How Do I get the state of FL to understand?


bwoods1978

New member
This is my conversation with the "Florida Department Of Agriculture and Consumer Services, Licensing Division" trying to find out how I can use my curriculum as a basis to certifiy instructors like the NRA or FDLE would for conceal firearms permit courses.

First Message To The State Of Florida:

"I would like some information about how to certifiy my orginaztion "The National Firearms Safety & Tactics Association" to be able to certify instructors so they can teach courses for concealed firearms classes. Basically I want to be my own entity like the NRA or FDLE and be able to certify instructors like they can. Any information would help.



First Response I Got Back From Dep. Of Ag.

We do not license or regulate CW instructors or schools (organizations) they may wish to establish to give these classes.

May I suggest you contact a gun show or pawn shop to see if there is any information they may have?

Signed,
Not Posting

Second Letter To The First Repsonse From The FL Dep Of Ag.
" I think you misunderstood my question and I will admit that is my fault. I was in bit of a rush as I was writing it and reading back over the email I sent I can see it wasn't very clear.

I have started (or am about to start) "The National Firearms Safety & Tactics Association" I have been an instructor for a long time and have written a complete "Hand Gun Safety and Concealed Carry" curriculum. I want my association to be recognized by your licensing division as an acceptable organization to be able to certify instructors to teach our curriculum and it be acceptable by FL DEP OF AG LIC DIV.

In the "Concealed Weapon Or Firearm License Application Instructions And Chapter 790, Florida Statutes" (the hand book that is given with the conceal weapons packets) on page 2 Question 6 Item 3 It States:

"Completion of any firearms or safety course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services."

I want to know how I can get my association (National Firearms Safety & Tactics Association) and its curriculum to be accepted. In the end I would like it to say " ;utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services or The National Firearms Safety and Tactics Association.

I hope this clarifies the question and would really appreciate any help, advice or direction you can give me. As you can see a gun shop or gun show definitely would not be able to help me with this. Thanks again, I know you guys are really slammed busy over there and thanks for taking the time with me. If it is easier you can call me as well, I will provide the contact information under my signature.

Sincerely,

Brian A. Woods


The Second Response I Got To This E-Mail From The Same Person
"Yes, The NRA certifies instructors"

I gave up email, I guess I will have to call? Anyone have ANY suggestions on this at all? Is it me maybe, was my emails not very clear? I am dumbfounded

Any help would be appreciated.

-Brian
 

This is my conversation with the "Florida Department Of Agriculture and Consumer Services, Licensing Division" trying to find out how I can use my curriculum as a basis to certifiy instructors like the NRA or FDLE would for conceal firearms permit courses.

First Message To The State Of Florida:

"I would like some information about how to certifiy my orginaztion "The National Firearms Safety & Tactics Association" to be able to certify instructors so they can teach courses for concealed firearms classes. Basically I want to be my own entity like the NRA or FDLE and be able to certify instructors like they can. Any information would help.



First Response I Got Back From Dep. Of Ag.

We do not license or regulate CW instructors or schools (organizations) they may wish to establish to give these classes.

May I suggest you contact a gun show or pawn shop to see if there is any information they may have?

Signed,
Not Posting

Second Letter To The First Repsonse From The FL Dep Of Ag.
" I think you misunderstood my question and I will admit that is my fault. I was in bit of a rush as I was writing it and reading back over the email I sent I can see it wasn't very clear.

I have started (or am about to start) "The National Firearms Safety & Tactics Association" I have been an instructor for a long time and have written a complete "Hand Gun Safety and Concealed Carry" curriculum. I want my association to be recognized by your licensing division as an acceptable organization to be able to certify instructors to teach our curriculum and it be acceptable by FL DEP OF AG LIC DIV.

In the "Concealed Weapon Or Firearm License Application Instructions And Chapter 790, Florida Statutes" (the hand book that is given with the conceal weapons packets) on page 2 Question 6 Item 3 It States:

"Completion of any firearms or safety course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services."

I want to know how I can get my association (National Firearms Safety & Tactics Association) and its curriculum to be accepted. In the end I would like it to say " ;utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services or The National Firearms Safety and Tactics Association.

I hope this clarifies the question and would really appreciate any help, advice or direction you can give me. As you can see a gun shop or gun show definitely would not be able to help me with this. Thanks again, I know you guys are really slammed busy over there and thanks for taking the time with me. If it is easier you can call me as well, I will provide the contact information under my signature.

Sincerely,

Brian A. Woods


The Second Response I Got To This E-Mail From The Same Person
"Yes, The NRA certifies instructors"

I gave up email, I guess I will have to call? Anyone have ANY suggestions on this at all? Is it me maybe, was my emails not very clear? I am dumbfounded

Any help would be appreciated.

