Holding Criminal @ Gunpoint in AL

[johnbergsing]

I'd like to know what I can and can't do in a situation where I'm witnessing a crime in progress (someone crawling out of a neighbor's window with her belongings, rape, etc.)? Obviously if there is an immediate threat to my life I can do what I have to preserve my life. But what about these previous or similar scenarios?

Thanks, John

 

[nogods]

First, be certain it isn't your neighbor's lover crawling out of that window, or your neighbor's house guest trying to escape the fire.

 

[johnbergsing]

It seems to me the way to make sure I stay out of trouble would be to leave the firearm holstered unless there is an immediate threat to my life or that of my family. But "what if" I witness something and can confirm it is, in fact, what I think it is? Morally I feel obligated to stop the crime but can I legally do so? I realize my Alabama Pistol License is NOT a badge. I'm not looking for trouble. I'm not going to chase someone down the street gun in hand. And I certainly don't want to do something to land myself in jail, leaving my family to fend for themselves.

 

[towboater]

Most likely need to contact an attorney, just to be sure of legal issues.

 

[johnbergsing]

I just found my answer.

Link Removed

I'll be honest, just because I can legally use deadly force doesn't mean I'm going to do so. I'd have to be absolutely sure what is going on before I would pull the trigger.

 

[Bob in Bristol]

It seems to me the way to make sure I stay out of trouble would be to leave the firearm holstered unless there is an immediate threat to my life or that of my family. But "what if" I witness something and can confirm it is, in fact, what I think it is? Morally I feel obligated to stop the crime but can I legally do so? I realize my Alabama Pistol License is NOT a badge. I'm not looking for trouble. I'm not going to chase someone down the street gun in hand. And I certainly don't want to do something to land myself in jail, leaving my family to fend for themselves.

We all need to get our State laws to match Texas. I believe in Texas you would only have to determine if the person was removing your neighbors property illegally. Then you could just open fire. Perhaps a few Texas members could verify or dispute my claim. I like Texas.

 

[rlkraatz]

You are not law enforcement

I would not interfere with crimes around you. If you are not a cop. I would get on the phone and call police. Get descriptions for police.

 

[Treo]

If a police officer is involved in a shooting incident he has the weight of the whole department behind him, you don’t.

He has access to free legal advice, free psychological counseling, if he’s injured he has workman’s comp, if he’s permanently injured or killed he has retirement or survivor’s benefits.

You don’t have any of those things.

A CHP doesn’t make you a vigilante or some kind of auxiliary cop. Use your gun for self defense not for playing super hero

 

[NotTwoShure]

I agree with the ask a lawyer post. However, to start with, visit your state’s use of deadly force statute, determine what your state’s castle doctrine, if any states. If your life and that of a third person’s is not in danger of serious injury or death, best to not become involved other than the police and a welfare check on the neighbor. However, if you are in the neighbor’s house, exhibiting a weapon and the police arrive, you may be dead right. Do not play cops and bad guys. Training if very necessary in regards to legal issues and not missing and hitting your neighbor.

 

[atschuldt]

for self defense not for playing super hero

100% agreed. Your cell phone and backing away are better weapons here, unless there's physical harm being done to your neighbor and you see it happen. I'm no lawyer, so don't take this as legal advice, but in your attempted rape scenario I believe necessity is a valid defense in washington (drawing/firing being necessary to protect yourself/neighbor). Also, treo, no disrespect but that's kind of ironic considering your picture. Made me chuckle

 

[johnbergsing]

That is more or less what I was thinking. If it's just property use the phone. I'm certainly not wanting to be an "auxiliary cop". My pistol license is NOT a badge. I'm pretty sure I'd made that clear. But if someone is being physically harmed I believe you have a moral obligation to stop it. If you engage a rapist in the middle of his crime there's a 50/50 chance he's running at you after his pants are pulled up as him running away from you. I just cant believe any person would stand there and make a phone call while a woman is being raped. At least I'd hope not.

 

[Treo]

That is more or less what I was thinking. If it's just property use the phone. I'm certainly not wanting to be an "auxiliary cop". My pistol license is NOT a badge. I'm pretty sure I'd made that clear. But if someone is being physically harmed I believe you have a moral obligation to stop it. If you engage a rapist in the middle of his crime there's a 50/50 chance he's running at you after his pants are pulled up as him running away from you. I just cant believe any person would stand there and make a phone call while a woman is being raped. At least I'd hope not.

Don't quote me on this but:

I believe there was a case in Tacoma(?) in which a guy intervened in a "rape" and killed the "rapist" and then found out it was two consenting adults role playing.

 

[johnbergsing]

Don't quote me on this but:

I believe there was a case in Tacoma(?) in which a guy intervened in a "rape" and killed the "rapist" and then found out it was two consenting adults role playing.

Yeah, that is a concern. Honestly, I probably will never run across a rape in progress in my life but it is a scenario that has crossed my mind.

 

[Treo]

. Also, treo, no disrespect but that's kind of ironic considering your picture. Made me chuckle

Dude, that is one gay looking taser

 

[cmhbob]

Keep in mind that legal advice you receive here is worth every penny you pay for it.

 

[stepside454]

Here in MO you have to believe, or be able to prove your belief that human life is in danger. If I see someone breaking into or leaving someone's house I cannot draw my weapon, unless I believe somebody in the house may be in danger of loosing there life .
Another example would be an arsonist, if I see somebody setting a neighbors house on fire,I cannot use my firearm to stop him, unless I believe someone inside is in danger of loosing there life

 

[Treo]

Here in MO you have to believe, or be able to prove your belief that human life is in danger. If I see someone breaking into or leaving someone's house I cannot draw my weapon, unless I believe somebody in the house may be in danger of loosing there life .
Another example would be an arsonist, if I see somebody setting a neighbors house on fire,I cannot use my firearm to stop him, unless I believe someone inside is in danger of loosing there life

I think arson would be cut and dried enough for me to step in and I'd also think that the nature of the crime automatically endangers life

 

[kelcarry]

In SC we have a quirky old law on the books that is reinforced by case law that allows you to perform "in the nighttime "a citizens arrest on someone "being under circumstances which raise just suspicion of his design to steal or commit some felony". You may also stop "the probability of escape---even if the life of the person should be taken". Bottom line--you see a potential felony you can perform a citizens arrest and if he wants to run you can shoot him dead. For some reason, this is only at night. This is not for me unless we have been talking about imminent danger to me or my family but it is on the books. We also have alter ego rule where you can assume the imminent danger being presented to someone else and act accordingly. Just seems for your state you should be sure of law and case law to know where you stand should you decide to be more than a good witness.

 

[johnbergsing]

I wish we had that law on the books here in Alabama!

 

[CathyInBlue]

There's also the issue that your stepping up and insinuating yourself into the conduct of others, whether that conduct was criminal or not, to have been a form of escalation. Whereupon, even if the guy you're confronting coming out of a neighbor's house with his property does, indeed, turn out to be a burglar, if he pulls a gun and starts shooting, YOU will be the one held responsible for every bullet he fires, because YOU escalated the situation from a simple burglary to a burglary plus murder of witnesses or burglary plus violent escape.

The only way I would ever confront someone coming out of a house with property would be if it was my house, my property, and I didn't give the person at hand permission to do so. Of course, then, I would have a lot more background knowledge about the situation.