Homeschooling Banned in California


HK4U

New member
Well we all know the government can teach our kids better than us. Just look at the fine job it has done in other areas. We can all rest easy knowing that Big Brother is looking after our best interests. After all it takes a village to raise our children right?

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Homeschooling Banned in California as State Turns Parents Into Criminals for Teaching Their Own Children

David Gutierrez
Natural News
Tuesday, September 23, 2008

(NaturalNews) A California appeals court has ruled that homeschooling of children is illegal unless their parents have teaching credentials from the state.

“California is now on the path to being the only state to deny the vast majority of homeschooling parents their fundamental right to teach their own children at home,” said Michael Smith, president of the Home School Legal Defense Association.

The court overturned a lower court’s finding that homeschooling did not constitute a violation of child welfare laws.

“California courts have held that … parents do not have a constitutional right to homeschool their children,” Justice H. Walter Croskey said.

The decision stunned parents of the state’s roughly 166,000 homeschooled children. While the court claimed that it was merely clarifying an existing law and not making a new one, the decision leaves the parents of homeschooled children at risk of arrest and criminal prosecution.

“At first, there was a sense of, ‘No way,’ ” homeschool parent Loren Mavromati said. “Then there was a little bit of fear. I think it has moved now into indignation.”

Parents’ reasons for homeschooling their children range from religious beliefs to dissatisfaction with the education received at public or private schools. But according to the court, all California children between the ages of 6 and 18 must attend either a full-time public or private school or be taught by a tutor credentialed for their specific grade level.

“A primary purpose of the educational system is to train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the nation,” Croskey wrote.

California’s largest teachers union welcomed the decision as did the Children’s Law Center of Los Angeles.

According to the law center’s executive director, Leslie Heimov, children should not be educated at home, because they need to be “in a place daily where they would be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety.”
 

tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
would some one just hurry up and make california it's own communist country.

And take away 55 electoral votes from the Democrats? Surely you jest!

Seriously, my jaw dropped wide open when I saw the title of this thread. Nevertheless, I always knew that if any state would ever ban homeschooling, it would be a people's republic, such as PRCA, PRNY, or PRIL. Hopefully, the state Supreme Court will be asked to make a ruling on this, in favor of parents. I say the State Supreme Court, and not the U.S. Supreme Court, because education is not within the domain of the federal government (which is why No Child Left Behind needs to be repealed or struck down), but a state issue.
 

festus

God Bless Our Troops!!!
Kalifornication

And take away 55 electoral votes from the Democrats? Surely you jest!

Seriously, my jaw dropped wide open when I saw the title of this thread. Nevertheless, I always knew that if any state would ever ban homeschooling, it would be a people's republic, such as PRCA, PRNY, or PRIL. Hopefully, the state Supreme Court will be asked to make a ruling on this, in favor of parents. I say the State Supreme Court, and not the U.S. Supreme Court, because education is not within the domain of the federal government (which is why No Child Left Behind needs to be repealed or struck down), but a state issue.

Let the tree huggers and granola crunchers make their own Utopia...Seriously this is a very bad move for those of us that homeschool, even if we live in other states. The Left Coast needs to be set adrift and then we can be free of the limp wristed, quiche eating, birkenstock wearing, treehugging, granola crunching, self righteous do-gooders.
 

tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
Let the tree huggers and granola crunchers make their own Utopia...Seriously this is a very bad move for those of us that homeschool, even if we live in other states. The Left Coast needs to be set adrift and then we can be free of the limp wristed, quiche eating, birkenstock wearing, treehugging, granola crunching, self righteous do-gooders.

Much better than my idea of respecting parents' rights. Seriously, though, if they can take away a parent's right to decide where their child can get an education, then what will be next, a ban on private school education?
 

toreskha

Titles are un-American.
According to the law center’s executive director, Leslie Heimov, children should not be educated at home, because they need to be “in a place daily where they would be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety.”
Wow...what a great big "f*ck you" that is to parents. Why didn't they just run a full-page newspaper ad giving everyone the middle finger and be done with it? These people have no respect whatsoever for the family. Were they raised by ogres in a barn?
 

HK4U

New member
Wow...what a great big "f*ck you" that is to parents. Why didn't they just run a full-page newspaper ad giving everyone the middle finger and be done with it? These people have no respect whatsoever for the family. Were they raised by ogres in a barn?

And who will keep them safe from the state?
 

toreskha

Titles are un-American.
Here's a big article on this ruling...very interesting reading.

Apparently there are some guidelines that parents can adhere to and still be within the law...
In order to fully understand the implications of this decision, you must first grasp California education requirements. According to the California Homeschool Network there are four options for home-school education in California. They are: “establishing your own home-based private school, enrolling in a private school that offers independent study, using a public school independent study program (ISP) or charter school that caters to homeschoolers, or, if you have a credential, using the tutorial option.” 4

Arnold has apparently given his support to homeschoolers...
“Parents should not be penalized for acting in the best interests of their children’s education,’ Schwarzenegger said. ‘This outrageous ruling must be overturned by the courts, and if the courts don’t protect parents’ rights then, as elected officials, we will.’” 8

It sounds like the "teaching credentials" are required if you start your own private school - or you can sign up to be under an umbrella program with a private or charter school that "caters to homeschoolers" and still be legal.

