hostage or not?

[TheAmericanGreed]

If you where in a store and saw someone suspicious and begin to follow him and your gut instinct was right, he had pulled a gun out and put it to a womans stomach and had enoungh concealment that it was hard to see. Now his back is facing you and you're armed. What do you do.

The questions that run through my mind are
1. can you shoot this man in the back?
2. Are there any other who might be carrying and see me as a BG if i pulled out my weapon.
3. Is this a hostage situation? apparently her life is now in dang
4. Apparently her life is now in danger now right? Can you shoot.

There are few more that goes through my mind just want to see if anyone thinks the way I do.

 

[BORN IN THE USA]

I would approach in a none threatening manner...

I would approach in a none threatening manner and ask if I could assist him in any way.

You see until he actually draws his weapon he is sizing up the situation
Looking for a reason to not do it or look for anyone that might challenge him.

I would approach him hoping I was wrong about him, but being prepared for the worse. The closer I can get to him the better because I can get in the way of him easily accessing his weapon if I can spot it under his clothing.

The best way would be to come from behind him and only announce yourself when you are close enough to him to take control of the suspect if need be.

You see you, a gun is only for if you are unable to neutralize him / her with less lethal means. Learn hand to hand combat and the art of war if you are serious about helping others vs seeking an opportunity for justifiable homicide.

The best line of deffense is make the perp feel like he won't be successful in achieving his goal.

 

[saige]

You see you, a gun is only for if you are unable to neutralize him / her with less lethal means. Learn hand to hand combat and the art of war if you are serious about helping others vs seeking an opportunity for justifiable homicide.

The best line of deffense is make the perp feel like he won't be successful in achieving his goal.

+++++++2

 

[Treo]

I would ask myself why some one would join usacarry and dump all these troll posts in one day

 

[kelcarry]

Gotta luv your answer TREO, even if we disagree sometimes. If these "what ifs" keep people up at night, I just do not know how they get thru the day. I am 69 and have never, never, never come close to anything remotely approaching anything that I read on these forums. Maybe I am lucky and maybe I am just smart and am always "watching" where I am and what I am doing but yada yada yada. My choice for owning has more to do with the original purpose of 2A and my own statement about this despicable federal government than my day to day activities

 

[S&WM&P40]

I would ask myself why some one would join usacarry and dump all these troll posts in one day

LOL. +2000:biggrin:

 

[S&WM&P40]

If you where in a store and saw someone suspicious and begin to follow him and your gut instinct was right, he had pulled a gun out and put it to a womans stomach and had enoungh concealment that it was hard to see. Now his back is facing you and you're armed. What do you do.

The questions that run through my mind are
1. can you shoot this man in the back?
2. Are there any other who might be carrying and see me as a BG if i pulled out my weapon.
3. Is this a hostage situation? apparently her life is now in dang
4. Apparently her life is now in danger now right? Can you shoot.

There are few more that goes through my mind just want to see if anyone thinks the way I do.

The first thing I would ask is WHY THE HELL ARE YOU FOLLOWING HIM? Are you Dick Tracy now? You are not a police officer! The best thing you can do is be a outstanding witness. Now if he started shooting everyone in the store then you should step in shot him. Why start a gun fight in the middle of a store and risk hurting or killing other people in the cross fire.

 

[bob16066]

Any time you Pull a Pistol

Any time you Pull a Pistol you will attract unwanted attention. So you MUST be absolutely CERTAIN it is necessary before you do so.

Keep in mind that Even if you are Right Law Enforcement IS going to Arrest you when they arrive.

No matter what happened all the arriving Officer sees is a dead or wounded body and a man who claims "It was self defense." Like they never heard that before. (Sarcasm).

If the damsel in distress backs up your story you might be okay. But keep in mind she may be confused and scared witless and point you out as the bad guy. It is even possible that she is an accomplice designed to flush you and me out!

It's not TV. There is no script. The good guys don't always win.

If he ALREADY has her at gunpoint your Pistol is very near worthless anyway.

Your best bet is to Cell 911 as soon as you suspect anything. But if you call 911 six times a month for a year and nothing develops you're gonna be tainted as CRAZY.

All I'm saying is pulling a pistol is not always the best choice. Your only real obligation is to not make things WORSE.

In the situation you described: NOTHING has happened YET.

I would flee the scene as discreetly as possible. Patting my pockets like I forgot my wallet and take up a position to observe with my phone ready to dial 911. If a hostage situation develops you are in a unique position to notify Law Enforcement as early as possible.

If its a Rob and go you are now in a position to stop the robber as he flees by yelling "Halt" and shooting him if it becomes necessary.

If his intention is to just shoot that poor woman you were never in a good position to stop him; but now you ARE in a good position to call for Medical help which just might be the difference between life and death.

