I sat outside like a bum.

[The_Outlaw]

I just needed to vent. :nhl_checking:

I went with the wife and kid to the local library yesterday afternoon. It was a clear & sunny but windy day. :kiss3:

As we approached the 'Public' Library I saw emboldened in very large white print a 30.06 sign! WTF?!? :stop:

I was quite perturbed to say the least. My wife said, "Just put your gun in the car." I replied in an annoyed tone, "No, I don't feel like disarming for these idiots. I thought that this was supposed to be a PUBLIC Library! I guess Law Abiding CHL carriers like myself are not considered to be part of the PUBLIC!" :nono:

I then told my wife and son to just go on in without me and I would wait for them outside. As I waited outside 'Like some sort of a Bum', I was able to seriously ponder my unfortunate situation for the 45 minutes that my family where inside the Library. :drag:

I watched as numerous other people happily came and went from the Library. I thought to myself, "Look at all of these happy sheeple coming and going freely as I am basically left outside of their Library feeling both ignored and unwelcome". :sad:

The people where of many mixed ethnic groups (Caucasians, Asians, Hispanics, African Americans, Indians, Middle Easterners, etc...) I began to think to myself; "I wonder how many of these people are not even Natural Born Citizens of this Country. It doesn't seem very fair to me as a Natural Born Citizen to be PROHIBITED from entering this so called PUBLIC Library." :cray:

I guess that I won't be going back to the local library anytime soon if I can help it. :angry:

 

[rrman12280]

I understand your frustration.

 

[sgtbill]

I think that I would have to send the people in charge of the Library a letter with the following included in said letter.
I would want to know if ANY PUBLIC funding was in fact used or given to the library from the town TAX BASE and if it was I would inform the people in charge of the LIBRARY that I would attend each and every town meeting, supervisors meeting etc. untill one of two thing's happend the ability for all that had a LEGAL RIGHT to carry had their right to carry in the PUBLIC LIBRARY reinstated or the Public Funds were in fact cut off from this establishment.
Bill

 

[KCD1974]

There is always Barnes and Noble lol....I thought everyone is TX had a gun? The more I read about TX carry laws, the less I think of TX, I thought your state was one of the last "old west" states and pretty much allowed carry anywhere. Heck MN, a completely liberal state, has better carry laws.

At least here when you see the sign, you could enter, but risk being asked to leave, then you only get in trouble ($25.00 petty misd.) if you REFUSE to leave, which would of course be very, very dumb.

 

[The_Outlaw]

I think that I would have to send the people in charge of the Library a letter with the following included in said letter.
I would want to know if ANY PUBLIC funding was in fact used or given to the library from the town TAX BASE and if it was I would inform the people in charge of the LIBRARY that I would attend each and every town meeting, supervisors meeting etc. untill one of two thing's happend the ability for all that had a LEGAL RIGHT to carry had their right to carry in the PUBLIC LIBRARY reinstated or the Public Funds were in fact cut off from this establishment.
Bill

Good idea SgtBill, but unfortunately I'm just too damn tired and I also lack the motivation to even deal with all of the time and effort it would take me to attend all of those meetings.
It's just easier for me to stop going to the damn Library alltogether whenever I can avoid it.
This is how 'they' (The Fascist LibTarded Progressives) win the chess game. They will continue to wear us down until we are too tired, too old or just plain dead.
I Give Up.

 

[B2Tall]

My state of Florida squashed many such restrictions late last year, and any local official who tries to enforce the now-former restrictions will feel the wrath of our governor. A few places are still restricted (courtrooms, schools) but most of the 30.06 signs on state and local properties had to come down.

 

[JD Beam]

Hmmm I thought the law was changed so that public state government buildings (except court houses) could no longer put up a 30.06 sign... I may have to look into that again.

Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;
(2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress;
(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;
(4) on the premises of a racetrack;
(5) in or into a secured area of an airport; or
(6) within 1,000 feet of premises the location of which is designated by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice as a place of execution under Article 43.19, Code of Criminal Procedure, on a day that a sentence of death is set to be imposed on the designated premises and the person received notice that:
(A) going within 1,000 feet of the premises with a weapon listed under this subsection was prohibited; or
(B) possessing a weapon listed under this subsection within 1,000 feet of the premises was prohibited.

--
Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.


(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

--

Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or

(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

--

OK so if I am reading this right if the library is city/county/state owned and operated and there is no courthouse or school in it then the 30.06 sign is technically illegal... If its a federal or privately owned library then its a legal 30.06 sign...

