Hypothetical Question


armed traveler

New member
I'm a retired male of small stature. My question is...at what point in a confrontation in a public parking lot, place, etc. could I legally pull my concealed weapon to defend myself if/when confronted by a male individual half my age, twice my size, with a out of control temper, but no visible weapon in his hand? Assuming I have already retreated to the point of "no where else to go".
 

In most states it's when you "feel" in fear of life or limb. But you should know the laws your in. When you have no other out and you're in fear of bodily harm or death, even if you fear bodily harm or death of someone you're with or a bystander it's usually justified. But if there is the slightest "out" for you or the other you best take it cause if you don't and you go to the "next" level. The law will hang you. And given today's jury gene pool it might not work out.
 
when to pull out your weapon

I'm a retired male of small stature. My question is...at what point in a confrontation in a public parking lot, place, etc. could I legally pull my concealed weapon to defend myself if/when confronted by a male individual half my age, twice my size, with a out of control temper, but no visible weapon in his hand? Assuming I have already retreated to the point of "no where else to go".

As for LEGAL, I'd say check the self-defense laws in your state/jurisdiction. Most self-defense law looks for use of force that is proportional to the threat.

Common sense would be to pull out your gun when you feel there is an imminent threat of great bodily harm or death. I think that the fact that the person is twice your size and half your age would be considered a "weapon" if he chose to attack you.

Safe travels to you!
 
Here is TEXAS law, not necessarily your state

PC §9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A
person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other
under Section 9.31; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use
of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated
kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery,
or aggravated robbery.

And there are a lot of other factors in this law that must be understood, but this is part of it ...
 
+1 to OldOwl cause if BG is within 20 ft, I consider he is in my face and requires immediate response.
 
You raised a very good question. It would be a compelling challenge even for an experienced Attorney to know the gun laws of every state! But I feel that if you would be justified to use deadly force you felt there was an eminent threat to either you or someone in your company, and you had absolutely no chance of evading the confrontation. Sometimes the simple act of exposing your weapon will make the BG retreat.
 
"Sometimes the simple act of exposing your weapon will make the BG retreat. "

I would never start an arguement here, and the variables are infinite, but I made up my mind a long time ago that if I show the weapon, I will use it. So I look to not getting to that level. If a perpetrator is coming toward me, I will assume a defensive posture, put up my left hand as if one is saying to stop, put my right hand hovering over my firearm and in a loud and direct voice say, "DO NOT APPROACH!" If they keep on coming - so be it.
 
Since I started CC 5 years ago I have felt under threat twice. I can say, it is very stressful and traumatic and if I didn't have years of martial art training which teaches you to stay calm and focused and cause the opponent to lose their cool, I might have made the wrong decisions. Both times, once I thought the other guy was drawing a pistol when I caught him starting a fire, and another when I was cornered and thought the out of control irrational guy was coming for me and then brushed right past, I turned my gun side away from them, cleared the holster and put my hand on the guns handle. Neither of them were ever aware that I was half a second from drawing my gun. In both cases, once the adrenalin rush was gone I decided that I had waited too long, and in both cases could easily have become a victim. But in reality, nobody was hurt.

I don't know about most people, but I know that the idea of killing somebody stresses my mind terribly. The second time I mentioned above, a distraught customer at a car impound lot which adjoined one of my clients yards was heading toward me in a rage screaming and cursing God. I thought he had mistaken me for an employee there and was going to take his rage out on me. Later on, I was at another clients miles away, and reached into my bag for an invoice and found I had put my semi auto in there with one in the pike and the hammer was back, still in the holster. I could have shot myself by mistake! I don't even remember cocking it.

I think we can make our own rules and scenarios in our heads, but we will never know when the time comes, until it comes.
 
I'm a retired male of small stature. My question is...at what point in a confrontation in a public parking lot, place, etc. could I legally pull my concealed weapon to defend myself if/when confronted by a male individual half my age, twice my size, with a out of control temper, but no visible weapon in his hand? Assuming I have already retreated to the point of "no where else to go".

Two questions: Are you a full timer and if you are which state do you (call home) plate your vehicle in?
I ask because of interstate travel laws pertaining to your ccw, and which one's you are likely to follow when traveling. On a side note I am thinking about going back on the road full time, and wondering if there is a better place to call home over another. As far as your question the 21' rule is a good example from Old Owl.
 