The biggest point I'm trying to make is that just because you are carrying a hammer you shouldn't view Every problem as a nail!

 

[Edsworld]

The first thing I would ask is WHY THE HELL ARE YOU FOLLOWING HIM? Are you Dick Tracy now? You are not a police officer! The best thing you can do is be a outstanding witness. Now if he started shooting everyone in the store then you should step in shot him. Why start a gun fight in the middle of a store and risk hurting or killing other people in the cross fire.

Once he starts shooting, it's to late. You just let someone die. Hope you can live with that. I know I could'nt.

Outstanding witness. Yep, every night when you close your eyes you will witness it over and over. That is if you are human.

 

[S&WM&P40]

Once he starts shooting, it's to late. You just let someone die. Hope you can live with that. I know I couldn't.

Outstanding witness. Yep, every night when you close your eyes you will witness it over and over. That is if you are human.

Your right so by all means pull your firearm and start a gun fight in the middle of the store. Can you live with killing the lady he has held hostage and god knows how many other lives in the cross fire? If he has taken a hostage he is already desperate and willing to do anything to get what he wants. Lets throw another wrench into the works here shall we. How do you know the lady he has hostage is not his accomplice? You draw your firearm and engage him and the hostage turns out to be armed. Now it's two on one and you die and piss them off so bad they kill everyone in the store. Instead of being this hero you so desperately want to be your just the moron who got yourself and everyone else killed.

 

[Austin]

I would get out of there and give the police a good description when I called. The only way I would get involved is if they somehow made a threat to my family or my safety (blocked the only exit, started shooting randomly into the crowd, etc...)

Just because we carry does not meen that we took an oath to protect the public. My job when CC is to protect myself and my family and to be a good witness when I contact the police.

 

[Edsworld]

Your right so by all means pull your firearm and start a gun fight in the middle of the store. Can you live with killing the lady he has held hostage and god knows how many other lives in the cross fire? If he has taken a hostage he is already desperate and willing to do anything to get what he wants. Lets throw another wrench into the works here shall we. How do you know the lady he has hostage is not his accomplice? You draw your firearm and engage him and the hostage turns out to be armed. Now it's two on one and you die and piss them off so bad they kill everyone in the store. Instead of being this hero you so desperately want to be your just the moron who got yourself and everyone else killed.

Then call 911 and stand there and watch. You don't have to do anything. Other people are not your problem.

 

[S&WM&P40]

I would get out of there and give the police a good description when I called. The only way I would get involved is if they somehow made a threat to my family or my safety (blocked the only exit, started shooting randomly into the crowd, etc...)

Just because we carry does not meen that we took an oath to protect the public. My job when CC is to protect myself and my family and to be a good witness when I contact the police.

Outstanding mindset and reply +20!

 

[S&WM&P40]

Then call 911 and stand there and watch. You don't have to do anything. Other people are not your problem.

I would and I would leave the phone on and conceal it so the police would have ears on the inside. If and when the time came to use deadly force I would wait until he lets the hostage go. I would then tell the 911 dispatcher what I was going to do so I did not get shot by the police sharpshooters by mistake thinking I was a BG.

 

[Edsworld]

Never did I say I would start shooting.

But, I would do anything I could, Gun or no Gun, to prevent her or anyone else from being harmed. And that my friend is a fact. I will not stand by and watch someone get hurt.

If that bothers you I am sorry.

 

[Treo]

Once he starts shooting, it's to late. You just let someone die. Hope you can live with that. I know I could'nt.

Outstanding witness. Yep, every night when you close your eyes you will witness it over and over. That is if you are human.

Once you kill the wrong person it's too late. Yep, every night when you close your eyes you will witness it over and over. That is if you are human

If I took the OP's scenario even a little serious I'd have to ask myself "Do I have all the facts? " "Do I know what I'm seeing?"

If I knew for sure that what I was seeing (as described by the OP) was a hostage situation the only viable reponse I see is to put a round through the hostage taker's medulla oblongata and call it a day. Except I'm not Jack Bauer and I'm not sure I'm prepared to execute someone like that

Call me a rank yellow coward but if it's avoidable I'm not getting in it.

I don't have the facts, I don't have the immunity and unless happens right in front of me I probably won't have the time.

The very last thing we need is for CHP holders to get a reputation for, or the self image of, a bunch of vigilantes.

I have witnessed one crime ( that I wasn't participating in) in my life, and all I saw was a guy(the thief) run by me. If I intervene where do I draw the line? what if I see some one dealing drugs? Prostitution? What about a gang war? surely I should jump in on that right?

