entering the branch and targeting you, I would immediately contact your supervisors and request reassignment to another location/contract where you would be less likely to have to confront someone. As an unarmed officer, at least here in Oregon, you have to be certified by the state to conduct security duties. If an unarmed officer is found to be armed, even if only for 2A rights, the officer will have his certification revoked and they would be restricted from working security in the state ever again. I currently am working for a company who does not want armed officers, but that doesn't keep me from having my armed certification from the state. I don't know how certification works in you state, but if it was me, I would look for another assignment or would be looking for another employer. Don't arm yourself at the bank because if you have to use the weapon, you will not only be hurting yourself, but the company you work for as well.

That is my 2 cents on the subjent. Take it for what it is worth to you.

Good luck and be safe.
 
I think Ill just stay unarmed for now. I use to carry the pepper spray made by FOX, and a set of handcuffs, but eventually just removed those from my duty belt, and now just carry the rubber gloves in case I have to use CPR. Youre right, the members of the bank, when they see me, many of them feel safe. I on the other hand, dont feel safe at all. I just find it ridicules that if a bank wants to hire guards, theyd have armed ones.
Either way, if anyone tries to rob the place, Ill more than likely see them coming, lock the doors open up my windbreaker jacket, and let them see I am unarmed. Either that, or slip out the back door, make it to my car, and observe what I can. But I know Id be much more well protected if they approached me at my vehicle and I had no other choice but to protect myself with my firearm.
Ive made a few comments to the client as I have to my employer that I wasnt exactly safe. Neither of them seem to care too much. I do know of a few people within my company that despite what theyre told, they carry anyways. One of which I sent to basic training, he apparently was caught with his compact, the boss told him not to carry it, he allegedly told the boss to remove his, the boss laughed, and told him to just keep it hidden. Whether it went down like that or even went down at all, I have no idea. I dont think Im going to risk it, just going to pray this new company will set me up with an interview quickly.
Thank you all for the advice. :cray:
 
Itstjs said:
I am an unarmed security guard, problem with that is, Im a security guard at a bank. The branch Im currently hasnt been robbed, well, yet. The other branches however have been robbed repeatedly. I do have a CPL, I wear a longer windbreaker jacket, and the tellers would never know Im carrying. Problem is, if I do have to detain someone [who isnt a threat with a gun or w/e] my pistol could fall out of my holster, hence getting me fired. Ive heard the saying many times "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" and I have considered carrying my weapon into the bank with me. My question is, would you? I was told earlier today by a manager of my company that if a crime happens i.e robbery, Im not to stop the crime, but I am to just take notes [if Im outside in my car] and provide the details to the police. I asked myself after I was dumbfounded, "what the hell am I here for then?"
I routinely open doors for members of the bank, refill the deposit slips, walk around the bank and look for things suspicious, and have even been told by the tellers that if someone is to rob the bank and we see them in time, Im to go behind the glass with the other employees....So, what the hell am I there for? Robbers tend to shoot the guy who they BELIEVE have a gun, and well, Im standing at the door with a smile on my face, greeting him...Am I supposed to just tuck tail and run? It goes against what I was trained in the Army, Im to always engage the suspect if I have a weapon pointed at me, or other innocent people around me....Give or take a few words...
Back to my point and question, would YOU carry in the bank? Theres no posted signs on the building and it is not a federal institution. I could be fired if Im found to have a pistol on me, but then again, my managers carry everywhere they go, I DO have my CPL, and it is my right to defend myself. Im currently looking into getting with another security company, so that I can carry without hastle.

Im conflicted on this issue. I have NO bulletproof vest, and theyre too expensive for me to buy outright at the moment. I just believe it is ignorant to have unarmed security [and Im nothing more than a glorified door greeter anyways] I make 8.20 an hour, the marked company vehicle has been removed from my location, and all Im left with is my Red Grand Am with 2 magnets on the sides....What a deterrent right? Im basically invisible until you get to the door.....
Should I carry concealed in the bank, or not?
Click to expand...

Dude, there is no way in hell I would do your job unamred, weather it was permited or not, get yourself a GOOD holster one that the weapon wont fall out of KEEP IT CONCEALED and go to work, Jesus $8 dollars a hr, and you got to worry about getting shot, and you cant shoot back, so if you do get fired, you have a leagle permit so you can't be prosocuted, just run off, and $8 dollar a hr jobs cant be that hard to find
 
Why on the world would a bank want an unarmed security guard? if note-taking was the goal, they could hire some minimum wage flunky to do that.
In my opinion, you're the first guy that the robber is gonna cap. Either because 1) he's gonna think you are armed, or 2) You're the note-taker or the one who he thinks might try to be the hero.
I'd request another assignement or another security company. I'm not familiar with MI laws, but when I was a guard company owner in Houston, concealed carrying on a post could get you in legal trouble as well as your security guard permit yanked.
 
HK4U said:
I beg to differ I have worked contract security and also several years in law enforcement however as I said before one has to decide what he is most afraid of/concerned for. No one can answer that for another. If you feel comfortable not being armed then that is the way to go. If you fear for your life then do what you think you need to do. Your employer will not raise your kids if you are killed. As I said before "Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6". That is my motto. Everyone else will have to chose for themselves.
Click to expand...

I get a kick out of people with their tough, false bravado mottos, and the ability to give bad advice to someone who should have left the subject alone after his supervisor laid the facts on him. I didn't give advice to this person, I just told him the facts of what to expect if he was to carry on his job.
 
Ed Hamberger said:
I get a kick out of people with their tough, false bravado mottos, and the ability to give bad advice to someone who should have left the subject alone after his supervisor laid the facts on him. I didn't give advice to this person, I just told him the facts of what to expect if he was to carry on his job.
Click to expand...


I get a kick out of those that are so full of self importance that they think the only good advice is the advice they give others. I am so glad we have someone like you to help set us all straight. You sir are a legend in your on mind.
 
No disrespect at all. The Iceman has it right. In this world of feel good political correctness you are just window dressing to give the perception of safety!
As an unarmed guard they can't be paying you much$$$> I'd leave that job and go flip burgers. At least there you would be appreciated for the work you do with the possibility
of management promotions. You can always work toward a security job where you can at least protect yourself and not be "used".
Find another job that will get you by without risk then leave that security position.
Good Luck!
 
If I were you, I would find a job where I can carry. The first person to get shot at in an armed bank robbery will be the security guard, especially if they are open carrying. It's better conceal. Although, I think I would rather be fired than fired upon and dead.
 
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