Hundreds Of DHS Armored Trucks On The Move In United States.

opsspec1991

Active member
I know this is going around.... not sure of the truth in it. Make your own assessment. (EG)
Hundreds Of DHS Armored Trucks On The Move In United States.
Footage of hundreds of armored trucks, similar to ones reportedly purchased recently by the Department Of Homeland Security has appeared online, raising more questions over their intended use.

The video was uploaded to YouTube last week by a user who stated that it was shot in the middle of the desert between Hackberry and Peach Springs, Arizona.

It shows hundreds of military style trucks loaded on to a train, presumably in the process of being delivered domestically for law enforcement or military purposes.

The video raises significant questions in the wake of reports that the Department of Homeland Security, headed by Janet Napolitano, recently purchased around 2,700 MRAP trucks that many believe are to be deployed to local law enforcement agencies around the country.

Steve Watson
Infowars.com
Mar 25, 2013
Footage of hundreds of armored trucks, similar to ones reportedly purchased recently by the Department Of Homeland Security has appeared online, raising more questions over their intended use.
The video was uploaded to YouTube last week by a user who stated that it was shot in the middle of the desert between Hackberry and Peach Springs, Arizona.
It shows hundreds of military style trucks loaded on to a train, presumably in the process of being delivered domestically for law enforcement or military purposes.

 
One of the responses I saw on FB said that this cargo is normal for that area. This equipment is the Marine Corps going from bases in Calif. to desert training. Don't know first hand, but that explanation seems like it could be reasonable to me.
 
You're kidding right? LOL Go to just about any military base and you will see this very thing. It's nothing to be paranoid about. A lot of times the military uses trains to transport a lot of equipment, it's much cheaper than convoying, and military units travel all over the country for different training exercises, and usually bring their equipment with them. Also don't be surprised when you see semi's transporting this kind of equipment either, it provides even more jobs at a substantially higher cost, which "helps the economy." Transporting a small battalion worth of equipment 2,000 miles costs $1 million+. Sometimes, I think they do it just for fun, but especially to meet their budget so it doesn't get cut next year.
 
Ok, I think I can clear this up. First off, these are not used by normal DHS employees, and in my Time in the Army, they were in the process of phasing out older style HMMVs and replacing them with the newer styles you see in the video (beginning). Im not one to rain on anyones parade but, the whole conspiracy theory is being blown a little out of control, assuming the Government will "SOON" be forcing Martial law on everyday Americans. The other vehicles you see in the video are nothing more than Military style Semi trucks, commonly used to transport things like ammo, food, water etc in large amounts, nothing I see here should raise any alarm. It would take hundreds of soldiers, thousands of gallons of fuel (diesel) and many man hours to transport these things from one base to another, assuming theyre not being put out of service or being transported to Iraq or Afghanistan.
I know many of us on here know better, but then again, some of us, assume the worst, especially because this isnt an everyday thing to see. However, the person taping is ignorant and infowars.com is obviously ignorant for assuming the worst....Until you see soldiers on your streets, no need to worry.
 
I am not going to down play the possible evil intentions of our elected officials... But, this is the most cost efficient method of transporting large amounts vehicles across America. For shorter transpo, you'd see flatbeds. This, could be nothing more than an equipment account transfer from one base to another. Vehicles are listed and maintained on an electronic account and at times can be transfered to another, then transported. We are going to see a lot of vehicles coming back from overseas over the next few years with the reduction of force in Iraq & Afghan. In fact, we here in AMC were briefed by the four star during one of his annual rounds that we'd see an increase(short-term) in deployments to help secure and transpo the massive amounts of equipment from overseas. Go to AFTimes.com and search a bit and you'll probably find an article.

The tan vehicles don't worry me nearly as much as the black ones... I will keep a watchful eye on both though.
 
Ok, I think I can clear this up. First off, these are not used by normal DHS employees, and in my Time in the Army, they were in the process of phasing out older style HMMVs and replacing them with the newer styles you see in the video (beginning). Im not one to rain on anyones parade but, the whole conspiracy theory is being blown a little out of control, assuming the Government will "SOON" be forcing Martial law on everyday Americans. The other vehicles you see in the video are nothing more than Military style Semi trucks, commonly used to transport things like ammo, food, water etc in large amounts, nothing I see here should raise any alarm. It would take hundreds of soldiers, thousands of gallons of fuel (diesel) and many man hours to transport these things from one base to another, assuming theyre not being put out of service or being transported to Iraq or Afghanistan.
I know many of us on here know better, but then again, some of us, assume the worst, especially because this isnt an everyday thing to see. However, the person taping is ignorant and infowars.com is obviously ignorant for assuming the worst....Until you see soldiers on your streets, no need to worry.