As someone above advised, you should research the laws in the state(s) you're traveling in and also be aware that in most states, brandishing is illegal. I do understand your hypothetical scenario...but just wanted to mention it for your safety. Take care out there!
 
Answer for Duke of Essex

Thanks for the response. We've been full timers for about 2 years now. We're based out of Idaho and have our CCP there, with a non-resident Florida CCP as backup. This allows us to legally carry in approx 42 states. Of course the west coast is pretty well prohibited. My wife carries a wheel gun and I carry an auto.
 
Depends a great deal on the state and even some cities. Many states now have "stand your ground" laws but many do not. As many have said, in most cases you must show that you felt your life was in danger. Always research local laws and be prepared to defend your actions in court.
 
"Sometimes the simple act of exposing your weapon will make the BG retreat. "

I would never start an arguement here, and the variables are infinite, but I made up my mind a long time ago that if I show the weapon, I will use it. So I look to not getting to that level. If a perpetrator is coming toward me, I will assume a defensive posture, put up my left hand as if one is saying to stop, put my right hand hovering over my firearm and in a loud and direct voice say, "DO NOT APPROACH!" If they keep on coming - so be it.

I agree with that. That is what I would try to do.
 
First off--you refine your situational awareness to where you are all the time and keep thinking about the bad possibilities as you go about your business. Avoidance of a confrontation comes before actual confrontation. In any confrontation, as you retreat, you yell at the top of your lungs that you do not want any trouble or confrontation--anyone within earshot is now a potential witness to your desire to avoid a problem and goes a long way to removing criminal or civil liability. If it is at that "no way out/I am scared and fear for my life" point, depending on the state and the legality of your CC---it is why you carry and you do what you gotta do. Hopefully you and I will never be put in that position, although I am amazed at the number of threads and replies that seem to have this kind of "experience". Either I am lucky to have been living for 69 years and never found myself in such a posiition or some of the forum members live in Tombstone or the middle of Bagdhad or are just having a good ole time sitting at their computers and believing.
 
I'm a retired male of small stature. My question is...at what point in a confrontation in a public parking lot, place, etc. could I legally pull my concealed weapon to defend myself if/when confronted by a male individual half my age, twice my size, with a out of control temper, but no visible weapon in his hand? Assuming I have already retreated to the point of "no where else to go".

Trouble with someone in the RV park?
 
We travel frequently for long distances in our RV and have stayed at some pretty scary places over the years. I have always carried in the RV and have recently started CC while at the more shady places we have found ourselves. I have been approached twice but nothing progressed to require I draw my weapon. I am the one that walks the small dogs (no threat to anyone) at all hours of the day and night so I am frequently alone walking around at night in strange campgrounds or parking lots.

I keep track of what states I will traveling through or staying in and keep up with the transport and CC laws for that state. Most of the time we have the guns locked up while underway once we leave our home state (especially when in Kalifornia). In legal carry and concealed transport states per my CC permit, I will keep at least the largest caliber firearm loaded and close for rest area stops or isolated stops along the road to walk the dogs etc. It has worked for us so far.

I generally travel with more than one firearm. The largest caliber goes to bed with us at night; otherwise it is readily accessible in the RV during the day. In legal carry states I carry my .40 S&W with me; unless it is really hot out and then I carry a pocket gun.

The non-legal CC states are the tricky ones. Do you carry anyway or do you risk getting caught somewhere with no defense? To me it depends on where we are at the time. My family's safety comes first; mine second and we accept the consequences of being caught with an "illegal" firearm. I should note here that I have an extremely bad back with multiple surgeries so there is no way I could run away or fight anyone trying to over power me. I am not a small person but I would shatter like glass. I keep my situational awareness on "high alert" nearly all the time and I think that keeps me out of trouble....at least so far.
 
I'm a retired male of small stature. My question is...at what point in a confrontation in a public parking lot, place, etc. could I legally pull my concealed weapon to defend myself if/when confronted by a male individual half my age, twice my size, with a out of control temper, but no visible weapon in his hand? Assuming I have already retreated to the point of "no where else to go".

You certainly would have a great "disparity of force" argument. If you feel that the other guy intends to kill you or do you great bodily harm, do that which is necessary to protect yourself. Either way, your life will be about to change.
Remember, the American legal system is not about justice, it's a contest to see who has the best lawyer.:cray:
 

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