How do you/have you normally purchase(d) your firearm(s)?

[ClearSightTactical]

Hey guys,

We're considering adding an FFL to our existing business at our existing office. We're thinking of starting off doing transfers, but have also toyed with the idea being a stocking dealer as well.

So, I wanted to see what the response was like in this thread about purchasing online or buying in store.

Please feel free to post any advice, or experience.

Again, we already own a business and have a leased office where both city zoning and the property owner will allow an FFL (checked with both). We're more interested in the transfers and maybe dabbling in used guns as new gun mark-up isn't exactly "worth it" IMO.

We already have the FFL packet, spoke with insurance agents regarding GL for the business, and aren't depending on this to pay our rent (to get all those responses out of the way). I've always loved firearms, and due to a recent experience receiving a firearm from an FFL I think we could do a much better job than the local transfer agents in town.

 

[santa]

i live in eastern washington state and am thinking about doing the same. it sounds like its something you really want to do so go for it. i think it would be fun. life is too short to look back and say "i wish i would have......." so i think its great. also if you live in a state that is permit unfriendly having a ffl might give you the 'good cause' to get a concealed weapon permit. by the way where are you located? i am also curious how you got the packet and how the process works. good luck with your new business.

 

[hiwall]

I thought about it. Did not like the idea that all employees that could transfer guns had to be fingerprinted. Also all doors and windows had to be barred. And the ATF could/would "visit" as often as they wanted. License fee and insurance cuts into profit. Plus alot of horror stories about entrapment etc. Made me decide NO. Good luck to you though.

 

[jlamb]

I research as much as possible online and then buy from a local store. I've found that the cheaper price you see online doesn't amount to much savings once you add in a transfer fee and/or shipping.

The stores I've bought from have all matched the online price + transfer fee for me, so I'm not saving any money other than tax. I'm happy to pay the tax to give my business to a local shop.

 

[S&WM&P40]

I research as much as possible online and then buy from a local store. I've found that the cheaper price you see online doesn't amount to much savings once you add in a transfer fee and/or shipping.

The stores I've bought from have all matched the online price + transfer fee for me, so I'm not saving any money other than tax. I'm happy to pay the tax to give my business to a local shop.

One of the local shops here does not charge a transfer fee no matter how many or how few firearms you have transfered. That is a huge plus in my book! They also do not low ball you when you sell your firearms another huge plus in my book. I reseach all of my gear online(not just firearms) youtube is a outstanding tool for this. I love seeing a the item I'm thinking about buying in action. I understand the smaller shops have to have higher prices to stay open but some times it sucks. Being charged 29.99 for a box of 20-25 rounds when I can get the same box(or a 50 round box of the same ammo) online for 15 to 20 dollars is nuts!

 

[ClearSightTactical]

i live in eastern washington state and am thinking about doing the same. it sounds like its something you really want to do so go for it. i think it would be fun. life is too short to look back and say "i wish i would have......." so i think its great. also if you live in a state that is permit unfriendly having a ffl might give you the 'good cause' to get a concealed weapon permit. by the way where are you located? i am also curious how you got the packet and how the process works. good luck with your new business.

I'm sending you a PM with some of the info i've learned.

I thought about it. Did not like the idea that all employees that could transfer guns had to be fingerprinted. Also all doors and windows had to be barred. And the ATF could/would "visit" as often as they wanted. License fee and insurance cuts into profit. Plus alot of horror stories about entrapment etc. Made me decide NO. Good luck to you though.

All employees do have to be "responsible persons" on the license, well not technically but per ATF anyone verifying the ID and conducting the transfer has to be on record with ATF. My prints are already in the system for professional licensing with my existing business.

Also, ATF is able to do one warrant-less inspection annually, any other time requires a warrant, they can of course request trace information per 4473 storage. Bars on windows and doors is also not the case. If someone comes to you and requests or offers a bribe to do something illegal, as a man of character you should say no.

The ATF is more than willing to educate dealers on how to avoid straw purchasers, what to do in case of an illegal bribe/kickback offer for transferring to a prohibited person, and field agents are all too happy to spend their time with you explaining the rules. When I called for a basic question regarding the packet the person I was speaking with spent over an hour on the phone with me explaining the process, and what's expected.

The licensing fee is only $200 Initial, and $90 per 3 years after. Insurance i've seen is about $800-$900 per year (ie: $75/MO) depending on limits of liability.