I understand your point, but I have to say that the time to "worry" isn't after you see troops in the streets. Just sayin'...
 
Ok, I think I can clear this up. First off, these are not used by normal DHS employees, and in my Time in the Army, they were in the process of phasing out older style HMMVs and replacing them with the newer styles you see in the video (beginning). Im not one to rain on anyones parade but, the whole conspiracy theory is being blown a little out of control, assuming the Government will "SOON" be forcing Martial law on everyday Americans. The other vehicles you see in the video are nothing more than Military style Semi trucks, commonly used to transport things like ammo, food, water etc in large amounts, nothing I see here should raise any alarm. It would take hundreds of soldiers, thousands of gallons of fuel (diesel) and many man hours to transport these things from one base to another, assuming theyre not being put out of service or being transported to Iraq or Afghanistan.
I know many of us on here know better, but then again, some of us, assume the worst, especially because this isnt an everyday thing to see. However, the person taping is ignorant and infowars.com is obviously ignorant for assuming the worst....Until you see soldiers on your streets, no need to worry.

Please tell me what or why DHS needs there items:
Amid military training exercises in U.S. cities and towns, the dismissal of many of President Obama's top generals and the federal government's purchase of 2 billion rounds of hollow point ammunition by domestic agencies, we discover that the Department of Homeland Security is obtaining thousands of heavily armored vehicles for urban use (in this country).

Of course, this latest frightening revelation comes to us not from the well-funded mainstream news media, but from an actual reporter in today's new media.

Modern Survival Blog reports:

The Department of Homeland Security (through the U.S. Army Forces Command) recently retrofitted 2,717 of these ‘Mine Resistant Protected' vehicles for service on the streets of the United States.

Although I’ve seen and read several online blurbs about this vehicle of late, I decided to dig slightly deeper and discover more about the vehicle itself.

The new DHS sanctioned ‘Street Sweeper’ (my own slang due to the gun ports) is built by Navistar Defense (NavistarDefense.com), a division within the Navistar organization. Under the Navistar umbrella are several other companies including International Trucks, IC Bus (they make school buses), Monaco RV (recreational vehicles), WorkHorse (they make chassis), MaxxForce (diesel engines), and Navistar Financial (the money arm of the company).

Don't believe it?

Navistar Defense describes the vehicle, and confirms the DHS order:

The International® MaxxPro® is Navistar Defense’s Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicle and incorporates the latest design in armoring technology. Extensively tested by the military and used in theater today, the MaxxPro features a V-shaped hull and other design features that greatly improve survivability. With so much protection, it’s the vehicle that every crew wants when they’re out in the field.

MaxxPro® MRAP specifications:
Length: 254″ (21.2 feet)
Width: 102″ (8.5 feet)
Height: 120″ (10 feet)
Wheel base: 153″ (12.8 feet)
Curb weight: 37,850 lbs. (18.9 tons)
Engine: MaxxForce® 9.3

The MaxxPro MRAP is built to withstand ballistic arms fire, mine blasts, IEDs, and other emerging threats. Its V-shaped hull helps deflect blasts out and away from the crew and its armoring can be customized to meet any mission requirement.

The installation contract retrofits 2,717 vintage MaxxPro vehicles (work performed in West Point, Mississippi) with a new rolling chassis. This chassis enhancement included the addition of the DXM™ independent suspension, a MaxxForce® 9.3 engine, and a 570 amp alternator and driveline. The work was completed at the end of May 2012.

Additionally, over the last several months, U.S. troops and equipment have been seen operating in several cities, often without any warning. Residents awake in terror to the sight of Black Hawk helicopters buzzing over their neighborhoods and even to the sounds of gunfire.
 
Admittedly, the purchase of these MRAPs by the DHS is something to NOT be taken lightly. What has changed in AmeriKa now, that causes these agents to need them? Do they really come under such intense fire to have to use MRAPs, vehicles designed for keeping the guys inside safe from IED blasts and weapons fire up to a .50BMG? No, they don't encounter this sort of fire here in the States... So, why have it? Why have it now? One really has to ask themselves these questions... Why didn't they purchase these sort of vehicles five years ago? What is it now that has them so worried that they'll need these up-armored vehicles? Is there some huge, massive terrorist strike they have intel on that's headed our way? Do they expect the Mexican Army to cross the border in mass? Is Canada coming over? Cube jumping the water? What?

