Here is the straight skinny


festus

God Bless Our Troops!!!
If WE THE PEOPLE don't make sure that NOBAMA does not get elected we are all in deep poop.

Look around...banks are failing...homes are foreclosing and unemployment is on the rise.

This Knucklehead wants to increase taxes and give BILLIONS to global debt relief (of your dollars.)

Change...it's all you'll have left after taxes...:bad:
 

HK4U

New member
I think we are in trouble which ever one is elected but I agree that if Obama is elected it will accelerate 10X.
 

tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
With Obama, I'm not as concerned about the economy as I am about national security, gun rights, and abortion. Not saying that an Obama presidency would have a positive impact on the economy, but the effects on those other things would be far worse.
 

tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
if obama gets in I think our country will go to crap way faster than anyone could imagine.

I agree. Even if we ignore the gun issue for a second, just think what would happen if he tries to simultaneously tries to bail out the economy and implement universal health care. His plan to do that? Increase taxes on the rich, and increase capital gains taxes. Increasing taxes on the rich would have the double effect of stifling job creation (rich people, after all, are the ones who create jobs) and reducing the number of rich people he'll be able to tax. Not only that, but the amount of income that rich people would put into tax shelters would increase exponentially under such a plan, and, contrary to the intended effect of increasing tax revenue, it would decrease the tax base, thus decreasing tax revenue in the long run.
 

The Gunny

New member
I see the majority here subscribe to the trickle down economics theory. The only thing I have to say about that theory is don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining. Look around you the country has already gone to Hell! WE already owe the Chinese so much that they won't loan us anymore. We financed that little shindig over in Iraq that way you know the one they said would pay for itself and be over in a year or so yeah haw great it that? The reason is that we the people put the fox in charge of the hen house and they have done as foxes will do. Now we only have a few eggs left and no chickens. Reelect those foxes if you want to but I won't be a part of that. I voted for Obama and I hope he can live up to half my expectations if he can do that things won't be half as bad.
 
I see the majority here subscribe to the trickle down economics theory. The only thing I have to say about that theory is don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining. Look around you the country has already gone to Hell! WE already owe the Chinese so much that they won't loan us anymore. We financed that little shindig over in Iraq that way you know the one they said would pay for itself and be over in a year or so yeah haw great it that? The reason is that we the people put the fox in charge of the hen house and they have done as foxes will do. Now we only have a few eggs left and no chickens. Reelect those foxes if you want to but I won't be a part of that. I voted for Obama and I hope he can live up to half my expectations if he can do that things won't be half as bad.

I see we have at least one list member that's fallen into the "Obama trap". :eek:



gf
 

tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
I see the majority here subscribe to the trickle down economics theory. The only thing I have to say about that theory is don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining. Look around you the country has already gone to Hell! WE already owe the Chinese so much that they won't loan us anymore. We financed that little shindig over in Iraq that way you know the one they said would pay for itself and be over in a year or so yeah haw great it that? The reason is that we the people put the fox in charge of the hen house and they have done as foxes will do. Now we only have a few eggs left and no chickens. Reelect those foxes if you want to but I won't be a part of that. I voted for Obama and I hope he can live up to half my expectations if he can do that things won't be half as bad.

So your solution is to reward the poor at the expense of the rich? Doesn't that kinda reduce the incentive to work hard that characterizes self-made millionaires? Why would anyone want to work hard to accumulate wealth knowing that the government will just take much of it away? The "Robin Hood" idea of income redistribution disincentivizes hard work, and thus, makes America poorer over the long run.
 

HK4U

New member
So your solution is to reward the poor at the expense of the rich? Doesn't that kinda reduce the incentive to work hard that characterizes self-made millionaires? Why would anyone want to work hard to accumulate wealth knowing that the government will just take much of it away? The "Robin Hood" idea of income redistribution disincentivizes hard work, and thus, makes America poorer over the long run.

+1. I think most of us feel that there are real problems with the way our government is going. I also feel most of us agree that Obama is not the answer to those problems. You don't put out a fire by throwing gasoline on it.
 

gestu1

New member
With our country in its current state we need to keep our money at home and fix our own problems. Then and only them should we consider helping other countries. But only if the majority of Americans agree to do so as it should be. I'm afraid Obama has dreams of being the world savior and will gladly blow our money to do so.
 

The Gunny

New member
So your solution is to reward the poor at the expense of the rich? Doesn't that kinda reduce the incentive to work hard that characterizes self-made millionaires? Why would anyone want to work hard to accumulate wealth knowing that the government will just take much of it away? The "Robin Hood" idea of income redistribution disincentivizes hard work, and thus, makes America poorer over the long run.

