I'll take real speed of draw, miss, over too slow, any day, regardless of tight group

[titon]

IF that ccw draw is a good 3/4 second faster than the "really accurate" guy's ccw draw, which mine is. You can't intimidate or shoot anyone with a gun that you don't have out and 'on" them yet, you know. 8 x out of 10 attacks, you never have to fire, IF you get your gun out where the bad guy can see it, and if you are smart enough to leave him an escape route! Big if, for a lot of folks, unfortunately! In that 3/4 second, I can fire yet another 4 shots, and make them count, most likely. I've beaten quite a few guys to the ccw draw and hit, in training, starting with my lw Commander .45 1911 variant chamber empty (but cocked and locked) to show them just how MUCH slower that they are, and how swiftly the gun can be made ready if it's left "hard" for a little kid to fire, or if you have to clear the typical malfunction. Accuracy is only 'final" if you get the hit FIRST, and then only if you splatter his brains. You can easily hit him solidly in the chest, with fairly powerful loads, and not stop him from firing many more rds. most shots in combat miss, anyway, so I want to be able to get repeat hits in sub .20 second, on the chest at 15 ft, not the .35-.45 second that so many guys need (or they miss a lot). this is especially true with hot loads in small, lw guns. the j frame 357's are silly, and so is the 18 oz .44 mag, ferchissakes. The shorty 357 gets a 125 gr jhp to 1250 fps, at best. The 4" barreled 9mm is 1" longer OAL, and gets a 115 gr bullet going 1250 fps. I'll take the 10 grs less weight, in order to hit twice as fast, twice as far away.

 

[SGB]

So ........... you're a real deal gunfighter ...

 

[Deserteagle]

IF that ccw draw is a good 3/4 second faster than the "really accurate" guy's ccw draw, which mine is. You can't intimidate or shoot anyone with a gun that you don't have out and 'on" them yet, you know. 8 x out of 10 attacks, you never have to fire, IF you get your gun out where the bad guy can see it, and if you are smart enough to leave him an escape route! Big if, for a lot of folks, unfortunately! In that 3/4 second, I can fire yet another 4 shots, and make them count, most likely. I've beaten quite a few guys to the ccw draw and hit, in training, starting with my lw Commander .45 1911 variant chamber empty (but cocked and locked) to show them just how MUCH slower that they are, and how swiftly the gun can be made ready if it's left "hard" for a little kid to fire, or if you have to clear the typical malfunction. Accuracy is only 'final" if you get the hit FIRST, and then only if you splatter his brains. You can easily hit him solidly in the chest, with fairly powerful loads, and not stop him from firing many more rds. most shots in combat miss, anyway, so I want to be able to get repeat hits in sub .20 second, on the chest at 15 ft, not the .35-.45 second that so many guys need (or they miss a lot). this is especially true with hot loads in small, lw guns. the j frame 357's are silly, and so is the 18 oz .44 mag, ferchissakes. The shorty 357 gets a 125 gr jhp to 1250 fps, at best. The 4" barreled 9mm is 1" longer OAL, and gets a 115 gr bullet going 1250 fps. I'll take the 10 grs less weight, in order to hit twice as fast, twice as far away.

So what you are saying is, shooting fast and missing is more important than being easy on the trigger and getting a tight grouping.

I for one would rather draw fast and then slow down on my shots so I hit what I aim at. In the real world, we are responsible for every bullet we shoot, so missing and killing an innocent bystander is not an option.

That's just me however. I don't feel like endangering others or committing murder with negligent gun fighting.

If drawing slow and shooting slow is what it takes to be accurate, then that is what needs to be done. Not this "draw fast and send tons of bullets their way" crap.

 

[JohnD13]

I wish I could remember which of the old west gunfighters it was but they said that he wasn't the fastest draw, but he was the most accurate shot. So. the first shot to hit it's target settles the fight. Four fast misses just causes danger for people not even involved. Accuracy is number one, speed and accuracy is great, and takes a lot of practice.

 

[Treo]

So ........... you're a real deal gunfighter ...

He's a real deal something

I think Hotti is back

 

[walt629]

So what you're saying is... you don't mind involving an innocent behind the BG you're up against as long as you got your gun out first?

You better hope that whoever you go up against doesn't believe in and practice "slow draw / fist bullet hit". Because when you bullet is zipping past his head, he used the extra second or two to bead in on the target. That target is your chest by the way.

And the gunslinger style of the wild west doesn't cut it in real life. Someone pulls a gun your fist instinct should be to combine MOVE! with cover and draw.

Do us a favor. Post your picture, so we can recognize you when you come into anywhere we are so we can get out before you spray the neighborhood.

 

[walt629]

I wish I could remember which of the old west gunfighters it was but they said that he wasn't the fastest draw, but he was the most accurate shot. So. the first shot to hit it's target settles the fight. Four fast misses just causes danger for people not even involved. Accuracy is number one, speed and accuracy is great, and takes a lot of practice.