 

[TheAmericanGreed]

Ok I see that everyone is going to read to much into this. Yes the woman could even be his wife and he just wants her to go home, and now he uses force. It could be his daughter other whatever, accomplice. I know I'm not a LEO, got it. But if you arent going to help protect life and limb, what are you. Just a guy carrying a gun?

I think once you threatened someones life at that point he has present hmiself as a threat and now has put hiself in a different catergory whether or not he wanted to. I was trained to make a descision and act right or wrong i'll have to deal with what i did but if I feel that was the right thing to do and thought about it and did a heart check then I could careless about what the legal system thought I will be able to sleep better at night knowing I made my descision based on what I knew . Now I am not trying to justify homocide as some of you might say. I would look at the situation as it presents itself. If I am able to disarm him by other means than lethal I will. I'm pretty sure there are things in the store with reach and weight to overcome him or a simple tackle and getting free of the weapon from him, as did our "Heroe's" who stop the Arizona shooting when it presented itself.
I just get the vibe that some of you are selfish people who do not have the testical fortitude to do what is right when face with danger.And before you speak been there before maybe not in the civilian world which I could understand its different more to be concerned about, got it. I guess risking my life to protect another is my "will of fire". Thats probably why I joined the Army and applied for my local PD. Standing back waiting on the police while there is a scared women who doesnt know whether or not she is going home that night to see her kids, is not ok with me.

And if its his accomplice she can get the business too. thats why you practice with more than one silhouette. hammer and double tap drills. And i'm not goig to apologize to some people if they get offended and get butt hurt and I know some are just trying help out the CC person by not putting him in jail. And all advice is good advice until proven other wise. I take in what sounds plausible and throw out the B.S.
As new to this fourom I have learned much and greatly appreciate the insights from everyone Thanks and its a blessing to be part of this.

 

[TheAmericanGreed]

Don't worry, eventually they run out of ammo. :sarcastic:

Don't worry, eventually they run out of ammo. :sarcastic:

Honestly, I can think up of a thousand scenerios and all be different. But Im not going to post them all. Really I could stay up and read cases all over the U.S and see how they turned out there are over 100 cases with shootouts from police officers, individuals from CC and non CC, war crimes, etc.etc. I just want to see what people thought on here. I went through the threads and maybe I should have commented "Third Party Protection' by ringo then I could have saved a thread but it was mainly to see something in that specific situation. Maybe someone came across a case or experienced something similiar. I went through the threads and more than 50 of them consist of what if and can I do this. Now there are some with facts and true cases. The ones who do carry and hope that one maybe has shot his weapon before but it seems like majority of people here never had an experince to where they drew, shot and eliminate the threat,went through the court system and lived to tell it here. I guess they're all locked up. I have a personal freind before we deployed who shot someone in his house who was out numbered and hit one person with a .38 special in the side, and the court (the person he shot attorney) tried to make it seem like he shot his cleint while he wsa trying to flee. and the "cleint" was my freinds girlfriend, brother and she was there too. needless to say he won the court battle and all charges were dropped and he couldnt be sued civilly. so I have him as a personal reference. But I RESPECT what people have to say on here as well. And if youre going to critize that, then O well. Seems there is more fluffs than facts on this fourums any. few facts here in there. that all came directly from the book. But what good does that do without experince to back it up? I thought that was the whole point of this. But since I saw a lot of people posting what if's and what would you do in"his" situation type things i just thought I would put my two cents in. But apperantly you must be a member for awhile before you have that right, sorry didnt know that and didnt see it as one of the rules before you post.

He would tell me if he had to do it again he would but only maybe this time he would try harder to remove the threat before lethal force because the legal battle and the cost put a heavy toll on him especially before we deployed.

 

[TheAmericanGreed]

The first thing I would ask is WHY THE HELL ARE YOU FOLLOWING HIM? Are you Dick Tracy now? You are not a police officer! The best thing you can do is be a outstanding witness. Now if he started shooting everyone in the store then you should step in shot him. Why start a gun fight in the middle of a store and risk hurting or killing other people in the cross fire.

How would you be a witness to something you didnt see. Unless your superman, how else are you going to know somethings up. I bet your that individual to tuck tail and run when you see a woman getting the S**t beat out of her. In your mind, probably thinking she probably deserves.Im not saying shot the dude but say something.

 

[kelcarry]

Alter Ego or the Third Party Rule is understandable but, IMO, extremely difficult to be sure of and extremely difficult to embrace because, among other things, it does not involve you in any way shape or form before you decide to intercede. You just get the impression from this and other threads that some members just cannot wait to use their CCW even if it does not involve them and, in some cases, cannot wait to use their CCW even if it does but may not be an imminent threat at the time of presentation or use. It is easy to write on this forum and I would hope that a lot of what I read is just Dirty Harry talk; it would bother me to know that some of you are all ready to cure the world with your firearm.