I have an education background, and I considering teaching the Illinois CC Course to those seeking a CC license. Can anyone with experience give me advise on what to charge? As Illinois has more restrictions than any other state with 16 hours of training, several practice shooting at a range, background screening ect. I thought about charging $400.00 but with all the cost it could be well over $600. Illinois legislators are trying to make it difficult for anyone to have the CC within Illinois.
Illinois Instructor CC Course
- Thread starter CC_Man
- Start date
jpm84092
New member
Having a teaching background does not necessarily mean that you would make a good firearms instructor, unless of course, your background in teaching is in teaching firearms instruction. From what I have learned on the IL site, to become an IL instructor you must either be law enforcement, or, be certified as an instructor by a law enforcement agency. I have thought about looking into this because my certification as a Utah Concealed Firearm Permit instructor comes from a Law Enforcement Agency, the Utah Department of Public Safety.
Now, to your question. the NRA Basic Pistol Course takes about 6 hours and the instructors I know get $80 - $120 for it. Twice the course would mean twice the money. It really depends on whether your goal is to get as many of your fellow IL citizens into their permits at a reasonable cost, or make money.My own personal philosophy is that my day job feeds the cats and I teach to make as many people as possible safe, conscientious firearms owners. I teach the UT course to UT (or when I am in WI to anyone who attends) for $40 (minus discounts for NRA membership or military service or victim of domestic abuse). At that rate, I would charge $160 for the IL course. But that is just me.
Now, to your question. the NRA Basic Pistol Course takes about 6 hours and the instructors I know get $80 - $120 for it. Twice the course would mean twice the money. It really depends on whether your goal is to get as many of your fellow IL citizens into their permits at a reasonable cost, or make money.My own personal philosophy is that my day job feeds the cats and I teach to make as many people as possible safe, conscientious firearms owners. I teach the UT course to UT (or when I am in WI to anyone who attends) for $40 (minus discounts for NRA membership or military service or victim of domestic abuse). At that rate, I would charge $160 for the IL course. But that is just me.
Thank you for your response, your feed back is helpful. My concern is in order to run this as a business you will need to charge much more. First you must consider the cost of the training from the Illinois State Police, commercial space, advertising and the fact that the training is 16 hours. The training time will most likely only be effective if the class is broken down into 4 hours segments. I do agree and will take your advise on the military discount, that's something that I will incorporate into the program if I decide to move forward. The other thing that comes to mind is that you mention you teach the NRA Basic Pistol Course. Does the NRA provide you with the curriculum? If so, this would make it much easier than dedicating the time and effort creating a 16 hours of material and activities to meet the Illinois standards. I want to be fair and offer the course at the right price for everyone, but I don't what to be upside down and lose money either.
jpm84092
New member
Hi,
Yes, NRA does publish a textbook (booklet) for each NRA course and the instructors have the interactive slide show to teach the course with. I agree that the course should be broken up into 4 four-hour modules; probably each one with a specific theme and best spread over two days time. It will be interesting to see what the Illinois State Police come up with for required training. My personal thought is that the IL Legislature crafted a law that for the most part preserves the Status Quo - particularly for the poor who cannot afford the training costs and fees.
Yes, NRA does publish a textbook (booklet) for each NRA course and the instructors have the interactive slide show to teach the course with. I agree that the course should be broken up into 4 four-hour modules; probably each one with a specific theme and best spread over two days time. It will be interesting to see what the Illinois State Police come up with for required training. My personal thought is that the IL Legislature crafted a law that for the most part preserves the Status Quo - particularly for the poor who cannot afford the training costs and fees.
grizzerr
New member
In Missouri CCW classes usually go for $100-125.00 for a mandatory 8 hour class, Range and classroom fees usually vary, but are usually per student. That can be included in the tuition price or as an add on. I pay $15.00 per student per day for classroom and range. Advertising in local gunshops and on local gun forums is free. Newspaper ads don't get much response so in my opinion a waste of time. My website gets a lot of views and responses, cost is $42.00 per month. An NRA LE Firearms Instructor's class is $595.00 plus your travel and ammo and it's a full week long (Monday-Friday).
