I would not consider teaching anyone who is not reasonably competent in hand to hand


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Why wouldn't I teach someone who is not reasonably competent in hand to hand fighting?

Because most street shooting deaths occur within 6ft
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So there is a very good chance that you will have physical contact with an attacker.

If you don't know how to to deflect an attackers hand, and or evade and conceal,or disable that attacker, you are going to get in trouble sooner or later.

For those who disagree, They are also disagreeing with Col Applegate, and Jeff Cooper.

To let a person believe that just being able to shoot a firearm a few times is going to keep them from harms way is gross incompetence.

This will create a sense of confidence that will not stand the test in many cases.

It's also a fact that handguns fail, and that they have any real stopping power.

As far as aiming goes, I thought Applegate made it clear that you use point shooting in most fights.

Jeff Cooper added the idea of longer range marksmanship.

but Cooper's primary audience was the Military, not civilians

Unfortunately, many civilians are just conned into both the choice of weapons, and instructors, by gun store owners just out for a profit, having no real concern for the actual safety of the store patrons.

The training necessary to get a CCW in most areas is a joke.

Notice that most instructors don't even make their students prove that they can break down and clean their weapons, never mind learn the art of point shooting.

You want serious training?

Go to Gunsite, or join the Airborne, Ranger Corps, or the

Notice the grip that Jack Ruby used when he assassinated Lee Harvey
Oswald. It's called the Chicago, or assasins grip.
Jack Ruby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's what you use in close quarters, unless you are poorly trained

It's deadly, and just pointed, not aimed!

How can he miss?

and it's very difficult to tkae the handgun from the shooter.

Jack Ruby was a pro at assasinations. Lots of experience

And it's only a J Frame .38

Imagine that!

Be Safe out there!

Don't become a customer for the Coroner.

bud (onlypill) you need to take a pill. you would not teach a poor old women in a run down crime ridden area to shoot cause she is not a trained fighter, she has kids and has to work two jobs to feed them and cloth them and send them to school. she hopes and prays they all grow up and not get killed or raped. and a handgun is the only thing she has to secure her house at night cause police do not drive around here they come in force when you call them and it take 25 30 mins for them to get here. The people who need to be able to know how to use a gun the most are the ones who can not afford it the most.
Have you read the news post 75 year old women shoot and kills 25 year old in housebreakin. or all the other shooting here OH YOUR RIGHT> SHE WAS A 10.0000 degree black belt in Hopscots.
there seem to be a lot of old people shooting the crap out of your young thugs. maybe they need lessions on how not to break the law and not get dead. You could teach that! cause you got no idea on how to teach self defence. IT NOT fighting with your fist you have to train first. it's the confidance to know how and when you should use a gun. aim. sight alingment and sight picture, breath and hold and squeeze.
I was a sgt of Marines (vet)
what about the vet in a wheelcchair. the vet with no legs. how about the blind you going cut them out too.
i teach people in wheelchairs how to fence and some of my fellow coachs teach the blind.
I don't think you should teach anyone how to do anything till you grow hair back on your head cause the sun has got to you. Or are you looking to get your selfdefence class filled up. OH OK it's a ad!!
silly me your class is for dummys. tricks are for kids!! guns are for adults!
HEY DO I QUAIFIED AS A TROLL YET! Do I get my card and ccw badge! ( G I lov ya MAN!!!)
That is just retarded. Go back to flipping patties at McDonald's. Guns are the great equalizer and have nothing to do with physical abilities.
That may be the dumbest thing anyone has ever posted on here. Most people are not attacked by ninjas or professional hitmen from the Gambino crime family. The normal neighborhood thug is some drug crazed whackjob in a hoodie with a 75 IQ. They don't normally attack 6'2" Marines (and I am certainly not telling the big and strong NOT to carry, since the strong typically are killed in drivebys, by gangs, or some other sort of ambush negating their physical prowess). The more typical targets are the old, the small, the weak, the alone, the defenseless. As a previous poster already mentioned, the old person who bought their home in better days is a lot more likely to be living in a dangerous neighborhood by herself. That 75 year old grandmother with arthritis isn't going to win at hand to hand with some 18 year old violent thug. Her one shot is that she can get to her gun and get a well placed round off before he gets his hands on her and breaks her arms. Ditto with the hot young petite college age girl being attacked by a violent former boyfriend or a sexual predator. Granted that sort of instruction is not as much fun for the instructor as debating the finer points of close in combat to knowledgable Marines; but it is more likely to save a life too.
Well Whitetiger and I agree 100% on this one and for the record.
1. I am a former Viet Nam era U.S.Marine
2. I am a former military small arm's Instructor
3. I am a retired Det. Sergeant with over 25 years in law enforcement
4. I spent over 22 years with the SWAT team as a Sniper and as the Sgt. in charge of the sniper unit
5. I have shot in both Rifle and pistol competition most of my life
6. I was the State Champion in Police handgun NRA 1500 competition in a 2 man team several times
I suppose that this is enough even tho I am not Jeff Cooper or Col. Applegate and I don't mean to put them down in anyway but each person has to find out what they are comfortable with as far as training is concerned.
Are you for real?

