Hospital Carry

[Palmach]

I have not been on the forum for a few days. as my Mom had surgery this week.

I had to drive down to South Florida to visit. When I went with her on Wed. morning for pre-op I noticed the very clear signs on the hospital doors stating "No Firearms"

As a proponent of concealed is concealed I proceeded in with her and had no problems. However, I decided to do some further research and came to find out that the hospitals use another Florida statute regarding mental health facilities to impose this ban. They state that since a portion of their every day business is mental health patients, that this statute applies to them.

They are not listed as a restricted facility according to Florida 790, which governs CWL's, however there have been no test cases that received an appellate decision. The only case I know of is someone who was arrested in a hospital and the lawyer argued that according to Florida 394 his client was authorized by law as a result of his legally issued CWL. The State Attorney agreed and decided not to prosecute.

394.458 Introduction or removal of certain articles unlawful; penalty.--

(1)(a) Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:

1. Any intoxicating beverage or beverage which causes or may cause an intoxicating effect;

2. Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or

3. Any firearms or deadly weapon.

Rather than cause trouble at the hospital and possibly be barred from seeing my Mom, I chose to disarm for the two days I was visiting her, but I was not happy about it.

I wonder what others think and if you have any of your own experiences in this area?

 

[Canis-Lupus]

Weapons in Hospitals food 4 thought.

In general Palmach hospitals are no-carry zones from my experiences in or serving many all over various states. LEO's with pistols, Mace, tasers, etc., are a given, so is their hospital security, but few hospitals will notice or even bother about a weapon TOTALLY concealed from any sight, unless you pass thru a metal detector 'beep' GOTCHA!The problem is not getting a weapon into a hospital, it starts when U fear enough for your life, or the lives of others, that U pull, point and shoot a very dangerous person say charging at you with a scalpel in their hand. So you do drop the BG/patient. I would expect that you will still be charged for bringing a weapon into a medical treatment facility even if it helped stop a carnage. If it's a federal-run hospital you just lost out big time. You posted a good question I ask myself with every trip I make to the V.A., and I defer to going inside clean. In 20 years of being a medic I prolly spent 7 of them in fixed hospitals all E.R.'s so I don't have much ward/out-patient clinic experience, BUT I do have a lot of stories to tell about patients and visitors who brought weapons into them, none of them ended happily.
Do as you see fit but if you need to use that weapon, oh well I hope it turns out better than jail 4 you, even if your actions saved others lives.
Please post again without self-incriminating yourself about this subject if you feel like it, your answers will be read by our patrons & may answer their CCW/hospital concerns. One area of any hospital I know is no weapons period is their E.R.'s because they DO treat psychologically distressed patients daily and that alone makes for a gun-free, weapons free environment, health & safety laws per the state is the only way to dig deeper into the subject or a call to the hospital admin office in advance to check on their rules could cost save you a lot of grief.
Thanks for posting.

Canis-Lupus

 

[HK4U]

Do not know about other states but in Texas the answer is kind of yes and no. Here it is one of the places that are off limits to CHL holders however the hospital has to post the "official state mandated " sign at all exits. Just putting up a sign they says no guns allowed does not cut it. I have seen hospitals that have the proper sign but I know of one that I have been in a number of times that has signs that simply say no weapons allowed in hospital. So when I have to go in there I have my hand gun on me but out of site and out of mind so to speak.

 

[Glock Fan]

This is an excellent reason for me to encourage my friends and family to stay healthy so none of us have to be anywhere near a hospital any more than necessary.


gf

 

[mom of 3 angels]

In Utah, hospitals are not included in the prohibited areas for carry. We do have a chain of hospitals including our children's hospital that has notices on the doors that "you are entering a place of healing, no weapons allowed" or something to that effect. I have carried into these hospitals and even spent the night with my daughter once as the signs do not make it the law here. If someone found out I had my firearm with me, they could ask me to leave, but it would almost certainly have to be a pull, point, shoot situation for anyone to even know I was armed. Concealed is concealed.

 

[tattedupboy]

Do not know about other states but in Texas the answer is kind of yes and no. Here it is one of the places that are off limits to CHL holders however the hospital has to post the "official state mandated " sign at all exits. Just putting up a sign they says no guns allowed does not cut it. I have seen hospitals that have the proper sign but I know of one that I have been in a number of times that has signs that simply say no weapons allowed in hospital. So when I have to go in there I have my hand gun on me but out of site and out of mind so to speak.

Are you referring to the 30.06 sign, which says:



"PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."

"CONFORME A LA SECCIÓN 30.06 DEL CÔDIGO PENAL (TRASPASAR PORTANDO ARMAS DE FUEGO) PERSONAS CON LICENCIA BAJO DEL SUB-CAPITULO H, CAPITULO 411, CODIGO DE GOBIERNO (LEY DE PORTAR ARMAS), NO DEBEN ENTRAR A ESTA PROPIEDAD PORTANDO UN ARMA DE FUEGO."


Here in Indiana, no such prohibition exists under the law, and here in Northwest Indiana, hospital security is unarmed. The entrances are posted, but I ignore them.

 

[toreskha]

The problem is not getting a weapon into a hospital, it starts when U fear enough for your life, or the lives of others, that U pull, point and shoot a very dangerous person say charging at you with a scalpel in their hand. So you do drop the BG/patient. I would expect that you will still be charged for bringing a weapon into a medical treatment facility even if it helped stop a carnage. If it's a federal-run hospital you just lost out big time.