I'm not trying to argue with you as obviously I asked for your opinion, I'm just saying maybe if this is something you want to do you should revisit it, it really does look like a profitable, enjoyable business.

One of the local shops here does not charge a transfer fee no matter how many or how few firearms you have transfered. That is a huge plus in my book! They also do not low ball you when you sell your firearms another huge plus in my book. I reseach all of my gear online(not just firearms) youtube is a outstanding tool for this. I love seeing a the item I'm thinking about buying in action. I understand the smaller shops have to have higher prices to stay open but some times it sucks. Being charged 29.99 for a box of 20-25 rounds when I can get the same box(or a 50 round box of the same ammo) online for 15 to 20 dollars is nuts!

That's awesome about the transfer. I can understand the logic, they probably have so many people running guns through there that while the consumer is waiting on the transfer for their new toy they either find something to put on the "next time list" or pick up holsters, accessories, and ammo marking the mark up probably about 30% over a $15-25 transfer fee, smart move and something I am going to strongly consider should we proceed.

 

[Fitch]

I've purchased 17 guns in the last 5 years. I researched all the purchases online to decide "what" to get and "how much" I should pay. I bought 1 of the 15 from gunbroker and had it shipped to my LGS (where I bought 8 of the other 16) for the transfer which he handled for $25.00.

My LGS is more than fair on prices, trade in value, and customer service. I want him to be there.

Fitch

 

[ClearSightTactical]

I've purchased 17 guns in the last 5 years. I researched all the purchases online to decide "what" to get and "how much" I should pay. I bought 1 of the 15 from gunbroker and had it shipped to my LGS (where I bought 8 of the other 16) for the transfer which he handled for $25.00.

My LGS is more than fair on prices, trade in value, and customer service. I want him to be there.

Fitch

Awesome, this thread is pushing me more and more to accepting that we're going to have to become a stocking dealer if we plan to do much business.

 

[B2Tall]

You need to look at any local competition and try to gauge their buying power. A store that can go out and buy 1000 guns from manufacturers is going to get a much better wholesale price than a store that only has the resources to buy 50 or 100 at a time. As a result they can offer a much lower retail price to the public.

In other words, you don't want to open a small retail store just down the road from a Walmart.

 

[S&WM&P40]

I'm sending you a PM with some of the info i've learned.



All employees do have to be "responsible persons" on the license, well not technically but per ATF anyone verifying the ID and conducting the transfer has to be on record with ATF. My prints are already in the system for professional licensing with my existing business.

Also, ATF is able to do one warrant-less inspection annually, any other time requires a warrant, they can of course request trace information per 4473 storage. Bars on windows and doors is also not the case. If someone comes to you and requests or offers a bribe to do something illegal, as a man of character you should say no.

The ATF is more than willing to educate dealers on how to avoid straw purchasers, what to do in case of an illegal bribe/kickback offer for transferring to a prohibited person, and field agents are all too happy to spend their time with you explaining the rules. When I called for a basic question regarding the packet the person I was speaking with spent over an hour on the phone with me explaining the process, and what's expected.

The licensing fee is only $200 Initial, and $90 per 3 years after. Insurance i've seen is about $800-$900 per year (ie: $75/MO) depending on limits of liability.

I'm not trying to argue with you as obviously I asked for your opinion, I'm just saying maybe if this is something you want to do you should revisit it, it really does look like a profitable, enjoyable business.

That's awesome about the transfer. I can understand the logic, they probably have so many people running guns through there that while the consumer is waiting on the transfer for their new toy they either find something to put on the "next time list" or pick up holsters, accessories, and ammo marking the mark up probably about 30% over a $15-25 transfer fee, smart move and something I am going to strongly consider should we proceed

LOL, amazingly no. They are a really small gunshop/area gunsmith with vary little stock items other then about maybe 25-30 used long guns and about ten to 20 used handguns. They are older gentel men who seem to be passed the money stage in life and just like what they do. They don't sell holsters or anyother accesories other then trade ins. They order most of the guns and accesories people buy from them (other then the used ones). They have outstanding customer Service! They don't even charge to install night sights(unless drilling and taping is needed) then it's ten dollars a hole.

 

[kingofthedemo]

I research as much as possible online and then buy from a local store. I've found that the cheaper price you see online doesn't amount to much savings once you add in a transfer fee and/or shipping.