Or, is the reason much more sinister than most AmeriKans are willing to acknowledge? Does the idea of heavily armed "Police" kicking in doors, chewing up the streets with 240 fire scare the sh!t out of you so much that it has to be impossible? B/c if it wasn't impossible... everything you thought you knew about your country, everything you hoped we still were... comes crashing down? If so, maybe you need to open your eyes and your mind a bit... understand that the world is a F'ing nasty place and we are not immune to those terrible things here. Simply b/c we are Americans doesn't mean we won't have to fight for our freedoms again on our own soil. Don't be naive people...
 
On Thursday, Terry M. Hestilow, a retired Army officer with nearly 30 years of service under his belt, as well as combat experience in both Vietnam and Afghanistan issued a dire warning to all Americans.

The following warning was posted on Hestilow’s Facebook page:

I fully intend to address this in far greater detail within days, but ask yourself, with all the law enforcement available in the United States, who the DHS is preparing to declare war on inside the U.S.?

With the massive purchases of almost 3,000 new armored vehicles (MRAPs) and 1.6 BILLION rounds of ammunition, with associated weapons, who in the U.S. do they intend to kill? Short answer: You and me! Anyone they think is standing in their way to impose a new Marxist government! Anyone who stands for the U.S. Constitution!

We must demand that our representatives (Senators and U.S. Representatives) stand firm and immediately force, by law if necessary, the DHS turn over their arsenal of war making equipment to the Department of Defense. Nothing justifies this massive arms build up of an agency whose jurisdiction is internal within the United States of America! They are preparing to go to war against American citizens!


Read more: Army Captain: Obama?s DHS Intends to Kill ?You and Me!? :: Clash Daily
Get more Clash on ClashDaily.com, Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube.
 
Admittedly, the purchase of these MRAPs by the DHS is something to NOT be taken lightly. What has changed in AmeriKa now, that causes these agents to need them? Do they really come under such intense fire to have to use MRAPs, vehicles designed for keeping the guys inside safe from IED blasts and weapons fire up to a .50BMG? No, they don't encounter this sort of fire here in the States... So, why have it? Why have it now? One really has to ask themselves these questions... Why didn't they purchase these sort of vehicles five years ago? What is it now that has them so worried that they'll need these up-armored vehicles? Is there some huge, massive terrorist strike they have intel on that's headed our way? Do they expect the Mexican Army to cross the border in mass? Is Canada coming over? Cube jumping the water? What?

Or, is the reason much more sinister than most AmeriKans are willing to acknowledge? Does the idea of heavily armed "Police" kicking in doors, chewing up the streets with 240 fire scare the sh!t out of you so much that it has to be impossible? B/c if it wasn't impossible... everything you thought you knew about your country, everything you hoped we still were... comes crashing down? If so, maybe you need to open your eyes and your mind a bit... understand that the world is a F'ing nasty place and we are not immune to those terrible things here. Simply b/c we are Americans doesn't mean we won't have to fight for our freedoms again on our own soil. Don't be naive people...

My thoughts precisely. Too much coming together at the same time to not think that it could be in the works. It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you!
 
The only one we need to fear are those too ignorant to research on their own and those willing to perpetuate such blatantly ludicrous conspiracy claims.
snopes.com: SSA/DHS Arms Purchase

Equally to be feared are those whose idea of "research" is going to snopes.

I'm not saying snopes is all wrong. But it is run by a pair of liberals who love to put their own slant on things. And whose research has been shown to be somewhat lacking.
 
Hm. Let's just look at this, shall we...

1.6 billion rounds... over 135,000 armed agents (remember, DHS includes the Coast Guard, the Secret Service, Customs/Border Protection, etc etc..), and over the five year terms of that contract, it factors out to be a lot less than you'd think. 1.6bil / 135,000 = 11851 and change. now divide that by five years, and you get a bit over 2370 rounds per agent, per year. Let's split that over 52 weeks... 45.58.... rounds per person per week. Hell, before prices skyrocketed, I was easily throwing that much ammo downrange, myself. Doesn't seem irresponsible or threatening to me if a federal agent who is required by their job to carry a firearm, would expend a box of ammo every week at the range to maintain proficiency. (God, I wish local PD would do that - maybe they'd shoot a few less innocent bystanders!)