Wyatt Earp? maybe?

 

[Treo]

Wyatt Earp? maybe?

Slow is smooth , smooth is fast

 

[Treo]

cause that's about all the time you will get. The crap starts at 10 ft and closer, and he can certainly raise his gun and get off several TRIES at hitting you in 1.0 second. He can also charge from 10 ft and strike/tackle you in 1.0 second. From 6 ft, it's 1.2 second (or less, if he DIVES at you). A DIVING man is a very difficult target to hit, by the way! He can THROW that prybar, big flashlight, channel lock pliers at you in 1/4 second, and THEN charge/dive at you as you duck/block the flying item, too.

From low ready, at 10 ft, you can learn to react, twitch up your wrist, and hit the chest in less than 1/2 second, get 3 more chest hits in .50 second, too. it's not that tough to achieve this ability, given an SA .22, 380 or 9mm, either. Raising the arms, gun and all, is about .20 second slower than merely twitching your wrists enough to let the gun come up and hit the chest. However, the "twitch" requires a lot more practice to get such hits that quickly, and if you have to traverse on a sideways plane, in order to get the hit, the arm and all move is a LOT more likely to get the hits.

Anyone else think hotti is back?

 

[wdworker]

speed of draw

If the author of this post has been tested @.20 od a second from a concealed carry , he needs to be on ALL the shooting shows as the "EXPERT" as Mr. Bob Munden( who is listed in the Gunniess book of records ( older ones , as the now poticallt correct book no longer list cicilian firearms records) has been timed @ .13 of a xecond form the hip. .However np other competion shooter has been clocked close to this. currebt fast draw shooters are maxing out @ app. .27 or .28 of a second & their hand is only inches from the holster & this writer claims to be faster from a concealed position whit a gatment covering the weapon & in order Not to give awasy the fact he is carrying hands should be in a normal position .i.e. @ his side. I just vind this hard to believe. (I am a former FastDraw competition shooter , Former Sgt. USAF Police force, former private security office & a gun club safety officer.Also 1 of my brothers & myself received a 3 hour lesson from Mr. Munden in person.

 

[BigSlick]

I wish I could remember which of the old west gunfighters it was but they said that he wasn't the fastest draw, but he was the most accurate shot. So. the first shot to hit it's target settles the fight. Four fast misses just causes danger for people not even involved. Accuracy is number one, speed and accuracy is great, and takes a lot of practice.

Gene Hackman in Unforgiven: "Look son, being a good shot, being quick with a pistol, that don't do no harm, but it don't mean much next to being cool-headed. A man who will keep his head and not get rattled under fire, like as not, he'll kill ya. It ain't so easy to shoot a man anyhow, especially if the son-of-a-***** is shootin' back at you".

There's a lot of truth to this even though its from a movie.

 

[wdworker]

E.l. WARNER , Who, as a teen, rode with Pancho Villa & was in 8 face to face gunfights. ( killed 7 of the 8 outright, wounded once & killed the man who wounded him). said to watch your opponets eyes, because they will give away his moves before his hands will He is listed as an tech. asvisor for some of the older western movies. When I met him he was in his 80's & still shooting .50 of a second (target @ 8 ft.) He was guest of honor @ a regional meet>

 

[Wyldekard]

IF that ccw draw is a good 3/4 second faster than the "really accurate" guy's ccw draw, which mine is. You can't intimidate or shoot anyone with a gun that you don't have out and 'on" them yet, you know. 8 x out of 10 attacks, you never have to fire, IF you get your gun out where the bad guy can see it, and if you are smart enough to leave him an escape route! Big if, for a lot of folks, unfortunately! In that 3/4 second, I can fire yet another 4 shots, and make them count, most likely. I've beaten quite a few guys to the ccw draw and hit, in training, starting with my lw Commander .45 1911 variant chamber empty (but cocked and locked) to show them just how MUCH slower that they are, and how swiftly the gun can be made ready if it's left "hard" for a little kid to fire, or if you have to clear the typical malfunction. Accuracy is only 'final" if you get the hit FIRST, and then only if you splatter his brains. You can easily hit him solidly in the chest, with fairly powerful loads, and not stop him from firing many more rds. most shots in combat miss, anyway, so I want to be able to get repeat hits in sub .20 second, on the chest at 15 ft, not the .35-.45 second that so many guys need (or they miss a lot). this is especially true with hot loads in small, lw guns. the j frame 357's are silly, and so is the 18 oz .44 mag, ferchissakes. The shorty 357 gets a 125 gr jhp to 1250 fps, at best. The 4" barreled 9mm is 1" longer OAL, and gets a 115 gr bullet going 1250 fps. I'll take the 10 grs less weight, in order to hit twice as fast, twice as far away.

