I was told I am "Illeagaly carying my gun:!!

[Benndalebandit]

I posted this in LEO Encounters, and here for those from Mississippi.

Scary LEO Encounter: Lucedale, Ms.

On Sunday May 1, 2011 I was out for a ride on my motorcycle. I was carrying (I do have a valid Mississippi Firearms Card) my Colt Defender .45 in an OWB holster. I had on two T-shirts, the outer one was un-tucked and covering my weapon. I stopped at a gas station to get a drink, and when I pulled in I noticed a Mississippi State Patrol as well as a Lucedale City Police sitting in the parking lot of the gas station. I parked the bike and dis-mounted. At that time I noticed my T-shirt was up and my Colt Defender was exposed. Not a big deal supposedly in Mississippi with the whole “Partially Concealed” wording of the Law. When I walked out of the store with my purchase; both Officers were standing outside by the door waiting for me.
The State Officer asked me “Who do you work for”, and I was confused for a second. He was referring to my weapon and whether or not I was affiliated with any type of Law Enforcement Agency. When I informed theses officers that I was not Law Enforcement, they stated that I was” Illegal”, and that I could not carry my weapon in just a holster on my hip.” It HAS TO BE CONCEALED” was what I was told by both the State and Local PD.
If not for knowing the State Officer from my part time job as an EMT in George County, I feel I would have been arrested today! Just 12 hours earlier this SAME State Officer and I were working a car wreck together so He recognized me after a few minutes ( I was in Biker Garb and not my EMT uniform) and then He started to back off a bit.
The State Officer said that he is going to speak directly with the Mississippi State Attorney General and get His view of the Mississippi State Gun Laws, and we would talk again next time we see each other. I asked that whatever the AG decides to say, please get me something in writing, and/or direct me to the specific statue in the Law. Looks like I may get the AG of Mississippi to have to make a stand on this issue one way or another. Not sure how this will work out.

I will post again when I get the results.
-Bandit

 

[evolve]

Interesting situation to say the least! Here in good ol Florabama we have to be completely concealed. Hopefully the would be law that is in the house will be approved and that will change.

 

[Treo]

IMO any time a cop starts saying you broke any law it's time to shut up and ask for a lawyer. Also don't take the cop's word for the wording of the law you look it up for yourself

 

[Benndalebandit]

Also don't take the cop's word for the wording of the law you look it up for yourself

I have read the Mississippi Code of 1972 numerous times, and I have what is MY understanding of the laws. But, what do you do when the "Athority Figure" says you are wrong, and what HE SAYS is Law because He has the handcuffs!!

 

[CMNIII]

Also don't take the cop's word for the wording of the law you look it up for yourself

I have read the Mississippi Code of 1972 numerous times, and I have what is MY understanding of the laws. But, what do you do when the "Athority Figure" says you are wrong, and what HE SAYS is Law because He has the handcuffs!!

"He" has more than handcuffs - he has a gun. In front of him you may as well be un-armed. You draw on him - you lose. Period.

 

[Treo]

But, what do you do when the "Athority Figure" says you are wrong, and what HE SAYS is Law because He has the handcuffs!!

You say verbatium : Officer I do not wish to make any further statment or answer any questions without consulting my attorney.

Am I free to go?

 

[tbell6]

I've always been well served maintaing cordial relation with LEO and when the occassion occure with State Police (Highway Patrol in Ohio).

I know of multiple occasions when concealed carry was noticed but not acknowlged long before concealed carry was legal in Ohio. Sort an early version of don't ask dont tell. Sure am glad it's been legal for a while.

 

[Benndalebandit]

I kept it very cordial with this officer, mainly because I know him from the "streets". Plus he is a local boy working in a very small rural area which just so happens to be his home town, only he is employed by the State in regards to Law Enforcement. He is a VERY honest and trustworthy Man, and I am sure he will speak to the Mississippi Attourney general and I will at least get a verbal ruling. I did ask for something in writing so who knows, I might get lucky!

-Bandit

 

[baledge1]

Wow, you lost me for..

I live in Idaho and have to have a license to carry concealed, like you. But we can carry a firearm that is not concealed anywhere(except the usual rules).anytime

 

[Benndalebandit]

The problem is that there is no possible way to cary a firearm in the "open" or not "concealed" as far as the Mississippi Law reads. The holster is partial concealment, your hand is partial concealment, and a string tied through the trigger guard is partialy concealing the part of the trigger guard it is touching..... see what I am dealing with?

But if you have a Mississippi Firearms Permit (which I do have) then you are allowed to cary a Concealed Firearm. So when I Partialy Conceal my weapon in a holster I would need a Permit to do so per the Mississippi Gun Law. When I place that partialy concealed weapon and holster on my belt nothing changes, the weapon is still partialy concealed! So why are we being harrased??? Good question. LEO does NOT like us Pee-ons showing our ability to stand up for ourselves.

 

[Benndalebandit]

I believe I have found the answer.....

