Ok Im pretty sure im right on this but just need a little more back up. Im selling my rifle and im in IL ( i know dont start) and live 10min from St.Louis and a MO reident wants to buy it. So the question is which i believe it is to sell my rifle to him FTF across state lines. I know handguns are a huge NO NO. But just want extra belief that Im correct.
IL to MO FTF sale??????
- Thread starter cripps72
- Start date
S&W645
NRA Life Member
FTF sales are between two residents of the same state only. Otherwise it has to go to an FFL. An FFL can sell a rifle or shotgun to someone from an adjoining state. You can also transfer it to an FFL in the buyer's state for them to pickup there. But legally, you can't take it to his state and sell directly either.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
Unless something has changed in the last six months or so, you're fine selling rifles FTF across state lines. I go to estate sales (auctions) pretty regularly, and the auctioneer always makes clear that out-of-staters can bid on rifles, but not handguns.
Blues
Blues
BluesStringer
Les Brers
Well...wait...645 and I were posting at the same time.
I guess the auctioneers to which I referred were working through an FFL. Nevermind.
Blues
I guess the auctioneers to which I referred were working through an FFL. Nevermind.
Blues
Sir Diealotz
New member
Take it to a FFL dealer in that state.
S&W645
NRA Life Member
If he buys/gets it from an FFL in your state or his, there will be a fee. FFLs have to log it into their books and back out again. That takes time and so costs money. The FFL will also have to have him fill out the Form 4473. That takes more time and depending on the state, requires a NICS check. Anyone can buy online but final delivery between two states requires an FFL to handle it. Most will charge around $25 for the transfer and whatever the NICS check costs. Shipping is extra but you can deliver to an FFL yourself.
A private party can only sell rifles/handguns/shotguns to residents of their own state (and state laws, such as California, may prohibit that). 18 USC 922 (a)(3) and (a)(5) prohibit private party sales of residents of different states, regardless of handgun/rifle/shotgun and regardless of the state being contiguous or not.
An FFL can sell and/or transfer a rifle or shotgun to a resident of any state so long as the state laws of both the FFL and the buyer are followed, allowed by 18 USC 922 (b)(3). It used to be that an FFL could only sell to a resident of a contiguous state, but the contiguous limitation was removed from Federal law in 1986.
I think Illinois requires and FOID for rifles/shotguns? If so, the rifle/shotgun must be sent to a Missouri FFL for transfer to the Missouri resident, unless the Missouri resident obtains the Illinois FOID.
Here is a link to the Federal law:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922
An FFL can sell and/or transfer a rifle or shotgun to a resident of any state so long as the state laws of both the FFL and the buyer are followed, allowed by 18 USC 922 (b)(3). It used to be that an FFL could only sell to a resident of a contiguous state, but the contiguous limitation was removed from Federal law in 1986.
I think Illinois requires and FOID for rifles/shotguns? If so, the rifle/shotgun must be sent to a Missouri FFL for transfer to the Missouri resident, unless the Missouri resident obtains the Illinois FOID.
Here is a link to the Federal law:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922
Ok thank you all was just making sure, but my buyer in MO states we can meet at sheriffs office do a bill of sale they will asign the new ownership to him. I have never heard of this and willing to try if he says it works i guess worst case for him they say no goto to a ffl. States it can be done that way and its 5 dollars, like I said i have never heard of this but il see if it flys no harm on my part.
No harm, other than committing a Federal felony in front of a law enforcement officer. But it's up to you. Just make it very clear that you are a resident of Illinois and the transfer violates Federal law unless it goes through an FFL (Federal Fireams License holder). If the Sheriff signs off on it, good for him/her, they are now conspiring to commit a Federal felony.
It doesn't matter what the Sheriff/Missouri Resident says is OK or not. You may very well be able to sell the rifle to the Missouri resident and have the Sheriff witness the sale. The fact of the matter is, I have provided you with the relevant Federal law that you will be violating if the rifle is not transferred by a person/company holding a Federal Firearms License. If the Sheriff happens to have a Federal Firearms License, than it is all good. If not, the transfer WILL violate Federal law. AND, on top of that, if the rifle happens to be removed from a locked case within 1000' of a school on public property, including a Sheriff's office which is public property, you will also violate the Federal School Zone law.
Thank You all and Navy I do believe what you have posted. I come to this site to become more informed on matters. Before I posted I was reading around trying to find info on web and I did read everything all of you have said but just wanted to confirm on here. And i asked about the sheriff thing because I myself have never heard of this did not know if it was something I missed.
Between two residents of Missouri, going to the Sheriff would accomplish nothing. The Sheriff has no power/ability to "assign the new ownership to him" because there is no firearms registration in Missouri. The buyer is very lacking in knowledge of firearms laws, both Federal and Missouri.
Hopefully in the front seat as driver/EMT!
Also.... and I hate to even look at/put on this tin foil hat.... there are sting operations going on to attempt to entice firearms sellers to violate Federal law. What better place to conduct such a sting operation than at a LE agency. The buyers in these sting operations such as the Bloomberg boys somehow manage to exempt themselves from the law.
nontechguy
New member
No one has mentioned this. If the seller has a IL FOID, doesn't he have to start in IL to get it out of his name and turn in the FOID card for that firearm?
There is no firearms registration in Illinois (other than handgun registration in Chicago). The FOID is Firearms OWNER Identification, not firearms identification.
Just to let you all know drove over to MO and went to gun store and did the transfer the way it had to be done through the FFL. We all ended up happy without problems. I walked away with a grand for a 185 series Mini 14 with 5 mags and a case. I pick up my 1911 on thursday. And yes I cannot wait it will be my first 1911. Thanks all.
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