I was made at work.... Crap


I watched the trailer.....

Here's a link to to company that produces the video my company is pushing as "required viewing".

Shot's Fired When Lightning Strikes

There was one sentence that says it all.

"You need to take direct responsibility for your safety and security." -Randy Spivey, Executive Director, Center for Personal Protection & Safety

Of course, the remaining video looks like a "roll over and take it" type of thing. I recommend taking direct responsibility.
 
Seems to me, that if you aren't supposed to be carrying at work, you should either not carry, find another job, or be prepared to accept the consequences if it suddenly became public knowledge that you were carrying.

Integrity is non-negotiable.


Thanks for the post and I'm not here to complain about company policy and I fully understand what may happen if I'm found carrying at work. I also fully understand what may happen should I need defend myself and don't have access to my firearm. I don't break the law but in this case my personal safety out weighs company policy.
 
The gun broker that sold my first gun was the one that told me where to carry on my body. He started me out with a cheap uncle bucks IWB right hand holster. He taught me to carry between 12:30 and 1:00. I hated the thought of having my firearm aimed at my groin all the time so now the smaller Kimber sits at 4oclock in a leather IWB holser. But...if I wanted to really make sure I wasn't made I'd go right back to the 1 oclock carry. Even with the large frame 4" S&W 3906 (heavy) I could easily look at the ground, or look at my reflection walking up to glass doors and make sure nothing was showing. I'm slim so this might not work for a guy with a gut, but that is the place to carry and not get made. I am always worried about getting made now with it out on my hip and only a tucked or untucked shirt covering it.

Oh, or you can walk around the office with a baggy hoody :pleasantry:
 
There was one sentence that says it all.

"You need to take direct responsibility for your safety and security." -Randy Spivey, Executive Director, Center for Personal Protection & Safety

Of course, the remaining video looks like a "roll over and take it" type of thing. I recommend taking direct responsibility.

Point taken.... I'm still having serious issues with the policy violation thing. I have ALWAYS been rated as a stellar employee and I do have a strong loyalty to my company. Doc's post seems to question the integrity of someone who would violate a company policy.

I'm not considering sneeking pens and copy paper out the back entrance here. I just don't like the thought of being helpless, if God forbid a situation like this ever occored. I see the violation as more of a civil disobedience act that may save my life or the life of others. I see the policy as the result of a legal issue and the company protecting it'self from feared litigation and just following public fear and opinion. I do understand the consequences if I were ever "found out".

Our company has in the past temporarily hired "armed security" to patrol (nap) in our front lobby in response to death threats. An obligitory act to protect from litigation in my opinion. Looks like they took the lowest bidder based on the physical appearance and lack of alertness evident in the guard they hired.

At this point I'm still weighing the risks of both decisions. I understand I have a choice of where to be employed etc. I've been with this company nearly fifteen years. I've always been pro-gun but have only in the last few years started taking my personal security more seriously. Maybe it comes from having a wife and two, soon to be three young children. I feel an obligation to stay alive and to protect them as well. I also have an obligation to provide income for my family.

Just thinking out loud mostly. Still not sure what I'll decide.
 
I got my CC permit in April and have played out this scenerio in my mind. I work for a VERY large national company with a "no wepons" policy. They actually recently sent out a mass email to all employees as a "required online course". It was a video and online class entitled, "Surviving an active shooter in the work place".

The video starts with an armed employee walking into their office obviously armed and angry. The receptionist sees him walk past and calls to him, he ignores. He walks into a large office cubicle area and as the camera pans away, you hear "POP- POP- POP". The workers are all shown dumbfounded and in shock. The narrator then basicly instructs the viewer to crawl into a room, under a desk, call 911, turn off the cell and lights and wait to die.

I was so pissed off by the gull of this video teaching my coworkers to be victims that I sent an email to my boss! In it, I spelled out how that same scenerio would have played out if our company policy didn't require us to be victims. I was factual and professional but refused to let my company off the hook on this one.