The NRA does have all the teaching materials for their courses, but they probably aren't going to fulfill the IL state requirements for CCW. MO's certainly don't. The state will most have a specified list of topics to be taught and qualification requirements that you'll have to write a lesson plan for and you may even be required to submit that lesson plan to the state for approval.
You said you have an education background. Is any of that teaching firearms and what is your firearms experience and level of training? The reason I ask is that $400-600.00 is extremely high for a CCW class even if it's 16 hours long. My background is over 20 years LE and instructing firearms, combatives and use of force. In addition to having my own training business and also teach for an internationally recognized company. Our combat firearms classes for a 16 hour class are $400-450.00. I agree with jmp that $150-160.0 is more reasonable for a CCW class. Unless you've got something more to offer your students than an NRA Basic Pistol Instructor Certification you're not going to get those tuitions unless that becomes the market price in IL and if it does I'll be coming over there to teach too.
My point is you'r not going to make much profit much less a living teaching CCW. 80% of the students are there because they have to be and really don't care what the curriculum is as long as they get their certificate and will never take another class or even practice with their weapon, but that other 20% who want to learn to be gunfighters are the reason I teach CCW.
It'll be interesting to see what happens in IL as for instructor requirements. Here in MO you can't hardly turn a corner without running into a CCW Instructor.
The NRA does have all the teaching materials for their courses, but they probably aren't going to fulfill the IL state requirements for CCW. MO's certainly don't. The state will most have a specified list of topics to be taught and qualification requirements that you'll have to write a lesson plan for and you may even be required to submit that lesson plan to the state for approval.
You said you have an education background. Is any of that teaching firearms and what is your firearms experience and level of training? The reason I ask is that $400-600.00 is extremely high for a CCW class even if it's 16 hours long. My background is over 20 years LE and instructing firearms, combatives and use of force. In addition to having my own training business and also teach for an internationally recognized company. Our combat firearms classes for a 16 hour class are $400-450.00. I agree with jmp that $150-160.0 is more reasonable for a CCW class. Unless you've got something more to offer your students than an NRA Basic Pistol Instructor Certification you're not going to get those tuitions unless that becomes the market price in IL and if it does I'll be coming over there to teach too.
My point is you'r not going to make much profit much less a living teaching CCW. 80% of the students are there because they have to be and really don't care what the curriculum is as long as they get their certificate and will never take another class or even practice with their weapon, but that other 20% who want to learn to be gunfighters are the reason I teach CCW.
It'll be interesting to see what happens in IL as for instructor requirements. Here in MO you can't hardly turn a corner without running into a CCW Instructor.
TacticalPirate
New member
As with anything, what you can charge will be what the market will bear. You'll need to find out what other instructors are charging, and base your rates off theirs. You can charge more than others, but you'll need to tell your prospective students in a compelling manner why you're worth more. And, since no one in Illinois is certified to teach the course yet (just another way the state puts off the inevitable) it's going to be difficult for you to come up with a pricing structure as nobody has theirs out yet. My son lives in IL, and is currently waiting ISP out for certification.
Valid points have been made about your education background being applicable to firearms. It's a pretty specialized field. You're also going to instructing on law, holsters, manner of dress, situational awareness, etc., etc..
Find out what you need to know, learn it, and approach this as you would any business.
Valid points have been made about your education background being applicable to firearms. It's a pretty specialized field. You're also going to instructing on law, holsters, manner of dress, situational awareness, etc., etc..
Find out what you need to know, learn it, and approach this as you would any business.
I don't know what the charge will be in IL. In Oklahoma the class is set at $60 by state law for an 8-hour class, also the class size is limited to 10 student per instructor. Some instructors charge less—which doesn't make sense. So hopefully, the IL legislature will not set the course price. The NRA Basic Pistol class is 8-hours (NRA rules).
