Home Defense
- Thread starter DRNurse1
- Start date
Federal slug 1.25 oz at 1600 fps, 3109 ft lbs energy
9mm 124 gr at 1280 fps, 383 ft lbs energy.
You are missing the point that I was trying to make, pick what ever numbers you like.
A 12 ga slug has 8.1 times the energy of a 9mm.
This is why a shotgun is a good home defense gun.
9mm 124 gr at 1280 fps, 383 ft lbs energy.
You are missing the point that I was trying to make, pick what ever numbers you like.
A 12 ga slug has 8.1 times the energy of a 9mm.
This is why a shotgun is a good home defense gun.
CharlesMorrison
Banned
What 9mm round are you getting 510fpe with? Seems a heck of a lot of FPE for a nine..
The list above your post came from a web based ballistic program, I clicked on 9mm and that was a standard load listed.
The one you listed came from a web search, I do not know the source.
YOU missed the point of the post. A 12 slug has about 8 times more energy than a 9mm.
CharlesMorrison
Banned
Sorry but I don't see the list. You are correct that a 12gauge is best though!
bs, a 3" magnum maybe, and 382 ft lbs is a LONG ways from 500-600ft lbs, which CAN be attained by the 4" 9mm, if you know how. 
The 223 softpoint does a FINE job on men, even at 100 yds, from an M4, 60 grs at 2500fps out there. The 9x23 Win can get that sort of ballistics, from a 5" barrel, at pistol fight distances, and the .45 ACP can do even better, given cut down 460 Rowland Brass, a fully supported barrel, a solid aluminum hp, bullet, with a big cnnical hollowbase and the bullet being split lengthwise, almost full length, so that it breaks into 2 pcs at impact with flesh. 2 BIG, long, sharp cornered, hard, unstable, tumbling chunks of metal, hitting the man, 35 grs each, at 2300 fps. Now that is a mean blow, yet it has no more recoil than 230 grs at 700 fps, ie, a very mild load. 60 grs at 2300 fps is 750 ft lbs, guys.
you first have to HAVE that 12 ga WITH you, and then you have to bring it into play fast enough. Neither one is all that likely, under typical conditions. The odds are 4 to 1 that you will be attacked while away from your home, not in it, and you don't take out the mail, garbage or pet, mow the lawn, or answer the door with shotgun in hand. the bad guys either bust in, giving you at most 2 seconds in which to respond, or they enter by stealth or subterfuge, and you may have less than 1 second, then.
Longarms are not securable from unauthorized use, yet ready in an instant, the way ccw'd pistols are. you have to lock up the longarms, or risk having burglars/kids get a hold of them. Leaving loaded guns lying around is the mark of a stupid, lazy, inept man.
The 223 softpoint does a FINE job on men, even at 100 yds, from an M4, 60 grs at 2500fps out there. The 9x23 Win can get that sort of ballistics, from a 5" barrel, at pistol fight distances, and the .45 ACP can do even better, given cut down 460 Rowland Brass, a fully supported barrel, a solid aluminum hp, bullet, with a big cnnical hollowbase and the bullet being split lengthwise, almost full length, so that it breaks into 2 pcs at impact with flesh. 2 BIG, long, sharp cornered, hard, unstable, tumbling chunks of metal, hitting the man, 35 grs each, at 2300 fps. Now that is a mean blow, yet it has no more recoil than 230 grs at 700 fps, ie, a very mild load. 60 grs at 2300 fps is 750 ft lbs, guys.you first have to HAVE that 12 ga WITH you, and then you have to bring it into play fast enough. Neither one is all that likely, under typical conditions. The odds are 4 to 1 that you will be attacked while away from your home, not in it, and you don't take out the mail, garbage or pet, mow the lawn, or answer the door with shotgun in hand. the bad guys either bust in, giving you at most 2 seconds in which to respond, or they enter by stealth or subterfuge, and you may have less than 1 second, then.
Longarms are not securable from unauthorized use, yet ready in an instant, the way ccw'd pistols are. you have to lock up the longarms, or risk having burglars/kids get a hold of them. Leaving loaded guns lying around is the mark of a stupid, lazy, inept man.