He never replied to my email and the last time I saw him, his one line response was, "what do you want me to do with that email"? I told him to make it so I can be armed with more than a prayer and a cell phone should something like this happen at our office. He only smirked and said, "ain't gonna happen". :mad:

I'm currently waiting for my S&W J frame to arrive and seriously considering carry at work. The thought of either situation is alarming. Would suck to be found out, but would suck much more to find myself under a desk waiting to die!

It's so frustating trying to educate the public on this subject after their brains have been turned to Jello by the media. Like the saying goes, "you can't fix stupid, stupid is forever".-Ron White

Wow we have not had to watch anything like that. I had to dig through our company workbook to find there stance on firearms. So I'm guessing most non carrying/gun people didn't read it.

"Surviving an active shooter in the work place" no problem boss I already have that plan covered!
1. Have a firearm readily available - Check
2. Have training on how to deploy and used said firearm - Check
3. Practice, Practice, Practice - Check
 
Just quick update. Nothing more has been said or brought up. Friday I carried my P3AT on my ankle and made a point of adjusting my pants/belt in the presence of that person. As I did it I noticed she instantly glanced down to were she thought she saw my other firearm! haha not there. So I don't think any more is going to be said about it. I really just wanted to post as more of a, don't get to complacent cause people do notice, then anything. Also I've got my manager into shooting recently, after his car was broken into, and just a few weeks ago came over say he'd just picked up a new Glock. So if it was mentioned to him I don't think it go much farther then that.

If anything changes I'll keep you all posted!
 
Let's look at the entire situation with this mindset. The Corporates don't care about you. You are an employee that makes them money and accomplishes what they need, and nothing more. If you get shot, they would rather fight a lawsuit by your widow or family, than they would for an accidental shooting or you shooting someone else, even in self defense. They figure your widow or family will be a much easier target to eliminate in a courtroom. And if you are carrying a gun, you are a liability and an accident waiting to happen. They generally know nothing about guns, and don't want to. They do know about liability, accident probablity and damages. You are too dumb to be safe with a gun and you might effect their bottom line and profit margin. THAT is what they are concerned with. Your personal safety is expendable.

So here's the solution. You carry it, low -profile. You keep it hidden. You keep your mouth shut. You do not discuss guns unless it's with a close trusted friend at work. You still do not reveal that you carry. You keep a concealed, smaller pistol with you, and a bigger pistol in a hidden compartment in your briefcase. You do not discuss firearms policies or ask your boss a question about the firearms policies. You play stupid. You watch those "employee lay down and die peacefully with a cell phone, hiding under your desk" videos, and then think for yourself. If someone goes postal, you protect yourself. If you can save others, do so. You can always argue the point in court after his funeral. You do not know who the psyco maybe in 3 or 4 years. The guy you discussed guns with or confided in, may be the disgrunted employee 4 years from now after his wife leaves him with the kids, he loses his house and loses his job. You don't want him to know that you are the one guy who is armed in the office. If you shoot in self defense or defense of others, or if you simply get discovered, they may fire you. There are other jobs. It's better than having your job and dying at your desk, following company rules. I don't know any other way to explain it
.
 
Let's look at the entire situation with this mindset. The Corporates don't care about you. You are an employee that makes them money and accomplishes what they need, and nothing more. If you get shot, they would rather fight a lawsuit by your widow or family, than they would for an accidental shooting or you shooting someone else, even in self defense. They figure your widow or family will be a much easier target to eliminate in a courtroom. And if you are carrying a gun, you are a liability and an accident waiting to happen. They generally know nothing about guns, and don't want to. They do know about liability, accident probablity and damages. You are too dumb to be safe with a gun and you might effect their bottom line and profit margin. THAT is what they are concerned with. Your personal safety is expendable.