Thank you to NavyLT for opening my eyes to the obvious. Here is a quote from NavyLT:

Where in Mississippi statutes is open carry PROHIBITED? That's the question. You won't find a prohibition on open carry. That's why it is legal. You need a license to carry a gun partially concealed by a holster. But there is no prohibition in MS statute against open carry, and there is no prohibition in MS statutes against carrying a gun "partially concealed" by a holster in full view, if you have the license.

The statute you posted above is correct in that the license does not specifically allow open carry. What allows open carry is the fact that there is no statute prohibiting it. The simple answer to the police is, "Then write me a citation, please, for the statute you think I am violating.
Nothing in that section prohibits the open and unconcealed carrying of any deadly weapon, either! If a cop tries to use that particular statute to cite you for open carry, it will have to get thrown out in court because there must be a statute that prohibits an action for that action to be illegal.

So, I agree with you that the statute means nothing if the weapon is "partially concealed" by a holster (with a permit), but I would also say the statute means nothing if the gun is carried in a manner that is considered open and unconcealed.
End Quote:

So now the anticipated meeting with my friendly State Officer. I feel more confident in my knowlege of the Mississippi Code, so I am ready to hear what the LEO has to say.

-Bandit

 

[Benndalebandit]

Spoke to my Officer friendly and he said that the Mississippi Att General has said that if ANY PART of the weapon is visible, then you are illegaly carrying!!!

I guess it is going to take getting arrested.....

 

[Chap]

Spoke to my Officer friendly and he said that the Mississippi Att General has said that if ANY PART of the weapon is visible, then you are illegaly carrying!!!

I guess it is going to take getting arrested.....

Any chance the AG put that in writing?

Chap

 

[Benndalebandit]

Any chance the AG put that in writing?

Chap

I did ask for it in writing, but of course that didnt happen.

I spoke to a different State Officer at the hospital Saturday while I was at work. At first he said he didn't know what the Law said, and was not sure how he would handle someone carying a gun in a holster. Then he kept saying "You should always try and conceal it", but never outright said he would site me for it. I asked him which Mississippi State Statute I would be violating, and again all I got was, "You should try and conceal it".

 

[Blooze]

In my opinion its just too easy to conceal the weapon and avoid the hassle in the first place. That's just me I guess.

 

[accidentalfelon]

I don't know how the law has changed there since 1990 but I owned a workers comp investigation agency then and after three days of getting the runaround in Jackson I was finally told that if I wanted to conceal all I had to do was inform the Sheriff that I was concealing and give him my name. So that's what I did. Never had a problem. Practiced all the time on my own property.

Times have sure changed. Partially concealed.... You can show it but you can't.... and other such ridiculous, absurd notions that have nothing to do with common sense.

Is this still America?

 

[PatriotChuck]

I know I am a bit late replying but i did find one thing on the AG web site, maybe someone has saw it. Its from jan 14, 1993. On this opinion it says "If a handgun is not carried concealed in whole or in part then it is not in violation of state law (there can be exceptions, for example section 97-37-17 for illegal possession by a student on a campus or school grounds). Exactly what constitutes concealed in whole or in part is largely a question of fact which we do not determine, and would depend on the facts of each case."

The cop has to decide if you are open or concealed carry, if open you are good according to this opinion but if he decides you are have it concealed you have to show your permit but you would be good then too. I wasn't able to find anything else newer.

 

[fstroupe]

All of the above is the reason I have always been extremely paranoid carrying a gun of any kind anywhere in a vehicle here in my home state. (except rifle or shotgun during hunting seasons) I tell my kids and grandkids if you want to totally avoid harassment over a piece, keep the gun locked in the glove compartment, the (empty) mags under the seat and the ammo locked in the trunk....and pray that you don't need it. (none of them have attained MS carry cards yet)

It is totally up to the LEO and his interpretation of this ridiculously written statute. It doesn't matter if you are a biker type, a hippie type, a militant type, or a clean-cut middle-aged man like me, if the LEO has an attitude, or is still ticked over his last stop, you are at his mercy if he sees your piece. Sure, you might win in court, but having to go to court is not winning. What are the odds that you will happen to be stopped by a LEO with an attitude? I dunno...

It is so stupid...to be totally safe you have to have a totally concealed weapon on your person. I wish I had thought about it when I had a friend in the state legislature. I'm sure that he introduced nothing while he was there, an improvement on the writing of this statute would give him some kind of legacy anyway lol.

Anybody here have the "Enhanced" Mississippi Gun Permit? If so, what was the additional cost?

 

[DanPerry04]

Yes Sir!

I believe my reply to the officers would have been,"Yes Sir. I understand. My weapon was concealed but must have been exposed by the wind and I will better conceal it from now on. Lesson learned." Always give Law Enforcement Officers the respect they deserve. Also, it is my understanding that Mississippi CCW laws do state that the weapon must be concealed at all times.

 

[blinddog]

I was under the impression that the OC law had been repealed but I was informed by another person that it had not been. I looked under the Mississippi laws on line and could not find anywhere that it said that OC was illegal. I have my firearms permit so I CCW all of the time. Just feel more comfortable that way. Just thought I would throw that out to you for a little info.