How many of you work at a job at says no weapons on it's grounds?


Like the title says how many of you work at a job that says you cant have weapons on it;s grounds? After being layed off i got a short term job till something better come along at the golden arch( not my first pick but it;s something to support the family) They say you cant have weapons on it's grounds, no pocket knifes,guns,tanks and so on. I will be working the night shift i will be getting out at 4am what i had planned on doing was. Bring a backpack to work leaving it in "MY CAR" in it would be a change of clothing ( my carry clothes) and my holster,gun,mags,mag holder,flashlight, and my spring assisted knife and some other stuff. After my shift i would get it change and be on my way. The way i see it is the second i clock out i'm no longer on company time i'm on my time and company rules do not apply to me. Yes i would still be company grounds. They have no right to search my person or my car. Just like if it's my day off and i go to the store to get something to eat and i'm carrying they cant fire me for not following company rules can they? I would so no as i'm on my time and not on the clock getting paid. What do you do/what would you do if you worked at a place with a rule like this? Now from what they told me you are locked in at night and can not go outside ( they don't want you to get mugged lol). Me i feel i will be fine doing what i have said and also plan on having a pocket knife on me in my pocket ( again thats on my person and in a pocket no one can see it).
 

putmanphoto

S&W - M&P 40
I am not sure about the laws where you are located.... I am in TN - and we have a Handgun Carry Permit - we can open or conceal carry. But if we carry on grounds that are posted, even if it is in our cars in the parking lot - we can risk losing our HCP FOREVER. I do not carry if I know that I am going to be somewhere that is postedor that is a GUN FREE ZONE.... I carry everyday and I will do nothing that will risk me from that right. My employer allows me to open carry in the office - and I do.
You might want to check into the laws of the state - are you going to lose your right to carry.
I am completely with you on the reason..... but I would hate to see you lose the right to protect yourself/your family.
 

FN1910

New member
Let me get this straight. You get off at 4 am, walk out to your car, change into your carry clothes, put on your holster, gun, mags, flashlight, switchblade etc. all to drive home!!!!! May I ask where you work and what kind of territory you drive home through.

Second, when you clocked out you are still on their property until you drive off.You may be on your own time but you are still in their parking lot and the rules still apply. Whether the rules are legal or not and whether they can search is a different question but having clocked out doesn't mean a lot.

As for carrying the pocket knife doesn't matter one way or another but don't think that because you keep it in your pocket that they won't find out. I don't know what the rules are about pocket knives but it's your decision.
 

rheaj

New member
I work at a college in New York State. Just having a gun in my car on the grounds of an educational institution is a felony. It sucks.
 
Let me get this straight. You get off at 4 am, walk out to your car, change into your carry clothes, put on your holster, gun, mags, flashlight, switchblade etc. all to drive home!!!!! May I ask where you work and what kind of territory you drive home through.

Second, when you clocked out you are still on their property until you drive off.You may be on your own time but you are still in their parking lot and the rules still apply. Whether the rules are legal or not and whether they can search is a different question but having clocked out doesn't mean a lot.

As for carrying the pocket knife doesn't matter one way or another but don't think that because you keep it in your pocket that they won't find out. I don't know what the rules are about pocket knives but it's your decision.

Yes and like i said we have some other 24 hour stores in town and i may do my shopping. Like i said it's a job just to make money nothing i would be heart broken over losing. Yes I would put all that on it's your EDC or EDCG ( Every Day Carry or Every Day Carry Gear what ever one you want to call it). Why have a gun and permit to carry if you leave it at home for work? That could be the one time you need it. I live in a small town but more and more thugs and drug dealing TRASH are moving up from NY,MA,CT,NJ and so on. I do not carry a switch blade you can not have that stlye of knife unless you are ( active duty Military,police,Emt or Fire). It's a spring assisted knife not a AUTO knife. As for the parking lot it's a huge lot with other stores and i'm sure they do not own the whole thing. So i can just park in another space not owned by them. The other stores in the lot are closed at night so it would be no problem and i know the manager at one of them. So i could ask them ( before someone posts something about not parking in other stores spaces).
 