The stores I've bought from have all matched the online price + transfer fee for me, so I'm not saving any money other than tax. I'm happy to pay the tax to give my business to a local shop.

I always come out better buying online. If you are patient and look around Gunbroker and auctionarms you will find some killer deals, on new and used guns. The key is to snipe the absoltue auctions. Let me give you some examples of deals that I have got or seen on Gunbroker. My local shop only charges a $25 transfer and shipping is usually $15-$25 for a handgun, tax is going to run you that or more on a gun $500 or up.

New Sig P238 Stainless- $490 on GB/ $600-$750 in store with tax.



New AK-47- $340.00 (on GB) $450-$600 in store with tax


New H&K USP- $700-$800 on (GB) $1100 with tax in Bass pro shops

I could go on...

 

[jtg452]

Hey guys,

We're considering adding an FFL to our existing business at our existing office. We're thinking of starting off doing transfers, but have also toyed with the idea being a stocking dealer as well.

So, I wanted to see what the response was like in this thread about purchasing online or buying in store.

Please feel free to post any advice, or experience.

Again, we already own a business and have a leased office where both city zoning and the property owner will allow an FFL (checked with both). We're more interested in the transfers and maybe dabbling in used guns as new gun mark-up isn't exactly "worth it" IMO.

We already have the FFL packet, spoke with insurance agents regarding GL for the business, and aren't depending on this to pay our rent (to get all those responses out of the way). I've always loved firearms, and due to a recent experience receiving a firearm from an FFL I think we could do a much better job than the local transfer agents in town.

I'm old fashioned, I want to be able to touch and feel what I'm buying.

I'm quite leery of buying a 'pig in a poke' by doing internet transactions. That being said, I've never been screwed over when I've bought something online.

I've bought exactly 3 firearms over the internet. The first was an antique shotgun that I bought for a song (about 1/2 real value) from an auction house. It was a model that I'd been intrigued with for a couple years and the price was simply too good to pass up. The others were the exact same models of two guns I lost in burglary back in the late '90's. I knew what I was getting in those cases- aside from the actual condition of the particular gun- so research wasn't an issue.

Every other gun I own was purchased from a local dealer (aside from those that were inherited or gifts). I prefer to shop locally with independent shops because I feel I get superior service from them. Big box retail outfits are more focused on the bottom line and service is usually the first thing that suffers when that happens.

I figure that if I need something small and inexpensive like cleaning supplies or ammunition the local shop is always there for me, so when it comes time to spend more serious money I'm willing to give them the business as a way to repay them for being there. When gun shopping, if the local dealers have it in stock I'll buy it from them. If I know exactly what I want and they can order it, I'll buy it from them. If they can't get it and I'll find it on the internet and ship it in through them. No matter which way it goes, I'm supporting the local businesses to the greatest extent I can.

Don't get me wrong, I DO pay attention to prices and current market trends. I'm not going to get stuck with paying MSRP on a gun when the market price is far less. Trying to rip me off is a good way to guarantee that I'll never darken your door again. You gotta make a profit to stay in business, but there is such a thing as making too much on a transaction.

It's not that I don't want them to make money. A small business has to make a profit to keep the doors open. It's not that I don't want them to make a lot of money. I'm as big a capitalist as any on Wall Street. I don't even care if they make a lot of money all at one time. I just ain't gonna let them make a lot of money, all at one time and all off me.

 

[Raidenko]

I'm sending you a PM with some of the info i've learned.



All employees do have to be "responsible persons" on the license, well not technically but per ATF anyone verifying the ID and conducting the transfer has to be on record with ATF. My prints are already in the system for professional licensing with my existing business.

Also, ATF is able to do one warrant-less inspection annually, any other time requires a warrant, they can of course request trace information per 4473 storage. Bars on windows and doors is also not the case. If someone comes to you and requests or offers a bribe to do something illegal, as a man of character you should say no.

The ATF is more than willing to educate dealers on how to avoid straw purchasers, what to do in case of an illegal bribe/kickback offer for transferring to a prohibited person, and field agents are all too happy to spend their time with you explaining the rules. When I called for a basic question regarding the packet the person I was speaking with spent over an hour on the phone with me explaining the process, and what's expected.

The licensing fee is only $200 Initial, and $90 per 3 years after. Insurance i've seen is about $800-$900 per year (ie: $75/MO) depending on limits of liability.

