I carry a 22 mag, do I need to turn my "man card" in ?

O

oklahomamoses

New member
I'm a retired Teamster and dock worker, I've worn overalls since I was 14 years old. That's what you will find me in when I'm working at the pawn shop, slacks, button down shirt and tie when I'm two doors down officiating weddings at the marriage chapel. The overalls are just perfect for carrying the NAA 22 mag in the side ruler pocket, any thing else would have to be carried in the hip pocket and is not comfortable when you sit. I have a 1990 Sig P-220/45acp, an od green Glock 36, and a Sig P-226. At least once a day someone will ask why I don't open carry like the other employees, I tell them I prefer concealed while working and you can guess the next question ? What could you possibly have hidden wearing those overalls ? When I produce the diminutive NAA 22 mag then the gun caliber rhetoric and talking points begin and a crowd soon gathers with opinions on the 22 LR or mag as carry ! I feel so emasculated at times,:haha: LOL, your thoughts ?
 
First rule of gun fighting is to have a gun. The gun in your pocket, is a whole lot better than any gun in your desk, in the car, in the safe, in the.....

I can think of better choices, but, the first rule is.....
 
While it would be a gross error to say that ballistic profiles are meaningless, the #1 data point in a defensive shootings' after-action evaluation is shot-placement. As such, if I'm picturing the weapon you're talking about correctly (and I'm pretty sure I am), I'd be more concerned with the uber-short barrel. Exceedingly short-barreled guns, almost no matter the caliber, have been referred to in circles I've hung around with for years as "stomach pumps" because of how close you have to be to the target to ensure you'll actually hit it if/when needed. If I have to draw my weapon, my simultaneous action is going to be to create distance between myself and the threat if at all possible. A tiny gun like that would force you to be close enough to the threat to smell his bad breath it would seem to me, so I'd advise to another option on that score alone, having nothing to do with whether or not the caliber is under-powered. Although, along the same lines, ballistics of any sized round are greatly diminished the shorter the barrel is, so if there's any question about a .22 mag being under-powered to begin with, you're increasing the validity of that argument as you decrease the muzzle velocity with each succeeding inch you shave off the barrel from whatever length would realize the round's optimal performance potential. Of course, no handgun is going to realize *optimal* performance potential from a .22 mag, but if you're going to compromise some in that regard, is it smart to compromise all but about one inch's worth of barrel length and remove all but the bare bones ballistic potential from the round? Wouldn't be my choice, but to each his own. I've got nothing negative to say about .22 mag or the people who choose to carry a weapon chambered in that round. Best of luck to you.

Blues
 
I don't care about the "man card" issue. A handgun is not about testosterone, but about ballistic performance, shootability, and practicability. A mini revolver falls short in all three categories.

Ballistic Performance: Handguns have already poor "stopping power", but a short-barreled 22 Magnum mini revolver is pretty much just like an ice pick. It makes 22-33 caliber holes. A HP round may or may not expand with the low velocity from a short barrel, depending on your ammo choice. There won't be any significant secondary damage due to the low energy from a short barrel. See 22 WMR Denim and Gel Tests from the NAA Wasp Mini Revolver and North American Arms (NAA) mini-revolver ammo test: Gold Dot 22WMR Black Widow.

Shootability: A small firearm like this is very difficult to shoot accurately, especially under stress. You only have 5 shots. How many of those will be actually center-mass body hits at typical self defense distances? Can you actually hit the head of an attacker at typical self defense distances? What if the attacker is not stationary? You should be moving too in any case as a motionless operator ventilates easily (M.O.V.E.). I imagine that there will be mostly misses in a dynamic self defense scenario.

Practicability: A small firearm like this is also very difficult to handle in general under stress. The small grip is not easy to grab. The gun needs to be removed from a pocket and not from a holster. The hammer needs to be cocked (and once it is cocked the gun is hot). Have you ever practiced fast drawing this revolver while someone else was watching you? Are you lasering your leg with it? Can you shoot it one-handed and hit your target? If you shoot with a support hand, are you running the risk of placing your support hand partially in front of the barrel?