Let's recognize, as well, that that much ammo wasn't a contract to buy, it was several GSA contracts, which were basically terms to ensure that the government was getting a good rate on ammo. Since that money comes out of OUR POCKETS, yeah, I'd rather they look at doing long-term contracts, instead of paying the kind of retail rates we sometimes see.

Hollow point vs. ball ammo? C'mon people, give that a rest. The military can't use hollow point ammo; it's a part of the Hague convention from the late 19th century... and JHP ammo isn't only NOT prevented for domestic use, hell, the FBI flat out requires it for their service pistols. In fact, the last I'd heard, they were using Remington Golden Sabres... same stuff I use in my EDC.

Now, let's talk tanks...

a) They're not tanks, they're "mine-resistant ambush protected" vehicles.
b) DHS didn't BUY them, they were just stupid enough to post on a DHS-centric website that there were 2717 MRAPs being refurb'd for the USMC, by Navistar Defense. Further, DHS *DOES* have some in service... 16 of them. They're used by Customs & Border Patrol to serve warrants to suspected violent offenders. Seems legit to me. Really.

All of this stuff just comes at a really bad time.. we're concerned about a rather pointed attack on our second amendment rights (and let me diverge for just a moment here: we've been allowing this for almost a century, now - the National Firearms Act, the Gun Protection Act, blah blah blah.. they all infringe, in various ways, on one's ability to have and bear arms), and as a result, we're dramatically more sensitive to what we perceive as a potential threat from the federal government.

Take heart in several things:

1. Local sheriffs in many cases are either staying out of the fight entirely - or they're flat out saying, "this is ********, I'm not enforcing this retarded law, it'd be suicide!" In a few (but growing!) number of cases, Sheriffs are flat out refusing to enforce, and are actively campaigning AGAINST further gun control.
2. Local LEOs don't train anywhere nearly as much as private firearms owners do. While this is a broad stroke, ask your local LEO how much time he or she spends at the range, maintaining skills... and then compare it to how much time YOU spend at the range. Yeah. Thought so. :)
3. MRAPs? Pfft. It's an SUV on steroids.. if any of this were true, and the intent was to create a federal security force.. What poor stupid idiot is actually going to buy into this and actively work it? You'd be out of your friggin' mind. There are WAY too many ways to assault these vehicles... Yup, they're mine resistant.. that means they're protected on the bottom.

I umm... worked with a.. let's just call them a rather well known group of guys. They were... firearms enthusiasts who traveled overseas, let's call them. I've picked up a couple of handy little things from them - one being, look for the obvious... and another being, stop thinking like a monkey in a cage.

MRAPs shows up to serve a warrant, the requisite number of jackbooted thugs jump out to bang on the front door.. I'm out the back door. By the time buddy has knocked down the front door, I'm already out of the house (that's what Go bags are for, my friend!) and I've shot a handful of buddies a text message. Before the vehicle leaves the neighborhood, there are friends who've shown up.

Yup, they've got "active shooter ports" in the glass. Friends, if you can't shoot through the side of it, and they need a port hole to shoot out? What happens to a round that gets shot *IN* through that porthole? (and come on, if you can't hit a 2" target from a hundred yards, even with iron sights? You need to spend more time at the range!) 55 grains of kinetic goodness, rattling around INSIDE that effectively bullet-proof cage... "ohnoes!" says the driver, "we can haz escape rootz!"

How long does an engine run, when the exhaust pipe gets a half dozen potatos shoved in it and wedged firmly in place? (if you use only one, it pretty quickly becomes a cannon!)

Course, there's also the consideration of visibility... the aforementioned gun ports are on the sides. Not the top, not the front... just the sides. heck, $99 at the local walmart will buy you a cheap paintball gun and a bunch of paintballs. You don't even have to get ON the darn thing, just light it up from a (relatively) safe distance. Do that on the sides, around the portholes, and... sure, you've got a hole to shoot out of, but.. you can't see what you're shooting at.

I could go more in depth, but.. you get the point. The guys lacing up the jackboots aren't superhuman SpecOps trigger pullers.. they're closer to the "GI Joe Wannabe" end of the spectrum. Nope, not all are Barney Fife, but... they simply don't do the same level of training, and aren't prepared to tackle an opposing force comprised of guys who can think fast on their feet.

Don't sweat this stuff. A domestic army and DHS tanks are the least of your worries.