I still find Leslie Heimov's comments to be incredibly stupid though.
 

FN1910

New member
Home schooling and Private shools have their place and should not be banned but there should be some "control" for lack of a better word, on them. My wife teaches second grade in a public school and she tells some horror stories about some kids who have "fell thorough the cracks". I have several friends and relatives that home shcooled their children and did a great job. I can't say that in any case they did better than the public schools but that was their choice.

My wife has a little boy in her class that went to a private church school for the last two years. His mother came in last week to discuss him and with tears in her eyes told my wife that she had done mor with him in one week that the private school had done in two years. She said that she did not want her son to be labled as special ed and placed in the special ed classes. My wife told her that she already realized that the boy has a learning disability and need to attend some special ed classes but not placed in the program full time. The mother was greatly relieved. The methods that they were using in the private school were causing more harm than doing good.

This demonstrates one of the problems with the home and private schools if that they work great for the average student but for those with LD or Exceptional Talent the public schools are much more equipted to help those students. Very few parents are able to handle any child with anything other than the average training that they had in school.
 

HK4U

New member
You can find bad examples of anything if you look hard enough. I can tell you plenty of horror stories out of the public schools. We home schooled our daughter all the way through grade 12. We were in a home school association that meet at our church. We got together for a lot of field trips. Ever other year testing was offered for everyone in the association to see how the children were doing. My daughter and most others tested well above the actual school year they were in on a consistent basis. In fact we would often tell people that the difference between home school and public was that our daughter in the 4th grade tested on at a 8th grade level in most subjects where the public school in the 8th grade tested on a 4th grade level. I am not saying that there are not good teachers in public schools however they are still hampered by the left, liberal teachers union. My daughter graduated without having evolution crammed down her. If someone wants believe that way that is their business. We do not. She got a sound christian education along with a better education in in the three r's so to speak. She has sense graduated from college with a grade point average of over 3.80 and is in her last semester of her masters program with a 4.0 average.
 

FN1910

New member
You can find good and bad schools in every category. My mother was the Guidance Counselor at a public high school for many years. Part of her job was to evealuate the students transferring in from other schools. What she found was that the majority of students transferring in from private shools were about one year ahead of the public school students in language arts and one year behind in math.

My tow oldest daughters attended public high schools and both now have their Masters. One graduated Summa Cum Laude from her college for her BS and had a 4.0 for her Masters studies. My other one just finished her MBA specializing in International Business and has been asked to be the National President of her business association.

My third daughter is a junior in college and should graduate ahead of time. As I said I have lots of friends and relatives that have either home schooled or sent their children to private schools. My Mother taught for 45 years in both Private and Public schools along with colleges. My wife has taught for 35 years in public schools. In my neighborhood it is about 35% of the kids go to "exclusinve" priveate schools. It is a matter of personal preference but I have yet to find where one turns out better students or citizens than the other. I can show you example after example of one or the other but this BS about home school student is 4 years ahead of public school students doesn't hold water when actual facts are presented.

In SC public schools are required to accept home schooled students for science classes beause so few parents that were trying to home school had either the background or facilities to teach their students science. Many parents around here will home school their kinds for math or reading but send them to the public schools for science classes even though the science classes may teach that evolution could have happened and that the universe may be more than 7,000 years old.
 
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HK4U

New member
You can find good and bad schools in every category. My mother was the Guidance Counselor at a public high school for many years. Part of her job was to evealuate the students transferring in from other schools. What she found was that the majority of students transferring in from private shools were about one year ahead of the public school students in language arts and one year behind in math.

My tow oldest daughters attended public high schools and both now have their Masters. One graduated Summa Cum Laude from her college for her BS and had a 4.0 for her Masters studies. My other one just finished her MBA specializing in International Business and has been asked to be the National President of her business association.

My third daughter is a junior in college and should graduate ahead of time. As I said I have lots of friends and relatives that have either home schooled or sent their children to private schools. My Mother taught for 45 years in both Private and Public schools along with colleges. My wife has taught for 35 years in public schools. In my neighborhood it is about 35% of the kids go to "exclusinve" priveate schools. It is a matter of personal preference but I have yet to find where one turns out better students or citizens than the other. I can show you example after example of one or the other but this BS about home school student is 4 years ahead of public school students doesn't hold water when actual facts are presented.

In SC public schools are required to accept home schooled students for science classes beause so few parents that were trying to home school had either the background or facilities to teach their students science. Many parents around here will home school their kinds for math or reading but send them to the public schools for science classes even though the science classes may teach that evolution could have happened and that the universe may be more than 7,000 years old.