I charge $90 for a 10 hour course in TX. I joined my local Chamber of Commerce and use their conference room for free when it is not scheduled for Chamber business. Since I teach on weekends, it is never busy. My students pay whatever the range charges for them to enter (different ranges, different prices).
In the state of TX, every instructor must be an NRA Pistol Instructor or a Law Enforcement Firearms Instructor. We are also required to attend a 36-40 hour training with a range qualification using pistol AND revolver. They do not provide our curriculum. The TX law is the curriculum guide. I wrote my own course based on the training I received and spend a good deal of time on state laws, Non-Violent Dispute Resolution and Use of Force. Students are expected to know shooting fundamentals before they attend class.
In the state of TX, every instructor must be an NRA Pistol Instructor or a Law Enforcement Firearms Instructor. We are also required to attend a 36-40 hour training with a range qualification using pistol AND revolver. They do not provide our curriculum. The TX law is the curriculum guide. I wrote my own course based on the training I received and spend a good deal of time on state laws, Non-Violent Dispute Resolution and Use of Force. Students are expected to know shooting fundamentals before they attend class.
CharlesMorrison
Banned
Sounds to me as though your just trying to grab "a slice of the pie" to me.
You want to rake in the dough, not help your fellow gun owners out.
If you don't already have your license to teach the course, you are not going to just "jump in" so you can charge exorbitant amounts of money.
Good to see that people are there to help out all those who fought this unconstitutional infringement, for so long just for the God given right of self defense. I mean its not bad enough that the crooks in charge have raped the citizens for SOOOO long over this. Now, everyone wants to screw the little guy just when there appears to be a light at the end of the tunnel...
$600 for a "class" and background check? Sounds to me that the legal battles are not over yet. Anyone who is looking to profit off of the misery of other less fortunate should be ashamed of themselves!
I don't think what you propose will "help" anyone but yourself.
Sent from behind enemy lines.
You want to rake in the dough, not help your fellow gun owners out.
If you don't already have your license to teach the course, you are not going to just "jump in" so you can charge exorbitant amounts of money.
Good to see that people are there to help out all those who fought this unconstitutional infringement, for so long just for the God given right of self defense. I mean its not bad enough that the crooks in charge have raped the citizens for SOOOO long over this. Now, everyone wants to screw the little guy just when there appears to be a light at the end of the tunnel...
$600 for a "class" and background check? Sounds to me that the legal battles are not over yet. Anyone who is looking to profit off of the misery of other less fortunate should be ashamed of themselves!
I don't think what you propose will "help" anyone but yourself.
Sent from behind enemy lines.
This is a service your offering to the public that takes your time. Illinois has a 16 hour requirement for classroom training & range time. No one "jumping in" because on one in Illinois has a current license to instructor such a course. Illinois has the most restrictions in the nation. Lets be realistic here this is not charity and will not be for everyone. I stated I considered charging $400 which is $25.00 per hour this is for creating a curriculum, which will take sometime. Having a building, advertising, insurance, incorporating your company. The additional cost is a hypothetical estimate of two hundred dollars, this is in background check, fingerprinting, fee for the license. I guess my questions is are you currently a instructor? If yes what is your states requirements? Did you write the curriculum? Are you incorporated? Do you carry insurance? Thanks for you comment.
This course is 16 hours in length this would be a 4 day course in 4 hour segments. This is why I feel it is fair to charge $25.00 per hour for my time.
grizzerr
New member
It's already been asked, but I'll ask it again. What makes you worth $25.00 an hour and your class worth $400.00?
Not trying to be argumentative but you've got to have more to offer than an education background and whatever basic firearms instructor class required by the state.
CharlesMorrison
Banned
Which is why I think this "guy" is being a jerk.
IF he's a licensed instructor, which I seriously doubt he is, what on Gods green earth makes his "services" worth more than another instructors?