So here's the solution. You carry it, low -profile. You keep it hidden. You keep your mouth shut. You do not discuss guns unless it's with a close trusted friend at work. You still do not reveal that you carry. You keep a concealed, smaller pistol with you, and a bigger pistol in a hidden compartment in your briefcase. You do not discuss firearms policies or ask your boss a question about the firearms policies. You play stupid. You watch those "employee lay down and die peacefully with a cell phone, hiding under your desk" videos, and then think for yourself. If someone goes postal, you protect yourself. If you can save others, do so. You can always argue the point in court after his funeral. You do not know who the psyco maybe in 3 or 4 years. The guy you discussed guns with or confided in, may be the disgrunted employee 4 years from now after his wife leaves him with the kids, he loses his house and loses his job. You don't want him to know that you are the one guy who is armed in the office. If you shoot in self defense or defense of others, or if you simply get discovered, they may fire you. There are other jobs. It's better than having your job and dying at your desk, following company rules. I don't know any other way to explain it
.

BRAVO.......Well said!

I just need to get past trying to change the world view of things and cover my own six.

Next issue. I spend a great deal of time driving a company vehicle (again falls under the no guns on company property clause). If I'm carrying legally and am in an accident/injured and the hospital, EMT or LEO discover my LEGALLY carried wepon, do they disclose this to the company since they own the vehicle?
 
BRAVO.......Well said!

I just need to get past trying to change the world view of things and cover my own six.

Next issue. I spend a great deal of time driving a company vehicle (again falls under the no guns on company property clause). If I'm carrying legally and am in an accident/injured and the hospital, EMT or LEO discover my LEGALLY carried wepon, do they disclose this to the company since they own the vehicle?


I doubt any leo or emt would have reason to disclose that paticular detail about the situation...after all you aren't breaking the law if you have a permit. I think they would just stick to the facts in their report, I don't see how they would work in the statement" Vehicle was traveling southbound and struck another vehicle making an illegal turn...oh and he was carring a permitted firearm?? Doesn't sound too likely to me but then again ya never know....
 
BRAVO.......Well said!

I just need to get past trying to change the world view of things and cover my own six.

Next issue. I spend a great deal of time driving a company vehicle (again falls under the no guns on company property clause). If I'm carrying legally and am in an accident/injured and the hospital, EMT or LEO discover my LEGALLY carried wepon, do they disclose this to the company since they own the vehicle?

As a retired LEO I'll say this. In some cases it may be revealed, but not as a call to your employer about a gun. Usually they will hold the gun until you can be contacted and the gun returned to you or your family. OR, the LEO may note in the narrative of the Accident Report, that he recovered a firearm, serial number such and such, and that it was taken in for safe keeping, and that there was a CCW permit in your wallet when they checked for ID. That could eventually be read by the employer when investigating the accident or insurance claims when they obtain a copy of the report. NOW, understand this.... The chances of you getting in an accident are low, the chances of you being unconcious and unable to speak to the LEO on the scene are even lower. If you are concious and can move, take the gun and holster and put it in your briefcase. No one will know. If you are injured and concious, but have to go for medical treatment take your briefcase with you. The hospital will turn it over to the family member who shows up at the hospital. But if you are unconcious and the vehicle has to be towed, the tow company or Police Officer will inventory the vehicle and most likely take the firearm for safe keeping or turn it over to a responsible party that shows up at the accident scene, such as your wife or boss. As I said, do what you can. If you get caught, you MAY be fired. There are other jobs. OR, go unarmed. Your choice.
 
Friday I carried my P3AT on my ankle and made a point of adjusting my pants/belt in the presence of that person. As I did it I noticed she instantly glanced down to were she thought she saw my other firearm!

I think if you are going to carry you are making the wise move switching the P-380 at ankle (or I use the pocketholster.com convertible in my front pocket because it makes the gun totally invisible ... always prints WALLET, even if your hand is on the gun).

The slightly slower access and slightly less stopping power is a good change off for the clandestine requirement ... remember concealed IS concealed ... period. NO ONE should ever know you have a gun unless they are being hit by the bullet.

I do understand the consequences if I were ever "found out"...
...I also have an obligation to provide income for my family.

That's the point! If you are going to carry "unauthorized" at work YOU MUST understand the consequences of getting caught and YOU must decide if you should discuss this with your spouse or not. Coming home and saying "Honey, I got fired today for carrying a gun", if she does not know you carry at work could be a major problem and in reality your odds of being found out and fired are far, far, far greater than of needing that gun at work.