If you want to worry about something? Start looking into why the hell the IRS, FDA, EPA, or Dept. of Education need armed agents. That'll give you something to get legitimately worked up over. :)
 
No matter what you do, no matter what defenses you have there will always be someone bigger and better. Rethink your strategies and applications. Adapt, overcome and improvise. I think that most who view these posts believe in what's being posted just don't want to be involved in the process. Worried about big brother and keeping their heads down. IMHO.......Me, Let my 1st Amendment fly as well as my Second. Ya only live once, lets make the most of it.
 
First, and foremost, anyone who isn't worried about the direction our government is/has taken in the last few years is a damn fool. Our government has all but gone from being a Constitutional Republic to full fledged Socialist (Liberalism) form of government and our liberties are being eroded daily. This particular thread has gone from the movement of numerous government vehicles to who knows where and for what reasons, which in today's world, would be pertinent questions. Shipment of military equipment by rail has gone on for years and is an inexpensive method of movement but, just how much equipment is moved with the frequency we now see? O's private army (DHS and who knows who else) exists and the preparations being made could be seen by Ray Charles. One poster on here seems to think all of this is part of some ridiculous conspiracy and seems to think paranoia has overtaken us all. I wish it were all simply paranoia. Paranoia can be treated, ignorance is like ugly, goes to the bone! The people who choose to be willfully ignorant of what is happening to our country will be the first to suffer and crammed into those camps that some deem to be fictitious. They will be the sheep who could never believe anything like that could happen to our country and never prepared themselves in case something did/does happen. This country has had ample warning and a clarion call to prepare itself for what is coming but only a few have even noticed. There is a passage in the Bible (that dusty old book some on here don't believe) I Cor. 14:8, "For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself for battle?" The trumpet of our government has been giving uncertain sounds for a while now and, consequently, there are few preparing for the battle for our own nation. May God help us all!
 
Please tell me what or why DHS needs there items:
Amid military training exercises in U.S. cities and towns, the dismissal of many of President Obama's top generals and the federal government's purchase of 2 billion rounds of hollow point ammunition by domestic agencies, we discover that the Department of Homeland Security is obtaining thousands of heavily armored vehicles for urban use (in this country).

Of course, this latest frightening revelation comes to us not from the well-funded mainstream news media, but from an actual reporter in today's new media.

Modern Survival Blog reports:

The Department of Homeland Security (through the U.S. Army Forces Command) recently retrofitted 2,717 of these ‘Mine Resistant Protected' vehicles for service on the streets of the United States.

Although I’ve seen and read several online blurbs about this vehicle of late, I decided to dig slightly deeper and discover more about the vehicle itself.

The new DHS sanctioned ‘Street Sweeper’ (my own slang due to the gun ports) is built by Navistar Defense (NavistarDefense.com), a division within the Navistar organization. Under the Navistar umbrella are several other companies including International Trucks, IC Bus (they make school buses), Monaco RV (recreational vehicles), WorkHorse (they make chassis), MaxxForce (diesel engines), and Navistar Financial (the money arm of the company).

Don't believe it?

Navistar Defense describes the vehicle, and confirms the DHS order:

The International® MaxxPro® is Navistar Defense’s Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicle and incorporates the latest design in armoring technology. Extensively tested by the military and used in theater today, the MaxxPro features a V-shaped hull and other design features that greatly improve survivability. With so much protection, it’s the vehicle that every crew wants when they’re out in the field.

MaxxPro® MRAP specifications:
Length: 254″ (21.2 feet)
Width: 102″ (8.5 feet)
Height: 120″ (10 feet)
Wheel base: 153″ (12.8 feet)
Curb weight: 37,850 lbs. (18.9 tons)
Engine: MaxxForce® 9.3

The MaxxPro MRAP is built to withstand ballistic arms fire, mine blasts, IEDs, and other emerging threats. Its V-shaped hull helps deflect blasts out and away from the crew and its armoring can be customized to meet any mission requirement.

The installation contract retrofits 2,717 vintage MaxxPro vehicles (work performed in West Point, Mississippi) with a new rolling chassis. This chassis enhancement included the addition of the DXM™ independent suspension, a MaxxForce® 9.3 engine, and a 570 amp alternator and driveline. The work was completed at the end of May 2012.

Additionally, over the last several months, U.S. troops and equipment have been seen operating in several cities, often without any warning. Residents awake in terror to the sight of Black Hawk helicopters buzzing over their neighborhoods and even to the sounds of gunfire.