Oh and I am not liable for my legal advice ha.

JD

 

[NavyLCDR]

The_Outlaw...

Know your state laws and carry past the sign. The sign didn't mean anything and wasn't worth the paper or plastic it was printed on.

PENAL CODE**CHAPTER 30. BURGLARY AND CRIMINAL TRESPASS

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

PUBLIC libraries are not listed as prohibited in section 46.03 or 46.035.

Respectfully, you waived your own rights to the government because they posted a meaningless sign in order to take advantage of the citizens who do not understand their rights under the law. Did your CCW instructor explain to you that a 30.06 sign posted on a public (government) building other than a specifically prohibited place was meaningless? Probably not.

The library will tell you that there is no law against them posting a 30.06 sign, and they would probably be correct (unless there is a coercion statute in Texas). But that doesn't mean that the sign actually prohibits anything.

 

[The_Outlaw]

The_Outlaw...

Know your state laws and carry past the sign. The sign didn't mean anything and wasn't worth the paper or plastic it was printed on.

PENAL CODE**CHAPTER 30. BURGLARY AND CRIMINAL TRESPASS



PUBLIC libraries are not listed as prohibited in section 46.03 or 46.035.

Respectfully, you waived your own rights to the government because they posted a meaningless sign in order to take advantage of the citizens who do not understand their rights under the law.

This particular Library (The Frisco Library) is in the exact 'same building' as both the Post Office AND Frisco City Hall. Maybe that's why they can get away with this crap. The friggin Fascists. >:-(

It's a shame too because it's a very nice and very large Library.

 

[NavyLCDR]

This particular Library (The Frisco Library) is in the 'same building' as both the Post Office AND Frisco City Hall. Maybe that's why they can get away with this crap. The friggin Fascists. >:-(

The Post Office prohibition only applies to that portion of the building under the actual control of the post office. For example, a post office convenience counter in a conveience store or grocery store, only the portion behind the counter would be prohibited, because the rest of the store is not under the control of the post office. That is in the Code of Federal Regulations.

City hall would only fall under 46.035:
"(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity"

My personal take and action would be that concealed is concealed, and in the portion of the building under the control of the library administration, the 30.06 sign is meaningless.

Was the sign posted at an entrance that would be used to access city hall during a meeting of a government entity or the Post Office? If that is the case, then the sign would probably apply to those areas, once you actually entered those areas, but not to anywhere else in the building.

You do have every reason to be annoyed by the sign, because it clearly does not apply to the library, and the government is trying to take advantage of people's lack of knowledge and action should be taken to remove the sign. However, feeling obligated to obey the sign is entirely up to you. I don't see where you would be in legal jeopardy by carrying past the sign. I've openly carried past plenty of illegal signs in public parks here in Washington.

If Texas has a coercion statute, the library may be in criminal violation for attempting to restrict the publics' rights using threat of arrest.

 

[BC1]

I understand your frustration. But don't ever regard yourself as the sheepdog. Many of us don't want you to decide when it's time to defend us. Defend yourself. Leave my family out of your plans.

Is a library in TX considered a school? In some states libraries are administered by the department of education.

 

[B2Tall]

This particular Library (The Frisco Library) is in the exact 'same building' as both the Post Office AND Frisco City Hall.

We're even allowed to carry in city halls although council meetings are still off-limits. I was in Coral Gables city hall last week on business. Although I knew it was now legal for me to carry there, I still checked the front door for a sign. Nope. Nada. Zilch. There were signs prohibiting animals, solicitations, food & drink, but no signs concerning firearms.


The biggest blow to the anti-gun lobby in Florida was when the governor and state legislature made it illegal for any county or local body to contradict state laws concerning firearms. Tallahassee took charge in a very positive way and a lot of local liberal political types soiled their underwear when they learned what the penalties would be for such rogue behavior. Even though I'm stuck in Liberalville where I'm at, there's not a damn thing they can do about it.

 

[The_Outlaw]

I understand your frustration. But don't ever regard yourself as the sheepdog. Many of us don't want you to decide when it's time to defend us. Defend yourself. Leave my family out of your plans.
Is a library in TX considered a school? In some states libraries are administered by the department of education.