Amy Zwirko
tooffairy
Springfield is great!I just got one and they are smooth!
that's right. 80% of the time, you won't even need to fire, 90% of the time, you won't need to hit them with any projectile, 95% of the time, any sort of hit, even a couple of swiftly placed chest hits with a "mere" .22lr, will suffice. So it's QUITE rare to need the power of a shotgun or a centerfire rifle, actually. The odds are 20 to 1 that a well handled 9mm, with jhp;s will suffice.
Sounds like a bunch of made up numbers to me.
Wait..... aren't you the guy who can put 4 shots on target in 3/4ths of a second?
if the first shot is not part of the timed event, 4 hits in 3/4 second is nothing much, homey. I can normally get 5 hits, cause only 4 are timed. See, the timer separates out the time BETWEEN shots, so the time starts with the first shot. understand? It is quite common for highly skilled men to be able to get .18 second "splits" as we call the time between hits on one target. Google for BrianEno's shooting forums. over 20 years ago, he and TGO, the great one, Robbie Leatham, were using compensated match grade 1911's, in .38 super, to get repeat hits in .11 second, 10 hits in one second, can you grasp that? and this was on a 10" disk at 10 YARDS, not 10 ft, as I use as a standard, since it's rare to need more range than that, for justifiable civilian self defense. Just because YOU can't do it, does not mean that thousands of DISCIPLINED men can't do it.
I can normally get 5 hits, cause only 4 are timed. See, the timer separates out the time BETWEEN shots, so the time starts with the first shot. understand? It is quite common for highly skilled men to be able to get .18 second "splits" as we call the time between hits on one target. Google for BrianEno's shooting forums. over 20 years ago, he and TGO, the great one, Robbie Leatham, were using compensated match grade 1911's, in .38 super, to get repeat hits in .11 second, 10 hits in one second, can you grasp that? and this was on a 10" disk at 10 YARDS, not 10 ft, as I use as a standard, since it's rare to need more range than that, for justifiable civilian self defense. Just because YOU can't do it, does not mean that thousands of DISCIPLINED men can't do it.
Errokk
New member
I keep a .410 breach load single shot saw'd off to18" and a SA XDm 9mm at bed side ready to pop. I keep safety slugs in the first six spots in the mag then fmj's to fill the other 13 vacancies. TFO's for sights on the XDm and an 140 lumen tactical L.E.D. mounted just below the barrel on the rail.
Beans and CornBread!
Beans and CornBread!
Errokk
New member
Something my wife can easily handle. Plus it's a family heirloom left to me from my grandfather.
Beans and CornBread!
I'm thinking at least 3 things:
1st: Thank you for realizing that someone besides you might need the weapon. And for teaching your kids.
2nd: 12 gauge or 20 gauge. At 10 feet, it won't matter. But you must aim. It isn't a blunderbuss you're shooting. At indoor defense ranges, you might get a 4 inch pattern (as opposed to the 4 foot-wide room clearing pattern some might have you believe).
3rd: If you choose to buy a pistol, consider these:
Many adults can't clear a jam. A child likely won't either. And I've learned about a thing called 'limp wrist'. Basically, if you can't hold the semi-auto handgun strong enough, it can interfere with the recoil operation and fail to eject the fired shell, thereby leading to a 'click' instead of a 'bang' on the second shot (I see this with my 10 year old and my 9mm occasionally).
Revolvers are easy to shoot. I've seen higher capacity revolvers with 7 to 9 rounds. A well placed .22 or .32 caliber bullet will do more damage than a .45 into the wall (unless you're wanting to kill your wall, that is). For the smaller shooters, recoil matters. I'd be happier with my 10 year old emptying a magazine of .22 rounds into a bad guy than missing with my 9mm, or only getting 1 shot off due to a malfunction.
Oh... And make sure the weapon you choose 'fits' the whole family. My 8-year old can't quite reach the trigger on my 9mm and wants to use the middle finger as her trigger finger. Really not ideal.
WingRider
1st: Thank you for realizing that someone besides you might need the weapon. And for teaching your kids.