Im going to try and answer some of your questions one at a time, and debunk some of the fears here. Firstly, theres nothing to support any DHS claim to use US Military forces in American cities, the purchase of Ammo happens in times of war, hollow points are not however used by our forces, it is all Ball Ammo. Hollow points could be purchased for Federal Agencies however, such as CIA, FBI, NSA, etc
Retrofitting 2,700 vehicles can be easily attributed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, some vehicles still deemed serviceable are shipped back to the states to retrofit and send back into war. There is no evidence to support them being used in the United States, further more, such vehicles would almost be useless here in the states, theyre built to transport no more than 5 people, and often times used to clear paths of IEDs.
MRAPs have been used overseas for almost 10 years now, a DHS order makes sense, being they are (Department of Homeland Security) and I would expect such vehicles to be ordered by a Homeland Defense branch for our troops overseas. Training does occur in some cities outside of Military bases, not in populated cities, but on the outskirts of bases in "Simulation cities" again to train for war over seas.
Until I see some sort of evidence that the US Army is planning an attack on civilians, I wouldnt worry, its posts like these and people like you who raise fear. I served 6 years and not once had been asked to train for a war in the states, I have friends who served longer than me who may or may not have participated in mock missions like the one you describe, and I can assure you, it is not for fighting Americans. Every soldier I have served with has brought up scenarios such as the one you describe, and each and every one of them said they would remove their uniform and fight along side the American people, we SERVE the PEOPLE, NOT THE GOVERNMENT.
 
Im going to try and answer some of your questions one at a time, and debunk some of the fears here. Firstly, theres nothing to support any DHS claim to use US Military forces in American cities, the purchase of Ammo happens in times of war, hollow points are not however used by our forces, it is all Ball Ammo. Hollow points could be purchased for Federal Agencies however, such as CIA, FBI, NSA, etc
Retrofitting 2,700 vehicles can be easily attributed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, some vehicles still deemed serviceable are shipped back to the states to retrofit and send back into war. There is no evidence to support them being used in the United States, further more, such vehicles would almost be useless here in the states, theyre built to transport no more than 5 people, and often times used to clear paths of IEDs.
MRAPs have been used overseas for almost 10 years now, a DHS order makes sense, being they are (Department of Homeland Security) and I would expect such vehicles to be ordered by a Homeland Defense branch for our troops overseas. Training does occur in some cities outside of Military bases, not in populated cities, but on the outskirts of bases in "Simulation cities" again to train for war over seas.
Until I see some sort of evidence that the US Army is planning an attack on civilians, I wouldnt worry, its posts like these and people like you who raise fear. I served 6 years and not once had been asked to train for a war in the states, I have friends who served longer than me who may or may not have participated in mock missions like the one you describe, and I can assure you, it is not for fighting Americans. Every soldier I have served with has brought up scenarios such as the one you describe, and each and every one of them said they would remove their uniform and fight along side the American people, we SERVE the PEOPLE, NOT THE GOVERNMENT.

I noted on this in another thread, the military does actually use JHP ammo Domestically. It's used by the LE element of at least the USAF, Security Forces & the DoD contracted LEO that work the gates a lot now. Even the service members assigned to the weapons vaults, the ones that arm up daily with M9s carry JHP ammo. I know first hand b/c I have to inventory these storage weapons under gaurd(so I don't steal one...), so while the amount of JHP ammo in use by the military is limited... it's there. Take that as you wish.

Now, on to the matter of DHS agencies using MRAPs and such. Again, I have to ask... why now? What's changed? If we've been using these up-armored vehicles for so long then why is it that they just now decided they "needed" them? Are the high-risk warrants being served so dangerous that agents are being mowed down with PK fire? Are the cartels in L.A. using 12.7mm Russian suplus heavies? RPGs? What? So, they only have 16 in use... okay, would you worry when they get 20? 30? 50? When does it start to seem like major over-kill? Are you not bothered in the slightest that deomestic LE is becoming as equally well armed as the military, as equally well trained, and nearly as large? This doesn't make you go, "hmm?" at all? Maybe it should.

I'm not saying that the sole purpose of these vehicles, large contracts of ammo and increased numbers of agents are to go out in the streets to chew up civilians. What I think is a good probability is it's planned for the coming civil unrest following the actual financial/dollar collapse. If we can fathom that happening, so can the gov't... and they are not going to let the nation spiral into anarchy, or allow their power to diminish b/c of it! Do you really want MRAPs sitting in your neighborhood, "guarding" you from the criminals? after they've taken your weapons away(for your own safety)... Katrina anybody? I don't... maybe you do though.

Also, I hope you're right about the number of servicemen & women that'd displace from the ranks and fight with the American people.
 

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