Look, I'll tell you what I told you in the "Hit vital points post"--should I have the time and luxury, I'll call upon the very limited martial arts training I have. But chances are, if I'm in a close quarters situation, I'm going to be scared and completely amped up on adrenalin, and I'll be lucky if I can even remember how to make a fist. I would love to have the luxury of training daily, but I have neither the time nor the resources for that. That would be why I carry a gun and practice the ancient Chinese art of Bang-pow.
I was waiting for onlydill to post something so I could accuse him of not being an instructor at all and suggest that the forum admins make him prove it or remove the tag from under his name. He's a bozo. Can his tag be changed to "bozo"?
He's right about needing to be able to fight with your hands; not all fights begin as gunfights. You need to be strong enough to get to your gun. And point shooting? He's right about that, too.

Are you really an instructor?

here is why I'm asking. Your school of learning is really dangerous...if you are teaching people, I would say to STOP doing it. How can you as an instructor do this..How can you sleep at night and say that you have provided good sane information to a person that wants to protect his family or his lov ones.

You really need a reality check, Yes you are correct that most critical encounters are less than 5ft away.

Most are less than 2ft. You not wanting to refuse training people that have no combative experience is, I guess a god sent. I would not want to pay for your classes...and also if you have people that have the combative levels you are wanting, well then you will be exposed for the crapy instructor that you are.

You need to do the following:
1.- step away from the keyboard.
2.- drop the cheetos bag.
3.- put the black ops video game on pause.
4.- remove the controller from the PS3.
5.- get the crane to move you to an upright position.
6.- get an pen and write the address of the place that gave you your instructor credentials.
7.- put your instructor credentials inside the envelope.
8.- seal the envelope.
9.- get your body to the door and open the door to put the envelope in the mail.
10.- disconnect the computer from the network.
11.- give the computer to a person that will use it for good.
12.- Get your toy guns and equipment to the next available office.
13.- tell the officer to take you in for a psyc. eval.
14.- Do not give any more advice on defence, firearms or anything of this world.

PLEASE. Enough is enough.... the people here are looking for good advice. not tacti-cool nonsense.
Things that I agree with ONLYPILL

You need to be able to defend yourself without a firearm.
You need to be able to point and shooot.
You need to be able to fight if needed to get a chance to unholster your firearm.

I do not agree with you.
not to teach a person how to defend themself unless they have the combatives. that is why they are comming to you.

You can associate yourself with someone that teaches combatives.

you are not putting down Mr Cooper or Applegate. They have different styles. We all hav different ideas and styles and we come from different training ideologies. Same will apply for the current experts like Massab Ayoub, Ron Paul ( just kidding, had to add him in to the mix, hehe). and others of our times.
So what does a paraplegic, or any other person with limiting disabilities, do since they really can't defend themselves very well without a firearm.

Should they just throw there hands up and receive their beat down?
Thanks Sgtbill I was a marine too policeman too. I have alot of fun here I hope people can take the posts I put out. most of the time i just post what i think sometime i get hot and blast away.
I do think we have a lot of smart people here and a few dingbats. I hope but can't tell what I am dingbat or a little smart. but till i get my troll ccw badge from G50AE I will carry on
Sempi FI!!!
I practice the ancient Chinese art of Bang - POW.

Localgirl I dream about ya tell me your single 21 blond female and love old guys in the fiftys with most of their hair. Hey!!! it's my Dream!! so let her tell me!!! LOL Just kidding I get too sleepy to stay out past 930 pm so I am good in dreams not so much in real life. But I am pretty. ask any of my high school team students. just tell me who so i can make then run laps. Go with God and keep your gun oiled.
I crack me up!LOL
All I can say is his business must be Good! In this economy there are very few businesses that can turn customers away and stay in business.
Are you for real?

Look, I'll tell you what I told you in the "Hit vital points post"--should I have the time and luxury, I'll call upon the very limited martial arts training I have. But chances are, if I'm in a close quarters situation, I'm going to be scared and completely amped up on adrenalin, and I'll be lucky if I can even remember how to make a fist. I would love to have the luxury of training daily, but I have neither the time nor the resources for that. That would be why I carry a gun and practice the ancient Chinese art of Bang-pow.

Hey girl: I have been a Bang Pow practitioner for a long time myself. Works for me!

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