Wow I guess the holiday season has started because this post is more full of crap than a Xmas goose!!

 

[kerb]

Re: I'll take real speed of draw, miss, over too slow, any day

IF that ccw draw is a good 3/4 second faster than the "really accurate" guy's ccw draw, which mine is. You can't intimidate or shoot anyone with a gun that you don't have out and 'on" them yet, you know. 8 x out of 10 attacks, you never have to fire, IF you get your gun out where the bad guy can see it, and if you are smart enough to leave him an escape route! Big if, for a lot of folks, unfortunately! In that 3/4 second, I can fire yet another 4 shots, and make them count, most likely. I've beaten quite a few guys to the ccw draw and hit, in training, starting with my lw Commander .45 1911 variant chamber empty (but cocked and locked) to show them just how MUCH slower that they are, and how swiftly the gun can be made ready if it's left "hard" for a little kid to fire, or if you have to clear the typical malfunction. Accuracy is only 'final" if you get the hit FIRST, and then only if you splatter his brains. You can easily hit him solidly in the chest, with fairly powerful loads, and not stop him from firing many more rds. most shots in combat miss, anyway, so I want to be able to get repeat hits in sub .20 second, on the chest at 15 ft, not the .35-.45 second that so many guys need (or they miss a lot). this is especially true with hot loads in small, lw guns. the j frame 357's are silly, and so is the 18 oz .44 mag, ferchissakes. The shorty 357 gets a 125 gr jhp to 1250 fps, at best. The 4" barreled 9mm is 1" longer OAL, and gets a 115 gr bullet going 1250 fps. I'll take the 10 grs less weight, in order to hit twice as fast, twice as far away.

It all sounds good on paper.
Problem is, I just don't believe your numbers. 4 shots on target in 3/4ths of a second? Uh huh.
Ima start calling you TJ Hooker.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

 

[flcracker]

My personal point of view:

"Sometimes it isn't being fast that counts, or even accurate; but willing. Most men will draw a breath or blink an eye before they shoot. I won't." JB Books

And one more from John Bernard that I pretty much 'live by' in my everyday life:

"I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them." JB Books

FLc

 

[JohnD13]

Gene Hackman in Unforgiven: "Look son, being a good shot, being quick with a pistol, that don't do no harm, but it don't mean much next to being cool-headed. A man who will keep his head and not get rattled under fire, like as not, he'll kill ya. It ain't so easy to shoot a man anyhow, especially if the son-of-a-***** is shootin' back at you".

There's a lot of truth to this even though its from a movie.

I have got to see that movie some day, a number of friends say it's good. The fellow I'm thinking of may have been Wyatt Earp. It wasn't John Wesley Hardin, he was reputed to be both the fastest and most accurate gunman of his time.

 

[the dark]

Standing in the real world, crowded with people, being able to get shots on target is paramount. Standing there slinging lead is irresponsible. Get off the X, seek cover, place your shots, prevail. Sling lead, maybe survive, end up in prison or sued for negligent homicide.

 

[The_Outlaw]

IF that ccw draw is a good 3/4 second faster than the "really accurate" guy's ccw draw, which mine is. You can't intimidate or shoot anyone with a gun that you don't have out and 'on" them yet, you know. 8 x out of 10 attacks, you never have to fire, IF you get your gun out where the bad guy can see it, and if you are smart enough to leave him an escape route! Big if, for a lot of folks, unfortunately! In that 3/4 second, I can fire yet another 4 shots, and make them count, most likely. I've beaten quite a few guys to the ccw draw and hit, in training, starting with my lw Commander .45 1911 variant chamber empty (but cocked and locked) to show them just how MUCH slower that they are, and how swiftly the gun can be made ready if it's left "hard" for a little kid to fire, or if you have to clear the typical malfunction. Accuracy is only 'final" if you get the hit FIRST, and then only if you splatter his brains. You can easily hit him solidly in the chest, with fairly powerful loads, and not stop him from firing many more rds. most shots in combat miss, anyway, so I want to be able to get repeat hits in sub .20 second, on the chest at 15 ft, not the .35-.45 second that so many guys need (or they miss a lot). this is especially true with hot loads in small, lw guns. the j frame 357's are silly, and so is the 18 oz .44 mag, ferchissakes. The shorty 357 gets a 125 gr jhp to 1250 fps, at best. The 4" barreled 9mm is 1" longer OAL, and gets a 115 gr bullet going 1250 fps. I'll take the 10 grs less weight, in order to hit twice as fast, twice as far away.

WTF are you talking about dude?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Why not just leave the gun unloaded and rely 100% upon the "element of surprise"?

 

[Rocketgeezer]

So ........... you're a real deal gunfighter ...

At least when he's practicing quick draws in the mirror