I am not sure about the laws where you are located.... I am in TN - and we have a Handgun Carry Permit - we can open or conceal carry. But if we carry on grounds that are posted, even if it is in our cars in the parking lot - we can risk losing our HCP FOREVER. I do not carry if I know that I am going to be somewhere that is postedor that is a GUN FREE ZONE.... I carry everyday and I will do nothing that will risk me from that right. My employer allows me to open carry in the office - and I do.
You might want to check into the laws of the state - are you going to lose your right to carry.
I am completely with you on the reason..... but I would hate to see you lose the right to protect yourself/your family.

Sorry if you made you think I'M talking about a gun free zone or a posted zone. It's not a gun free zone or a posted zone it's just a company rule in the books THE GROUNDS ARE NOT POSTED!! Even if it was i would just park across the street with the gun in the car.
 

putmanphoto

S&W - M&P 40
I understand that it is a company rule, the rules here in TN are that - if the company, stated in their hand book or you are told in an orientation, or even informally that we can not carry - even if posted on the doors of the establishment, here that includes our car if parked in that company parking lot... I understand that you will get permission to park elsewhere... I am not in any way trying to cause you grief or give you a hard time... I just know here in TN if they (Company) says - no guns allowed - and we do, either on our person or in the car - we could risk losing our HCP - PERIOD. No questions asked...
It seems that it is clearly your decision, and since I do not know the laws of where you are located, I can only quote the rules that apply to me and the state that I reside.
 
Second, when you clocked out you are still on their property until you drive off.You may be on your own time but you are still in their parking lot and the rules still apply. Whether the rules are legal or not and whether they can search is a different question but having clocked out doesn't mean a lot.
Like i said in the last post it's not posted and it's not a gun free zone. If I'm off the clock they can not tell me what to do. I'm just another customer paying for goods. If i was to carry when i was off the clock all they could do was ask me to leave. They would have no grounds to fire me for things i do off the clock.
 

ReadnFool

New member
carry in prohibited workplace

First I am not a lawyer, am not an expert in NH law, and have not read the McD employee handbook.

Having said that here are some thoughts.

#1 You may be fired by your employer for any reason. The validity of the reason only matters as to whether you qualify for unemployment compensation. Unless the reason for your firing was related to an EEOC protected status you are out of luck.

#2 If your employer states that employees are not allowed to carry weapons on company property (unless it specifically states while at work or while on the clock) and you carry "as a customer" the company can fire you and probably not have to pay unemployment.

#3 An employer can include in the company handbook a clause forcing you to submit to a search of your person and vehicle on company property or face termination (I don't know if McD's does)

With those thoughts in mind, if you are still willing to risk your job and carry then I would suggest the following:

#A Do not tell anyone, ever, that you are armed. Not the guy who you think is your new best friend, not your mother, not anybody. Even someone hearing that you might be armed could be reason for your supervision to single you out.

#B Make sure everything is legal. This means permits, ID, firearms, ammo, knives, and other weapons. If your work does catch on that you might be armed they will likely call the cops before confronting you. The police will do the search (for the officers protection of course) and then that knife that is just over the legal length or considered just a little too spring assisted turns losing your job into a criminal offense.

I would also reconsider how you plan to re-arm after work. Unless it is very common for people to bring stuff from their car and then change (not to mention the privacy to arm where no co-worker will ever possibly see) then you will single yourself out. As for arming in the parking lot I am not a fan of that idea since if anyone does see they will either tell your work, or steal your stuff while you are at work.

I work at a place that does not by policy allow employees to bring fire arms on-site and there is no possibility of parking off site. Access is controlled and employees and vehicles are subject to search. This is not a big issue for me most of the time but occasionally I have to head downtown right after work and would not be able to stop by home. Personally I keep my fire arm secured in a very well hidden and secured lock box in the passenger compartment of my car. If I feel the need to arm or disarm then I stop at a random location away from work where I can be reasonably sure no one will notice or comment.
 