A handgun shouldn't be comfortable, it should be comforting. Choose the right tool for the job. You can easily pocket carry a Glock 43 or 42 in a pocket holster and a spare magazine. I personally carry a Glock 26 in a pocket holster and a spare magazine in my ski pant pockets while skiing. For those that argue:

Hatchetman said:
If anyone gives you grief about it, ask them if it is ok to shoot them with it.....
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my response is simple. I guess it is OK for me to carry a hammer, because you wouldn't want to be hit over your head with it. Just because a tool is lethal doesn't mean it is the right self defense tool. Self defense is about stopping a threat. A 12+1 round 9mm subcompact handgun is simply better at this job than a 5-round 22 WMR mini revolver. I posted a similar statement before: If I ever need to defend myself in a gunfight, I seriously hope my attacker carries a 22-caliber mini revolver.

On exactly that subject:

James Yeager | Stupid Internet Gun Stuff - The Best Gun to have in a Gunfight
 
oklahomamoses said:
I'm a retired Teamster and dock worker, I've worn overalls since I was 14 years old. That's what you will find me in when I'm working at the pawn shop, slacks, button down shirt and tie when I'm two doors down officiating weddings at the marriage chapel. The overalls are just perfect for carrying the NAA 22 mag in the side ruler pocket, any thing else would have to be carried in the hip pocket and is not comfortable when you sit. I have a 1990 Sig P-220/45acp, an od green Glock 36, and a Sig P-226. At least once a day someone will ask why I don't open carry like the other employees, I tell them I prefer concealed while working and you can guess the next question ? What could you possibly have hidden wearing those overalls ? When I produce the diminutive NAA 22 mag then the gun caliber rhetoric and talking points begin and a crowd soon gathers with opinions on the 22 LR or mag as carry ! I feel so emasculated at times,:haha: LOL, your thoughts ?
Click to expand...
.22mag is better than nothing.
 
i have a friend who carries one of the naa 22 mag's. I rented one to try and they're pretty cool but I didn't buy one.

My friend agrees with Blues that they're for close range - like shooting at the face from a few feet away. As far as close up goes, they're definitely
easier to manuever with.

Other than that, turn in the man card dude ! :triniti: :moil: :crazy_pilot:
 
I sometimes carry a .22mag for a primary. A Kel Tec PMR30. 31 rounds of .22mag should do the job.
 
oklahomamoses said:
Interesting to say the least, my stomach pump routinely produces 8-10 inch groups at 21 feet.
Click to expand...

Are you saying that's a good thing? To me, 8-10 inches away from point of aim is a miss, but hey, if it floats your boat, have at it.

Bikenut said:
I sometimes carry a .22mag for a primary. A Kel Tec PMR30. 31 rounds of .22mag should do the job.
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I wholeheartedly agree. I want one of those so bad I can taste it, and it's precisely what I had in mind when I said that .22 mag isn't necessarily a deficiency, but the uber-short barrel might well be. I've shot a PMR30 and love it. One of these days....
 
A Glock 42 is too large for me as a pocket pistol, and a 43 is even larger. You might find them ok, preferences vary. About the biggest thing I'd carry as a pocket gun is a Taurus TCP. Very reliable gun, and a bit less expensive than a Glock.

I spend a lot of my time in the woods (hundreds of hours), and for the 6 months covering summer the game lands I frequent while fishing only permits .22 LR pistol, open carry only. Even with a concealed carry permit, the only thing you can carry outside of hunting season in these 10,000+ acres is a .22 pistol (.22 mag not allowed), open carry only, so I have become comfortable carrying as .22 as a self defense gun.

Off the game lands I pocket carry a Taurus TCP, or open carry a Luger P-08 or a SCCY CPX2, but I'd be ok with a pocket .22. YMMV
 
TrapperBob said:
A Glock 42 is too large for me as a pocket pistol, and a 43 is even larger. You might find them ok, preferences vary. About the biggest thing I'd carry as a pocket gun is a Taurus TCP. Very reliable gun, and a bit less expensive than a Glock.