That is not to say that I ever feel protection is not required, it is just make sure the players all know the game plan.

I doubt any leo or emt would have reason to disclose that paticular detail about the situation...

Police reports are usually written to give as much information as possible for future reference by the attorneys, etc. If the officer knows you are carrying a weapon, it very well may wind up in his report in case later on your valid permit turns up to be a fake for example, or other problems occur.

It is just like if you get a speeding ticket where you are going 80 but he "writes you for 64 in a 55 zone" (I am assuming you know how to not piss off cops) look for that little "80" somewhere in the margin. He knows what it means as does everyone else who handles the ticket, if you become a habitual speeder they want to know.
 
Coming home and saying "Honey, I got fired today for carrying a gun", if she does not know you carry at work could be a major problem

My wife got her permit along with me in April. We are debating now the risks involved with carry vs. no carry at my work. She is a CFO at her company and they have no policy against firearms. Her boss and his wife are close friends of ours. He knows we took the class but she hasn't discussed nor has she been asked about her carry status. I would not carry until we have reached an agreement on the subject.

This has been weighing heavilly on me. I'm leaning toward not carrying at work, only because every moment I'd be carring the gun along with the guilt of the policy violation. It comes down to a personal choice and a weighing of risks I guess. Jury is still out........
 
At least you ducks are lined up ... that is most important no matter what you decide.

For the record, I do not carry "at work" most of the time and I work for myself. My problem is that a lot of my work is in the political field and involves being in offices that are located within courthouses, police stations or "areas where governmental boards meet", all of which are illegal to carry in Florida. In many areas even LEO's cannot carry unless they are on duty and assigned there. Of course as we all know this hardly makes any of these areas any "safer" and many times makes them much more dangerous. But when it is the law, we tend to follow it more than if it is just a "policy".

It makes it hard for me to reccommend that someone simply ignore a "policy" when I follow the "official policy" of the government and don't carry where unauthorized. I don't want to sound too hypocritical.

Of course, those stupid metal detectors don't help in a whole lot in the chances of not getting caught either. :no:
 
Working for The Man

This has been weighing heavilly on me. I'm leaning toward not carrying at work, only because every moment I'd be carring the gun along with the guilt of the policy violation. It comes down to a personal choice and a weighing of risks I guess. Jury is still out........[/QUOTE]

It appears that you and I are employed by the same company. I've got over 20 years with them. I am also a former LEO. I watched the video recently and much of it goes against everything I have ever been taught. Sitting under your desk and waiting for the BG to go away was essentially what got so many innocent kids hurt or killed at Virginia Tech.

My company car and laptop is my office. My office takes me into neighborhoods where a lot of the houses are boarded up and groups of men stand around the corner and drink from a brown paper bag at 10 a.m. in the morning. I stand out like a sore thumb, if you catch my drift. I have made the personal decision that I can always find another job if SHTF. But my family needs me to remain healthy and alive and bring home the bacon. if something happens to me the company will talk about what a great guy I was, then they'll find someone else to do my job tomorrow. Someone mentioned integrity earlier and I think integrity is great. I also believe that if someone wants to blow my brains out for my car, my wallet and the equipment in my car, I need to have the integrity to tell him no, and stand ready to give him five good reasons why it's not happening today.
 
It appears that you and I are employed by the same company.

Good to know someone in the ranks is "like thinking". At times it seems the whole company and all employees are blind to the risks around them.

I to have a rolling office that takes me into harms way daily. A co-worker was assaulted with a knife recently while working in a rough area.

Stinks to have to consider risking my job to protect my life.........
 
A few that I like and alternate between are:



  • I'll second the Smartcarry or Lightningwear holster and the Cell Pal - though not with any cell phone holder that Cell Pal sells. Link Removed makes a great line of phone holders that have the same "hook" at the end of the belt clip that the Cell Pal needs to work.

    But either holster will allow you to crawl around under things without ever having to worry about laying on the gun or gun retention issues.
 

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