1 You may be fired by your employer for any reason. The validity of the reason only matters as to whether you qualify for unemployment compensation. Unless the reason for your firing was related to an EEOC protected status you are out of luck.
That is true but at the same time i have read a few suits that on the grounds they are off the clock and at such time they become just another consumer paying for goods and services. I will look up the cases see if i can find them. Also while we are on the topic in some states your car considered a extension of your home.

[An employer can include in the company handbook a clause forcing you to submit to a search of your person and vehicle on company property or face termination (I don't know if McD's does/QUOTE] Most companys who have something like that are companys that have stuff that employee's would still and could resell or get enouhg parts to make one of their own ( like ruger). Again even with that most also say if they have grounds to think you are stealing company goods. Ruger's factory in the next town over does not even have such a policy giving them the right o search cars. MCD has no such policy nor did i sign such paper work giving them the right to search my person and or car at any time with out a court ordered search warrant.

If your work does catch on that you might be armed they will likely call the cops before confronting you. The police will do the search (for the officers protection of course) and then that knife that is just over the legal length or considered just a little too spring assisted turns losing your job into a criminal offense.

They could call the cops all they want again i signed no such paper work letting them search me or my persons. The cops would show up and ask to search me or my car ( They would have no grounds for such a search and it would turn into herassment and would open then up to suits by me) So with out a court order to search my car with a list of what they are looking for and taking from me or my car no search would take place. Even if they jumped the hoops got the warrent and found a gun what then? They found a legal gun in side my car and i have a permit to carry ( even if i don;t have a permit it's still legal) If they did take away my permit i would then just open carry. As for the knife the legal length in NH last time i checked was around 7'' or something i show a guy carrying a hunting knife on his side the other day at pizza hut. I have no need for a knife that big. As for it being considered just a little too spring assisted i don't see that happing seeing as how Walmart sells them. Look up Terry VS Ohio the police must have grounds to think a crime has been commited or is about to take place. A person just having a gun is not enough grounds for a search..

The Court assessed the reasonableness of the police activity here by comparing it to activity that would ordinarily require a warrant. “... in justifying the particular intrusion the police officer must be able to point to specific and articulable facts which, taken together with rational inferences from those facts, reasonably warrant the intrusion.” In a situation where the police obtained a warrant, they would have brought these facts and inferences to the attention of a judicial officer before embarking on the actions in question. Post hoc judicial review of police activity is equally facilitated by these facts and inferences.

The Court also emphasized that the standard courts should employ is an objective one. “Would the facts available to the officer at the moment of the seizure or the search warrant a man of reasonable caution in the belief that the action taken was appropriate?” Lesser evidence would mean that the Court would tolerate invasions on the privacy of citizens supported by mere hunches—a result the Court would not tolerate. Moreover,

And simple “ ‘good faith on the part of the arresting officer is not enough.’ ... If subjective good faith alone were the test, the protections of the Fourth Amendment would evaporate, and the people would be ‘secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,’ only in the discretion of the police.” — quoting Beck v. Ohio, 379 U.S. 89 (1964)
The reasonableness inquiry takes into account the “nature and extent of the governmental interests involved,” including the general interest in crime prevention, the officer’s specific concern for his own safety, the citizen’s interest in his own privacy and dignity, and the extent to which the particular search in question intruded upon those interests. “Our evaluation of the proper balance that has to be struck in this type of case leads us to conclude that there must be a narrowly drawn authority to permit a reasonable search for weapons for the protection of the police officer, where he has reason to believe that he is dealing with an armed and dangerous individual, regardless of whether he has probable cause to arrest the individual for a crime.”

Even searches that start out as reasonable may “violate the Fourth Amendment by virtue of their intolerable intensity and scope.” Thus, the scope of the search must be justified by the circumstances that led the police to undertake it in the first place.