2nd: 12 gauge or 20 gauge. At 10 feet, it won't matter. But you must aim. It isn't a blunderbuss you're shooting. At indoor defense ranges, you might get a 4 inch pattern (as opposed to the 4 foot-wide room clearing pattern some might have you believe).
3rd: If you choose to buy a pistol, consider these:
Many adults can't clear a jam. A child likely won't either. And I've learned about a thing called 'limp wrist'. Basically, if you can't hold the semi-auto handgun strong enough, it can interfere with the recoil operation and fail to eject the fired shell, thereby leading to a 'click' instead of a 'bang' on the second shot (I see this with my 10 year old and my 9mm occasionally).
Revolvers are easy to shoot. I've seen higher capacity revolvers with 7 to 9 rounds. A well placed .22 or .32 caliber bullet will do more damage than a .45 into the wall (unless you're wanting to kill your wall, that is). For the smaller shooters, recoil matters. I'd be happier with my 10 year old emptying a magazine of .22 rounds into a bad guy than missing with my 9mm, or only getting 1 shot off due to a malfunction.
Oh... And make sure the weapon you choose 'fits' the whole family. My 8-year old can't quite reach the trigger on my 9mm and wants to use the middle finger as her trigger finger. Really not ideal.
WingRider
Austin
New member
Wrong. You have to be better than in the general direction to hit with a shotgun.
Austin
New member
Nicely put. I agree
OlympicFox
New member
My requirements for a home defense pistol are quite different from the requirements for a carry pistol. There are two very simple, yet core differences between the two:
1. There is no need to conceal the HD pistol - there is no advantage to being small.
2. There is no need to be light - comfortable carry is a non-issue.
The home defense pistol has one requirement that is not a requirement for the CCW pistol:
1. The ability to fully functional even when the home owner was asleep just seconds ago.
So, our choices for home defense include:
1. Sig P226 DA/SA in 40 S&W with SCT magazine, strobe/laser combo, Hogue rubber grips with finger grooves.
2. S&W 686 357 Magnum with 2.5" barrel & Crimson Trace grips.
3. Mossberg 590-A1
4. Loaded Kahr PM40 on the top shelf of the gun safe
5. Loaded Sig P238 in a side pocket in the gun safe
Certainly, shotguns & rifles have more stopping power than handguns. However, maneuvering a long gun in a home can be very challenging without presenting the barrel of the shotgun around corners. It's not difficult for a bad guy to grab the barrel of your shotgun as you turn a corner - now you are in a struggle for control of your home defense gun. In contrast, it is easy to keep the handgun close and simultaneously pointed in an effective direction fully ready to engage a target. In other words, handguns are very appropriate and effective in CQB situations.
None, the less, we have a 12 gauge ready to go.
Two small handguns are kept ready in the safe for a quick grab just in case we're caught in a situation where one of us is forced to open the safe.
Did I mention that we have 3 dogs? :no:
1. There is no need to conceal the HD pistol - there is no advantage to being small.
2. There is no need to be light - comfortable carry is a non-issue.
The home defense pistol has one requirement that is not a requirement for the CCW pistol:
1. The ability to fully functional even when the home owner was asleep just seconds ago.
So, our choices for home defense include:
1. Sig P226 DA/SA in 40 S&W with SCT magazine, strobe/laser combo, Hogue rubber grips with finger grooves.
2. S&W 686 357 Magnum with 2.5" barrel & Crimson Trace grips.
3. Mossberg 590-A1
4. Loaded Kahr PM40 on the top shelf of the gun safe
5. Loaded Sig P238 in a side pocket in the gun safe
Certainly, shotguns & rifles have more stopping power than handguns. However, maneuvering a long gun in a home can be very challenging without presenting the barrel of the shotgun around corners. It's not difficult for a bad guy to grab the barrel of your shotgun as you turn a corner - now you are in a struggle for control of your home defense gun. In contrast, it is easy to keep the handgun close and simultaneously pointed in an effective direction fully ready to engage a target. In other words, handguns are very appropriate and effective in CQB situations.
None, the less, we have a 12 gauge ready to go.
Two small handguns are kept ready in the safe for a quick grab just in case we're caught in a situation where one of us is forced to open the safe.
Did I mention that we have 3 dogs? :no:
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