Point taken.
However, I have never had any 'plans' for your family nor anyone elses family.
I also don't ever plan on visiting your neighborhood in the Fascist LibTarded City of New York anytime soon, so no need to worry about little old me. You can come down off of your very high and mighty horse now Mr. Elitist New York Dude.
I see that your current carry sidearm/s are Glock 26 & Glock 27.
It seems that we have at least one thing in common, the Glock 27.
Good choice.
~Cheers~

 

[Warbirds]

How much more effort would it have taken to write to the library compared to what you have written here?

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk

 

[The_Outlaw]

How much more effort would it have taken to write to the library compared to what you have written here?

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk

I have allready written to them. But thanks for asking.

~Sent from my personal desktop computer~

 

[walt629]

@ The_Outlaw. Looks like you got some good advise on the standing law in Texas, now I suggest you ask a lawyer is a Library is considered an "educational institution" before you shush off the posted sign. I've read in these fine threads where one of us that thought they had everything sewed up got stung by a technical definition of a legal term.

Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,

Either way it goes, you've stumbled onto one of the key arguments the Open Carry guys have against Concealed Carry. We CCer's have a dilemma. Do we use the stealth that CC affords us and violate a possible law excluding us from entry onto the premisses or do we (to coin a phrase) "sit outside like a bum"?

Good thing it wasn't raining! leasantry:

 

[santa]

Many librarys have funding that needs to be voted on by the general public. IF this is the case where you live perhaps a reminder of this upcomming vote to the management would be in order.

 

[BC1]

Point taken.
However, I have never had any 'plans' for your family nor anyone elses family.
I also don't ever plan on visiting your neighborhood in the Fascist LibTarded City of New York anytime soon, so no need to worry about little old me. You can come down off of your very high and mighty horse now Mr. Elitist New York Dude.
I see that your current carry sidearm/s are Glock 26 & Glock 27.
It seems that we have at least one thing in common, the Glock 27.
Good choice.
~Cheers~

Well, a sheepdog protects the sheep. Some of us don't want that as we'll take care of ourselves.

Have to agree about NYC. I don't live there thoguh and it's laws don't affect the rest of the state. It's a pretty funny response considering NYS has many more CCW permits and a larger percentage of the population with a CCW permit than TX. Also considering limitation in your state such as renewal or restrictions on locations like a bar you might rethink that statement. Most people make the same mistake in assessing a state. People must resist the urge to classify an entire state based on one city's actions.

 

[NavyLCDR]

@ The_Outlaw. Looks like you got some good advise on the standing law in Texas, now I suggest you ask a lawyer is a Library is considered an "educational institution" before you shush off the posted sign. I've read in these fine threads where one of us that thought they had everything sewed up got stung by a technical definition of a legal term.

The Frisco Library is a public library founded by the City of Frisco. I don't see anything in the following document that would suggest the library has anything to do with any Department of Education. Of course, running it by a lawyer is hardly ever a bad idea.

http://www.friscolibrary.com/sites/default/files/Policy_web.pdf

Unless I missed it in the document, I don't see a prohibition on the lawful carrying of concealed firearms mentioned in the document.

 

[Rich_S]

I just needed to vent. :nhl_checking:

I went with the wife and kid to the local library yesterday afternoon. It was a clear & sunny but windy day. :kiss3:

As we approached the 'Public' Library I saw emboldened in very large white print a 30.06 sign! WTF?!? :stop:

I was quite perturbed to say the least. My wife said, "Just put your gun in the car." I replied in an annoyed tone, "No, I don't feel like disarming for these idiots. I thought that this was supposed to be a PUBLIC Library! I guess Law Abiding CHL carriers like myself are not considered to be part of the PUBLIC!" :nono:

I then told my wife and son to just go on in without me and I would wait for them outside. As I waited outside 'Like some sort of a Bum', I was able to seriously ponder my unfortunate situation for the 45 minutes that my family where inside the Library. :drag:

I watched as numerous other people happily came and went from the Library. I thought to myself, "Look at all of these happy sheeple coming and going freely as I am basically left outside of their Library feeling both ignored and unwelcome". :sad:

The people where of many mixed ethnic groups (Caucasians, Asians, Hispanics, African Americans, Indians, Middle Easterners, etc...) I began to think to myself; "I wonder how many of these people are not even Natural Born Citizens of this Country. It doesn't seem very fair to me as a Natural Born Citizen to be PROHIBITED from entering this so called PUBLIC Library." :cray:

I guess that I won't be going back to the local library anytime soon if I can help it. :angry:

Luckily in Mass those signs don't have the force of law so if they discover my concealed gun all they can do is ask me to leave. Those signs are more like a suggestion here.