[quoteJustice White joined the opinion of the Court but suggested that

“There is nothing in the Constitution which prevents a policeman from addressing questions to anyone on the streets. Absent special circumstances, the person approached may not be detained or frisked but may refuse to cooperate and go on his way. However, given the proper circumstances, such as those in this case, it seems to me the person may be briefly detained against his will while pertinent questions are directed to him. Of course, the person stopped is not obliged to answer, answers may not be compelled, and refusal to answer furnishes no basis for an arrest, although it may alert the officer to the need for continued observation.” (392 U.S. 1, at 34).
With regard to the lack of obligation to respond when detained under circumstances of Terry, this opinion came to be regarded as persuasive authority in some jurisdictions, and the Court cited these remarks in dicta in Berkemer v. McCarty, 468 U.S. 420 (1984), at 439. However, in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004), the Court held that neither of these remarks was controlling in a situation where a state law required a detained person to identify himself.
]

[quoteJustice Douglas strongly disagreed with permitting a stop and search absent probable cause:

“We hold today that the police have greater authority to make a ‘seizure’ and conduct a ‘search’ than a judge has to authorize such action. We have said precisely the opposite over and over again.” (392 U.S. 1, at 37).
“To give the police greater power than a magistrate is to take a long step down the totalitarian path. Perhaps such a step is desirable to cope with modern forms of lawlessness. But if it is taken, it should be the deliberate choice of the people through a constitutional amendment.” (392 U.S. 1, at 38). ][/quote
 

Stiofan

New member
Employees can't carry at my work, I work graveyard from 9pm to 8am. I work for a large sporting goods chain which sells guns, but no employee is allowed to be armed. Just the way it is. Most of the guys have ccws and leave their weapons in the car but I just don't bring mine, I live only ten minutes away and it's light out when I drive home.

On the other hand we are allowed to carry knives, because we use them at work (either knives or box cutters) so I always have a folder plus my pocket knife with me.

I don't even carry when in the store on my off days, not worth the hassle. In those cases I will have my gun but I leave it in the car.

I have to say I lived in California for 48 years and never carried there, so not carrying at work now is no big deal to me. California (LA) was a whole lot more dangerous than Idaho.
 
W

wolfhunter

Guest
Company policy says, "No weapons on company property." FL state law says, "CWL holders may keep their weapon in a locked vehicle." To those who ask, I reply, "I don't carry at work." (Work is inside a limited access, fenced compound)
 

PascalFleischman

New member
I work in a non-posted, but company policy "Gun Free Zone". We are owned by an out-of-state company that does work for the petrochemical industry, so they made a blanket policy to cover all employees. They do not have much to do with day-to-day operations.

That being said, we are locally run, and my direct management has about 95% of the authority when it comes to personnel issues. Officially, we are to be fired on the spot if we get caught carrying. Unofficially, "Concealed means concealed".
 

putmanphoto

S&W - M&P 40
I am very thankful that I work for a small private owned business.. I open carry everyday in the office. In Tn we can OC or CC with our HCP.
Since there are 13 women and only 1 guy (do not feel sorry for him) :cray: - everyone says they are thankful that I carry daily. Our office is not in the best area of East Nashville.....
I wish there was a cut and dried answer to you question/situation. I would have to agree with most of the posts..... CC and tell no one. Hopefully, you will never get into a situation where you will have to use it, and expose yourself.
 

PascalFleischman

New member
Besides, if you work at McDonalds, it's not like they have a strict "Tuck in your shirt" policy. An IWB holster and an untucked shirt go a LOOONNNNGGG way towards personal safety. You're always inside, so wind gusts won't give you away. You're rarely finding yourself in such a position that high reaches would drag your shirt above your waist. And if it comes down to it, you have an untreatable condition where tight-fitting clothes cause you severe claustrophobia. That's not made-up crap, either. It's a truly diagnosable condition. If they make a fuss about it, get a doctor's note saying you must keep your shirt untucked to prevent a panic attack.
 

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