-Brian

First thing I'd do for something this significant is to write a letter, NOT and email. I'd attach the curriculum, and my CV detailing my qualifications to teach this material. I'd address it to the Secretary of the department so that someone with some authority will eventually see it.

Just my $0.02
 
The organizations qualified to certify instructors are listed in the actual statute. The only way to get added is to get a legislator to propose a bill adding you to the list.
 
Are you a state certified instructor?

If so, then you would qualify under Paragraph 7....no?

Yes, actually NRA certified, but I wanted my organazation to be recognized as a certifiable institution. Which is no small feet I definatley understand but I have the curriculum, videos everything designed by me and the expirience to back it. Just getting them to understandt hat lol
 
The organizations qualified to certify instructors are listed in the actual statute. The only way to get added is to get a legislator to propose a bill adding you to the list.

If that is what I have to do then I will. I appreciate what you are telling me and it makes sense, mainly because DEP OF AG had absolutley no friggin clue as to what I was trying to say and explains where they got their list from.

-Brian
 
First thing I'd do for something this significant is to write a letter, NOT and email. I'd attach the curriculum, and my CV detailing my qualifications to teach this material. I'd address it to the Secretary of the department so that someone with some authority will eventually see it.

Just my $0.02

Thats true that was actually going to be my next move. I just wanted to know if my question made any sense, atleast to firearms instructors, so I didn't think I was completely going out of my mind. The person that wrote me back is just the coordinator for public inquiries. But still, holy sh**. That last email i got left me totally dumb founded.

-Brian
 
You could also try to get the NRA on board. They might come up with a way to take your organization under their wing so you wouldn't have to get the law changed.
 
You could also try to get the NRA on board. They might come up with a way to take your organization under their wing so you wouldn't have to get the law changed.

If I read his post correctly he wants to use his own curriculum rather than the NRA curriculum to certify trainers. Of course I could be mistaken.

Here is the snippet of Florida statute that identifies who a licensee must have a certificate from:
790.06 (2)(h) Demonstrates competence with a firearm by any one of the following:
1. Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or a similar agency of another state;
2. Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;
3. Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services;
4. Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;
5. Presents evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or military service;
6. Is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state or a county or municipality of this state, unless such license has been revoked for cause; or
7. Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor;

You can find the full statute here: The Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate
 
The relevant portion of the statute seems to be this:

Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a ... firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by ... the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services;

So how does one become an "instructor certified by...the Department of Agriculture"?

The first place to look (if you can't get the Department of Agriculture to tell you) would be the regulations of the Department of Agriculture. You can start that search here: https://www.flrules.org/

I did a quick search for "firearms instructor" and found several references, one of which was this one:

11B-20.0013 Commission Instructor Certification Categories.

Except as otherwise provided in this rule section or by law, individuals who instruct training courses pursuant to Rule Chapter 11B-35, F.A.C., at or through a training school, shall be certified by the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission. The Commission offers the following categories of certification to instructor applicants:

(1) General Instructor Certification.
(2) High-Liability Instructor Certifications.
(a) Vehicle Operations Instructor Certification.
(b) Firearms Instructor Certification.
(c) Defensive Tactics Instructor Certification.
(d) First Aid Instructor Certification.
(3) Specialized Topics Instructor Certifications.
(a) Law Topics Instructor Certification.
(b) Speed Measurement Instructor Certification.
(c) Canine Team Instructor Certification.
(d) Breath Test Instructor Certification.

Rulemaking Authority 943.03(4), 943.12(1), 943.14(3) FS. Law Implemented 943.12(3), (9), 943.14(3) FS. History–New 7-29-01, Amended 11-5-02, 11-30-04, 3-21-07, 6-9-08.

So it appears that you need to make contact with the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission to find out how to obtain a "Firearms Instructor Certification"
 
Yes, actually NRA certified, but I wanted my organazation to be recognized as a certifiable institution. Which is no small feet I definatley understand but I have the curriculum, videos everything designed by me and the expirience to back it. Just getting them to understandt hat lol


I'm confused....If you are an NRA instructor...then your classes already qualify under paragraph 3.

Completion of any firearms or safety course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services.


Doesn't say it has to be NRA classes...just any class given by an NRA certified instructor. So if all of your instructors are NRA certified you're already covered.

Can you imagination what the paragraph would look like if they started to change it every couple of months to add more and more training organizations? :pleasantry:
 
I'm confused....If you are an NRA instructor...then your classes already qualify under paragraph 3.

Completion of any firearms or safety course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services.


Doesn't say it has to be NRA classes...just any class given by an NRA certified instructor. So if all of your instructors are NRA certified you're already covered.