Our daughter also went to an outside science class but it was a teacher that was a Christian that had a couple degrees in the sciences. He provided the classes for home school families. We also got my daughter involved in a speech class that was taught by a lady in our church. She was a member of toast Masters. There was plenty of opportunity for extracurricular classes for homeschoolers if the parents wanted to get them involved. Another plus for Home schooling is the children do not have the peer pressure that they would in public schools. About being ahead of public schools I do not know what happens other places but I do know that in our association all the children tested ahead of the average for public school. Most of the moms that taught, I say moms because they did most of the teaching, had no formal education in that field. In fact my wife and many others only had high school education. You see a loving dedicated parent teaching one on one or two or three or however many kids they have can do more in less time than a teacher in an over crowded class room with a lot of interruptions. I am also convinced that public schools today are one of the most dangerous places kids go.
 

FN1910

New member
outside science class but it was a teacher that was a Christian

Every science teacher that I have ever had and that includes college was a Christian. They may not meet you narrow view of what a Christian is but I really don't want my children hanging around with someone with a view that narrow. I grew up as a Christian, have always been a Christian and all of a family are Christians. When I was in school there was not a single person in that entire school that was not a Chistian. In fact until I went to college I personally knew of only one person that was Jewish. If your attitude is that you are not a Christian becasue you are a Science teacher then I really feel for you and your religion what ever it is becasue it isn't Christian.
 

kwo51

New member
train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state What about teaching them to read write and math. The school is not supposed to be an exchange agent.Sounds like these judge on the appeal is a nazi.:alcoholic:
 

HK4U

New member


Every science teacher that I have ever had and that includes college was a Christian. They may not meet you narrow view of what a Christian is but I really don't want my children hanging around with someone with a view that narrow. I grew up as a Christian, have always been a Christian and all of a family are Christians. When I was in school there was not a single person in that entire school that was not a Chistian. In fact until I went to college I personally knew of only one person that was Jewish. If your attitude is that you are not a Christian becasue you are a Science teacher then I really feel for you and your religion what ever it is becasue it isn't Christian.

I think you are reading into what I said what you want to believe I said instead of what I did say. I did not say anywhere that being a science teacher means you are not a Christian. There are in fact plenty of scientists that do not believe in evolution, that are Christians and hold a Biblical view. There are also however science teachers and other teachers that are not Christians that teach in public school. That is a fact. By choosing to home school parents have control over what type of world view their children are exposed to. That is just one of the many reasons we chose home schooling. I really do not care where you send your children to school. This is America and you are free to choose. I do resent greatly the government either federal or state telling me how to educate my kids. I have not seen the government do a very good job of anything else so why would I want to relinquish my God given rights to a bunch of bureaucrats. Unlike Hillbillery I do not think "It takes a village". As far as your statement of everyone in you school being a Christian then perhaps you went to a phenomenal school because I doubt there is another in the world where everyone is a Christian. They may go to church on Sunday but actually all of them being Christians I would doubt it because them being in church does not make one a Christian any more that a mouse getting in a cookie jar makes it a cookie.
 
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tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
You can find good and bad schools in every category. My mother was the Guidance Counselor at a public high school for many years. Part of her job was to evealuate the students transferring in from other schools. What she found was that the majority of students transferring in from private shools were about one year ahead of the public school students in language arts and one year behind in math.

My tow oldest daughters attended public high schools and both now have their Masters. One graduated Summa Cum Laude from her college for her BS and had a 4.0 for her Masters studies. My other one just finished her MBA specializing in International Business and has been asked to be the National President of her business association.

My third daughter is a junior in college and should graduate ahead of time. As I said I have lots of friends and relatives that have either home schooled or sent their children to private schools. My Mother taught for 45 years in both Private and Public schools along with colleges. My wife has taught for 35 years in public schools. In my neighborhood it is about 35% of the kids go to "exclusinve" priveate schools. It is a matter of personal preference but I have yet to find where one turns out better students or citizens than the other. I can show you example after example of one or the other but this BS about home school student is 4 years ahead of public school students doesn't hold water when actual facts are presented.

In SC public schools are required to accept home schooled students for science classes beause so few parents that were trying to home school had either the background or facilities to teach their students science. Many parents around here will home school their kinds for math or reading but send them to the public schools for science classes even though the science classes may teach that evolution could have happened and that the universe may be more than 7,000 years old.

I think the debate isn't so much whether public school students are better prepared for higher education or for life than homeschooled students. The debate is whether parents have the right to decide which is the best for their children, and in determining that homeschooling is illegal, the state of California has taken that away from them.

As for how old the universe is, the fossil record couldn't be clearer. The earth is several billion years old, not 7,000.
 

HK4U

New member
I think the debate isn't so much whether public school students are better prepared for higher education or for life than homeschooled students. The debate is whether parents have the right to decide which is the best for their children, and in determining that homeschooling is illegal, the state of California has taken that away from them.

As for how old the universe is, the fossil record couldn't be clearer. The earth is several billion years old, not 7,000.


If a fair maiden kisses a frog which instantly changes into a handsome prince we would call it a fairy tale. But if the frog takes 40 million years to turn into a prince we call it evolution.
 

kwo51

New member
My oldest is a lawyer and was home schooled. When 50% of the kids drop out or fail why should we support the government schools? Anything the gov does cost more and fails, time to let free market prevail. The free market must be run by fair and prudent persons..:bad:
 

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