I'll give you a hint.... NOT A DAMN THING!
He's looking to rape people because he knows that to get a CCW, people will have to pay his price or continue to go without one.
What Illinois needs is regulation to prevent this kind of behavior in the first place!
With exorbitant prices like this guy wants to charge, only the elite or the well off will even have a chance to carry a firearm for protection.
Sent from behind enemy lines.
TacticalPirate
New member
Currently, there are no licensed IL CWP instructors.
As I said earlier, price is what the market will bear. The vast majority of students in a CWP course are there just to get the certificate, not to learn anything. These same students, when presented with two instructors charging different amounts, will invariably end up going to the cheaper of the two. To them, the results are the same...they get the paperwork they need.
And no, the state DOESN'T need to regulate the pricing. First, that would guarantee they would price it out of everyone's reach, as the leadership of the People's Republic of Illinois didn't want this law passed in the first place. Second, have you not noticed what "government regulation" has done to this country the past several years? We certainly don't need more of it.
We're a consumer society. We have free choice. If I don't want to pay $400 for a CWP course (and CC_Man, I certainly wouldn't) I won't. I'll go to whomever I think is providing the best value for the price.
As I said earlier, price is what the market will bear. The vast majority of students in a CWP course are there just to get the certificate, not to learn anything. These same students, when presented with two instructors charging different amounts, will invariably end up going to the cheaper of the two. To them, the results are the same...they get the paperwork they need.
And no, the state DOESN'T need to regulate the pricing. First, that would guarantee they would price it out of everyone's reach, as the leadership of the People's Republic of Illinois didn't want this law passed in the first place. Second, have you not noticed what "government regulation" has done to this country the past several years? We certainly don't need more of it.
We're a consumer society. We have free choice. If I don't want to pay $400 for a CWP course (and CC_Man, I certainly wouldn't) I won't. I'll go to whomever I think is providing the best value for the price.
jpm84092
New member
First, let me say I stand corrected by GMC-photo. I believe I made a typo when I wrote that the NRA Basic Pistol Course was 6 hours when indeed by NRA rule it is 8 hours long. The NRA First Steps pistol course can be taught in 6 hours. It occurs to me upon reading what is posted so far that the question of your (CC_Man) firearms instructor credentials is being ignored. As I read the IL Bill and the FAQ on the Illinois State Police website, potential IL CCW instructors must already be either P.O.S.T Certified Firearms Instructors or be Certified as a Firearms Instructor by a Law Enforcement Agency of IL or another State. Having NRA Certification as a Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, is not enough. (Although, to date, you nave not claimed NRA Instructor status - and have not registered with USA Carry as a Certified Firearms Instructor.) Many States allow for somebody with just NRA certification to teach their course, but others, such as Utah, require an instructor to have been certified first, by NRA or P.O.S.T Certification, and then also by a Law Enforcement Agency. In the case of Utah, this is the Utah Department of Public Safety; Bureau of Criminal Identification (BCI) AND the Utah Highway Patrol (the UHP Unit assigned to BCI for certifying Firearms Instructors).
Grizzerr also makes an interesting and very valid point. My day job pays the bills so I tend to offer discounted CFP and NRA courses because that is not my primary source of income. I am more interested in making sure that my friends, neighbors, and students, have the Knowledge, Skills, and Attitude necessary to be responsible gun owners who might one day (God Forbid) need to defend themselves or others from threat of death or serious bodily injury. I too have noted that only about 20% of students are really interested in learning new self-defense skills - they go on to take additional training above and beyond the UT minumums. The other 80% are just looking for the Certification papers.