Can you imagination what the paragraph would look like if they started to change it every couple of months to add more and more training organizations? :pleasantry:

That is my understanding. You won't get the wording changed as to the list of certifing agencies without paying more than it would be worth.
 
Why not teach NRA Basic Pistol? It's accepted for a non-resident permit. Is there a different training requirement for residents?
 
The relevant portion of the statute seems to be this:

Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a ... firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by ... the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services;

So how does one become an "instructor certified by...the Department of Agriculture"?

To be certified by the Department of Agriculture one must get a class "K" firearms instructors license. This license is the only one accepted to teach firearms training for contract Security.

493.6105 Initial application for license.

(6) In addition to the requirements outlined in subsection (3), an applicant for a Class "G" license shall satisfy minimum training criteria for firearms established by rule of the department, which training criteria shall include, but is not limited to, 28 hours of range and classroom training taught and administered by a Class "K" licensee; however, no more than 8 hours of such training shall consist of range training. If the applicant can show proof that he or she is an active law enforcement officer currently certified under the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission or has completed the training required for that certification within the last 12 months, or if the applicant submits one of the certificates specified in paragraph (7)(a), the department may waive the foregoing firearms training requirement.

(7) In addition to the requirements under subsection (3), an applicant for a Class "K" license shall:

(a) Submit one of the following certificates:

1. The Florida Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission Firearms Instructor's Certificate.

2. The National Rifle Association Police Firearms Instructor's Certificate.

3. The National Rifle Association Security Firearms Instructor's Certificate.

4. A Firearms Instructor's Certificate from a federal, state, county, or municipal police academy in this state recognized as such by the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission or by the Department of Education.

(b) Pay the fee for and pass an examination administered by the department which shall be based upon, but is not necessarily limited to, a firearms instruction manual provided by the department.
 
I would try the direct approach. Go to your buisiness licensing department and ask to apply for a firearms instruction school. If you have the business license and NRA certified instructors, you are good.
 
If you are not recognized by the legislature as a credible association/group/union/etc., you will be spinning your wheels forever, contact some politicians and sell them on your program. fastest way thru red tape. Good luck!
 
I agree with the above, you are fine if you are a certified NRA instructor. I think I know what you are trying to do here but that may be more hassle in the long run just advertise and teach.
 
Being NRA Certified is NOT going to get him automatic approval to teach INSTRUCTORS using HIS curriculum.

I noticed in section number 7 being "state certified" instructor it leaves it open to ANY STATE certified instructor.

It may be viable to find another state where the legislation is much more open to having YOUR curriculum accepted to qualifying instructors under State Certification and then you can PROVE that your Instructors are students who are State Certified from that particular state which would then be accepted in FL.

The classic and fastest alternative (one that I am contemplating) is to require all your instructors have NRA Basic Pistol so that there is no issue to begin with and the fact that SHERIFFS will have less issues verifying credentials when needed.

...then once they have qualified under NRA BPI standards you can at least be sure your going to be working with somewhat competent Instructors who are ready to be MOLDED into your particular curriculum vitae.

If you get them when they first become NRA BPI it will be easier to get them to the standards of your curriculum as they again are primarily getting the NRA certification to make it easier for Sheriff Credential Verification and meeting FL Instructor Standards.

Your course therefore becomes supplemental and what you want them to teach in lieu of the NRA curriculum.

Its a great way to get the job done because again you eliminate working with students who are not even competent to pass the NRA BPI course thus increasing productive teaching and also they can easily get Insurance coverage as well to cover their asses when Instructing.

The Insurance part is another key component outside of Sheriff Verifications and FL Standards being met that having them get the NRA BPI as a prerequisite to your course justifies.

It will also have a more distinct viewpoint that "once you get NRA BPI" certification THEN you can undergo "your" academies specific "XYS Instructor Course" and teach your curriculum.

You may even end up eliminating some of the replicating portions that may have been covered by NRA BPI so you can focus more time on live fire proficiency along with instructor skill sets.

Just a thought.
 
Damn...I think I just convinced myself to go ahead with this particular "course of action" as it really is going to be less hassle to do in ANY STATE and again eliminate ahead of time working with those who are not suited to Instruct.

Why not let the NRA weed out the first couple of layers of low potential instructors so that you better the chances of having instructors who are prepared to maintain the integrity of your school.

Bwoods...get in touch by email sometime!
 
My first thought was using NRA qualified instructors might set up a revolving door of your instructors opening their own schools. So, how did things end up? Are you up and running? Where are you located?
 

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
49,526
Messages
610,760
Members
74,962
Latest member
troydistro
Back
Top