I'm not trying to argue with you as obviously I asked for your opinion, I'm just saying maybe if this is something you want to do you should revisit it, it really does look like a profitable, enjoyable business.



That's awesome about the transfer. I can understand the logic, they probably have so many people running guns through there that while the consumer is waiting on the transfer for their new toy they either find something to put on the "next time list" or pick up holsters, accessories, and ammo marking the mark up probably about 30% over a $15-25 transfer fee, smart move and something I am going to strongly consider should we proceed.

I too am looking into doing this... I want to start with Transfers and consignment sales. If it works out like I think, then expand into new sales.

 

[ClearSightTactical]

Great responses everyone, it seems like many are there to support local business with a few that prefer online because of the cost savings. I'm strictly an online purchaser. I have been a dealer for Blackhawk, Crimson Trace, Lasermax, galco, safariland, and almost every other manufacturer of holsters, ammo, and anything firearms related for over a year. Having said that, I know wholesale pricing on most items "off the top of my head".

I can tell you, that in most shops i've been the markup on holsters is near 200-300% electronic accessories is approaching 400% new firearms are slim with about 30-50%.

The firearms community is very well educated thanks to publications such as "shotgun news" which publishes wholesale price lists.

I buy my accessories through my own company or if its something that I can't access (rare) i'll buy online. I'm all for supporting the local economy, BUT I'm not going to pay 200% more than online. Firearms I buy local due to various professional license discounts
otherwise i'd buy online.

I'm just a cheap SOB i guess?

 

[wjh2657]

I research everything on internet. I buy my new long guns at Walmart (only retailer in this area) and my handguns at my local gun shop. I have also bought several used long guns at the gun shop. In long guns I am a Mossberg, Marlin and Ruger kind of guy and you cannot beat Wally World's prices on those items.

 

[S&WM&P40]

Great responses everyone, it seems like many are there to support local business with a few that prefer online because of the cost savings. I'm strictly an online purchaser. I have been a dealer for Blackhawk, Crimson Trace, Lasermax, galco, safariland, and almost every other manufacturer of holsters, ammo, and anything firearms related for over a year. Having said that, I know wholesale pricing on most items "off the top of my head".

I can tell you, that in most shops i've been the markup on holsters is near 200-300% electronic accessories is approaching 400% new firearms are slim with about 30-50%.

The firearms community is very well educated thanks to publications such as "shotgun news" which publishes wholesale price lists.

I buy my accessories through my own company or if its something that I can't access (rare) i'll buy online. I'm all for supporting the local economy, BUT I'm not going to pay 200% more than online. Firearms I buy local due to various professional license discounts
otherwise i'd buy online.

I'm just a cheap SOB i guess?

Yeah they do kinda like to bend you over and rape your wallet. I have no problem with them making a little extra money off me but a 200-300% mark up is NUTS! I think two of the main reasons why they have been getting away with it for so long is. Before the days of the internet and online gun stores the only way to get a firearm was a local mom and pop store. Second they know the customer has no idea what the dealer cost of the item really was. So they see no harm in jacking the price sky high and then claiming they need to make money. But with the boom of online discount gun stores more and more people are shopping online and saving the extra money. A local shop around here sells a 20-25 round box of JHP for 29.99. I can get the same box online for around 15.15 or for the local price of 25 rounds I can get a 50 round box of the same ammo online.

 

[Treo]

Private sale

 

[S&W645]

Another thing you might look into is being a Class 3 dealer. Doesn't hurt to get the local LE people on your side. More paperwork and such though.

Research online and buy local most of the time. Local dealers price items about the same as online plus FFL fee plus shipping. Local dealer had a S&W 4516-1 for less than the combiined fees.

 

[Blogengeezer]

Re: Local or Online purchase.
I look at the local available selection until I find what suits my conception of the 'tool' for my needs. The online research narrows down the field to what choices are local. If I find the online price is considerably less, it often works to have the local source involved in the actual horse trading negotiations. Shipping and handling are all to be figured in the total price. In my past experience, the final purchase was made locally. I have never been treated unfairly. Education is the secret to life's right decisions. Luck is rare, that's why they refer to it as.. Luck..

 

[Rotorflyr]

The majority of the time I see something that interests me (might be in a local, might be online or in a mag) and then research it. If I decide to make the purchase, usually I'll try and buy it local, but have also purchased on-line (at this point probably about a 60/40 split)