I spend a lot of my time in the woods (hundreds of hours), and for the 6 months covering summer the game lands I frequent while fishing only permits .22 LR pistol, open carry only. Even with a concealed carry permit, the only thing you can carry outside of hunting season in these 10,000+ acres is a .22 pistol (.22 mag not allowed), open carry only, so I have become comfortable carrying as .22 as a self defense gun.

Off the game lands I pocket carry a Taurus TCP, or open carry a Luger P-08 or a SCCY CPX2, but I'd be ok with a pocket .22. YMMV
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Some pockets may be very well big enough for a Glock 42, 43, or even 26, just as my cargo pant pockets and ski pant pockets are big enough for a Glock 26. Dress for success.

I do have a Taurus TCP 738 .380 ACP mouse gun. I really liked it when I bought it and carried it. I stopped carrying it for a number of reasons. I did take it to the range a few weeks ago and experienced a number of failure to eject malfunctions, every 2-3 fired rounds! This appears to be a combination of ammunition and gun. My Hornady XTP self defense ammo and my Monarch training ammo cycles fine, for now, but my Remington UMC training ammo apparently doesn't. I have about 2500 rounds through that gun. I don't recommend it for a number of reasons.
 
oklahomamoses said:
Interesting to say the least, my stomach pump routinely produces 8-10 inch groups at 21 feet.
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At a stationary target I assume? An 8-10 inch group a stationary target has already quite number of misses. If I get shot at from a 21 feet distance, I would be moving sideways and shooting back. What's your group then? Every bullet that misses has a lawyer behind it. You are responsible for any innocent person you shoot and injure or kill.

Also, I would be searching for cover and eventually shooting from behind such cover. The target area of someone shooting from behind cover is significantly smaller, i.e., just the head. You may not be able to land a single hit.

Most people also underestimate the stress, tunnel vision and situational factors. Shooting performance in a self defense situation at a store or in a parking lot is different than the slow-shooting performance at a range with a firing line. Can you shoot 2 to the chest and one in the head in under 2 or even under 3 seconds without a single miss, at a moving target while you are moving as well?

I assume you have never participated in a defensive handgun training class? In such a class, you very quickly learn what works for you and what doesn't.
 
Always heard "a 22 in the eye is better that a 45 flying by". Need to study results of police reports, autopsy reports, and public records of shootings. Might just change a few opinions out there.
 
Rliles said:
Always heard "a 22 in the eye is better that a 45 flying by". Need to study results of police reports, autopsy reports, and public records of shootings. Might just change a few opinions out there.
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Without assuming which side of the .22 good/.22 not good argument you might personally come down on, perhaps if you're familiar with studies comparing shootings of various calibers and their outcomes, you should post it up if you're interested in changing minds. I'd certainly be interested in such studies.

Blues
 
BluesStringer said:
Without assuming which side of the .22 good/.22 not good argument you might personally come down on, perhaps if you're familiar with studies comparing shootings of various calibers and their outcomes, you should post it up if you're interested in changing minds. I'd certainly be interested in such studies.

Blues
Click to expand...
This is one of the reports that I have seen:

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Buckeye Firearms Association


Not really looking to change anyone's opinion. I myself carry a 40 cal in cold weather and a 380 in warmer weather. I have a 22 that I use for most of my practice. I feel a person should carry what they are comfortable with. I do feel secure with carrying any pistol I have. I believe bullet placement is the most important thing to be concerned with. I have seen other reports similar to this one. If I can find them I will post them too. Have a great day!
 
"Better than nothing" and "ask them if they'll let you shoot them with it" are among the poorest reasons to justify a caliber.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
If someone starts shooting at you...you don't respond with..."Hey...what is that a 22"...then just stand there and laugh...when most people are being shot at...they will retreat...
 
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