It's very unfortunate that saving the entire ER ward from a mass shooting could quite possibly result in oneself ending up in jail. One day, someone carrying in a GFZ is going to end a high-profile VTech or Columbine incident, and people will see just how stupid the whole thing is.

 

[gvaldeg1]

Canis Lupus...kudos for the excellent advice! It is very well thought out and explained.

 

[PascalFleischman]

The hospitals I've been to in Memphis have varying rules. The hospital where my doctor practices has HUGE signs out in the parking lot "PURSUANT TO TN CODE........", so I don't carry in there. I just love answering questions to nurses and the doctor as to why I have an empty holster.

However, another hospital just has the Gunbuster sign. I ignore it.

 

[HK4U]

Are you referring to the 30.06 sign, which says:



"PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."

"CONFORME A LA SECCIÓN 30.06 DEL CÔDIGO PENAL (TRASPASAR PORTANDO ARMAS DE FUEGO) PERSONAS CON LICENCIA BAJO DEL SUB-CAPITULO H, CAPITULO 411, CODIGO DE GOBIERNO (LEY DE PORTAR ARMAS), NO DEBEN ENTRAR A ESTA PROPIEDAD PORTANDO UN ARMA DE FUEGO."


Here in Indiana, no such prohibition exists under the law, and here in Northwest Indiana, hospital security is unarmed. The entrances are posted, but I ignore them.

Exactly. It has to be that sign both in English and Spanish, the proscribed size.

 

[tattedupboy]

Exactly. It has to be that sign both in English and Spanish, the proscribed size.

I've heard varying opinions on this, but is it true that if the letters are smaller than prescribed by law, then the sign is null and void?

 

[HK4U]

I've heard varying opinions on this, but is it true that if the letters are smaller than prescribed by law, then the sign is null and void?

According to what the state teaches the instructors to teach the CHL students yes.

 

[tattedupboy]

According to what the state teaches the instructors to teach the CHL students yes.

Ok. How vigorously is the size requirement enforced? For example, if a place is posted with the 30.06 sign but the letters are negligibly smaller than prescribed by law, then historically, who have the courts sided with? Has it even been tested?

 

[kwo51]

If they bring me in feet first and have not checked my pockets to bad. I could not read the sign I was out of it.

 

[HK4U]

Ok. How vigorously is the size requirement enforced? For example, if a place is posted with the 30.06 sign but the letters are negligibly smaller than prescribed by law, then historically, who have the courts sided with? Has it even been tested?

If it has ever been tested I do not know. Sense most of the time if a sign is not "official" most people just ignore it and enter with their weapon concealed no one would ever know anyway. Usually that is not the issue anyway. All of the times that I have seen the wrong sign it has been way off from the official sign so there was no mistaken it.

 

[snowman]

Wow if it says no guns just stick in in the glove box what's the big deal, you don't need your weapon every second of your life do you?
why fight it so much lots of states you can't even carry or have a gun in your possession, enjoy carrying when you can, which is most places
even some saloons and towns of western days didn't allow carry of any kind, you will make in to visit your sick relatives and back to the car to carry again

 

[tattedupboy]

Wow if it says no guns just stick in in the glove box what's the big deal, you don't need your weapon every second of your life do you?
why fight it so much lots of states you can't even carry or have a gun in your possession, enjoy carrying when you can, which is most places
even some saloons and towns of western days didn't allow carry of any kind, you will make in to visit your sick relatives and back to the car to carry again

A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms; shall not be infringed.

Need I say more? For the record, I carry religiously outside the home, and keep one nearby (but not on my person) when I'm at home. I have indeed accepted that I cannot be armed every single second of every day, nor do I want to be, but the good citizens on this board are neither willing nor inclined to be victims, so if they want to be armed every second of every day, what's wrong with that, as long as they're not abusing that right (ie., out committing crimes)?

 

[Glock Fan]

Wow if it says no guns just stick in in the glove box what's the big deal, you don't need your weapon every second of your life do you?
why fight it so much lots of states you can't even carry or have a gun in your possession, enjoy carrying when you can, which is most places
even some saloons and towns of western days didn't allow carry of any kind, you will make in to visit your sick relatives and back to the car to carry again

The "big deal" is that if we allow folks to start taking our freedoms by simply rolling over and complying with a sign without fighting for what we believe in, we'll slowly but surely end up losing our rights. It's bad enough that we need a license or permit in most jurisdictions were we're allowed o carry. We don't need our rights to be infringed upon any more than they already are.



gf

 

[dancingwolf]

Here in NY, hospitals aren't on the state's list of places where you are prohibited from carrying - it's just a "private property" issue. If found carrying, they have the right to ask you to leave your firearm outside the building or leave, but you don't have the right to ignore their request and stay within the building armed.

You can either choose to respect their right to not allow you to be armed and so leave your weapon in your vehicle, or you can carry CONCEALED within the building and take your chances.

 

[HK4U]

Wow if it says no guns just stick in in the glove box what's the big deal, you don't need your weapon every second of your life do you?
why fight it so much lots of states you can't even carry or have a gun in your possession, enjoy carrying when you can, which is most places
even some saloons and towns of western days didn't allow carry of any kind, you will make in to visit your sick relatives and back to the car to carry again

I may not need it every second but unless you are clairvoint I doubt that you can predict when you will need it. I can't so I carry everywhere all the time. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. As far as states that do not allow guns at all that is one of the reasons I do not live in those states.