Now, CC_Man, I have a challenge for you, The new IL law requires that one put 30 of 30 (on average) rounds onto a B-27 Law Enforcement Qualification (paper) target at 5, 7, and 15 yards. That very similar to the NV requirement, except that the shooting stations are at 3 yards, 7 yards, and 15 yards (same as the qualification shoot for FBI and TSA Air Marshal) with a score of 70%. To become an NRA Instructor, the requirement is similar, but all rounds must be put onto a 9-inch paper plate. If you are absolutely sure that you could enter a range tomorrow and shoot that qualification, then, by all means, seek out an NRA Training Counselor (Lists available on NRA's Website) to become an NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol. If not, I recommend that before you proceed much further, you get with a Professional Firearms Instructor and train until you can. For what it is worth, the NRA Basic Instructor Course is 8 - 10 hours and the NRA Pistol Discipline add on is another 8 - 10 hours. It occurs to me that to become an IL CFP Instructor, you must first qualify for an IL CFP, The NRA courses referenced above may qualify, IF, they were taught by an NRA Training Counselor who is also certified by a Law Enforcement Agency (or has NRA LE Certified Trainer).
Don't take this wrong, I am not trying to insult or denigrate you in any way. But, if you want to teach CFP in Illinois, you really do need to be a firearms instructor who is certified by an Il Law Enforcement Agency or a Law Enforcement Agency of another State. It is that second requirement that leads me to believe that there will be a whole lot of folks seeking the NRA Basic Pistol qualification locally and then traveling to Salt Lake City to take the Utah Department of Public Safety Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor course.
Best of luck to you,
Jim
Grizzerr also makes an interesting and very valid point. My day job pays the bills so I tend to offer discounted CFP and NRA courses because that is not my primary source of income. I am more interested in making sure that my friends, neighbors, and students, have the Knowledge, Skills, and Attitude necessary to be responsible gun owners who might one day (God Forbid) need to defend themselves or others from threat of death or serious bodily injury. I too have noted that only about 20% of students are really interested in learning new self-defense skills - they go on to take additional training above and beyond the UT minumums. The other 80% are just looking for the Certification papers.
Now, CC_Man, I have a challenge for you, The new IL law requires that one put 30 of 30 (on average) rounds onto a B-27 Law Enforcement Qualification (paper) target at 5, 7, and 15 yards. That very similar to the NV requirement, except that the shooting stations are at 3 yards, 7 yards, and 15 yards (same as the qualification shoot for FBI and TSA Air Marshal) with a score of 70%. To become an NRA Instructor, the requirement is similar, but all rounds must be put onto a 9-inch paper plate. If you are absolutely sure that you could enter a range tomorrow and shoot that qualification, then, by all means, seek out an NRA Training Counselor (Lists available on NRA's Website) to become an NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol. If not, I recommend that before you proceed much further, you get with a Professional Firearms Instructor and train until you can. For what it is worth, the NRA Basic Instructor Course is 8 - 10 hours and the NRA Pistol Discipline add on is another 8 - 10 hours. It occurs to me that to become an IL CFP Instructor, you must first qualify for an IL CFP, The NRA courses referenced above may qualify, IF, they were taught by an NRA Training Counselor who is also certified by a Law Enforcement Agency (or has NRA LE Certified Trainer).
Don't take this wrong, I am not trying to insult or denigrate you in any way. But, if you want to teach CFP in Illinois, you really do need to be a firearms instructor who is certified by an Il Law Enforcement Agency or a Law Enforcement Agency of another State. It is that second requirement that leads me to believe that there will be a whole lot of folks seeking the NRA Basic Pistol qualification locally and then traveling to Salt Lake City to take the Utah Department of Public Safety Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor course.
Best of luck to you,
Jim
I have to agree with CharlesMorrison and will ad if you don't have a firearms background you just can't go out and get one. Been teaching for several years, I do it mainly because I like it not for the money. I now am an FFL because my students told me I should be selling also. They liked that I didn't talk down to them. Having an education background does not make you a good teacher.
New Threads
-
-
-
-
-
Mystic Seaport Museum, Shelburne Museum Vermont
- Started by Harry45255
- Replies: 0
Members online
No members online now.