No, I think it has gone far to far the other way for the last decade or so. We have given so many tax breaks to the richest 10 percent of Americans it is time to level the playing field. That is the role of the government as I see it. We have begun to see the down side to a totally free market society yes you can make gobs of money and screw over the majority of your fellow Americans but the downside is that when the sh*t hits the fans and the bottom drops out of that market they go running and screaming for the government to save them. They talk about the US having one of the highest corporate tax rates in the industrialized world but what they neglect to tell you that there are so many loop holes that in reality we collect far fewer corporate taxes than most other industrialized nations and there is little or no enforcement for failure to pay those few remaining taxes. What I would like to see is a flat tax with no exceptions this is something that no could deny would surely be fair however the mere mention of this sends many of the wealthy screaming about how unfair that would be. I fail to see how it could be anything but fair. The middle class has been forced to bear the burden for far to long and we are seeing the beginning o f the end of it. There are now more wealthy Americans per capita than at anytime since prior to the Great Depression, however I feel that is changing rapidly from what I have been seeing on the news about Wall Street. The divide between the wealthy and the poor is greater than it has ever been, the middle class has shrunk and can no longer be expected to carry the burden.
 

HK4U

New member
No, I think it has gone far to far the other way for the last decade or so. We have given so many tax breaks to the richest 10 percent of Americans it is time to level the playing field. That is the role of the government as I see it. We have begun to see the down side to a totally free market society yes you can make gobs of money and screw over the majority of your fellow Americans but the downside is that when the sh*t hits the fans and the bottom drops out of that market they go running and screaming for the government to save them. They talk about the US having one of the highest corporate tax rates in the industrialized world but what they neglect to tell you that there are so many loop holes that in reality we collect far fewer corporate taxes than most other industrialized nations and there is little or no enforcement for failure to pay those few remaining taxes. What I would like to see is a flat tax with no exceptions this is something that no could deny would surely be fair however the mere mention of this sends many of the wealthy screaming about how unfair that would be. I fail to see how it could be anything but fair. The middle class has been forced to bear the burden for far to long and we are seeing the beginning o f the end of it. There are now more wealthy Americans per capita than at anytime since prior to the Great Depression, however I feel that is changing rapidly from what I have been seeing on the news about Wall Street. The divide between the wealthy and the poor is greater than it has ever been, the middle class has shrunk and can no longer be expected to carry the burden.


While I agree with a lot of what you are saying I do not think Obama is the one to change it and in fact as I have said I believe it would get exponentionally worse with him as President.
 
While I agree with a lot of what you are saying I do not think Obama is the one to change it and in fact as I have said I believe it would get exponentionally worse with him as President.

I agree. Obama has limited experience in public office. This guy is simply a smooth talker who has a vision but no solid plan.



gf
 

The Gunny

New member
Well we all have our veiw of things. I have listened to both sides and that is who I feel has been listening to my demographic the middle class. Americans who have been down sized and belt tightened to the point of having to worry over whether to buy grocieries or fill up on gas. Ask yourself this question are you better off now than you were four years ago?
 

HK4U

New member
Well we all have our view of things. I have listened to both sides and that is who I feel has been listening to my demographic the middle class. Americans who have been down sized and belt tightened to the point of having to worry over whether to buy groceries or fill up on gas. Ask yourself this question are you better off now than you were four years ago?

No probably not but do I think four years from now I will be better off under Obama? No. I am all for change if the change is for the better. If it is positive change. I do not believe Obama will bring positive change but rather I will have nothing but change in my pocket after he gets finished with us.
 

The Gunny

New member
Are You Better Off Now Than You Were 8 Years Ago?

Here are some interesting facts.

In his closing remarks during the final presidential debate of 1980, Ronald Reagan famously asked the American people: "Are you better off now than you were four years ago?"

The table below updates Reagan's question by comparing the state of the economy in 2000 and 2008. We use 25 indicators of economic well-being and economic performance and find that 23 of the 25 indicators are worse in 2008 than they were in 2000. Click here for a list of the sources used.

With this report, CEPR is trying a new feature for our site - allowing you to provide us with feedback. So please take a look at our new commenting system below and let us know what you think.



Economic Indicator
2000 2008
Unemployment rate 4.0% 6.1%
Inflation rate 3.3% 5.4%
Job Growth (preceding 8 years)
Total nonfarm employment 21.4% 4.3%

Private sector employment 23.6% 3.6%

Manufacturing employment
2.9% -22.2%

Employment rate (% of population)
All, age 16 and older
64.4% 62.6%

Men, age 16 and older
71.9% 69.1%

Women, age 16 and older
57.5% 56.5%

Real wage growth (preceding 8 years)
8.2% 1.8%

Minimum wage (July 2008$) $6.58 $6.55

Family income
Median, 2007$ $61,083 $61,355
Growth (preceding 8 years)
14.7% 0.4%

Poverty
Rate (% of population)
11.3% 12.5%

People in poverty (millions)
31.6 37.3
Uninsured (health insurance)
Rate (% of population)
14.0% 15.3%
People without insurance (millions) 38.7 45.7

Personal savings (% of disposable income) 2.3% 0.6%

College tuition (average per year, 2007$)
Private four-year college $19,337 $23,712
Public four-year college
$4,221 $6,185

Gasoline (gallon, 2008$) $2.03 $4.09

GDP growth (preceding 8 years) 34.2% 19.6%

Productivity growth (preceding 8 years) 15.9% 21.9%
Trade balance (% of GDP) -3.9% -5.1%
Federal debt (% of GDP) 57.3% 65.5%

Net foreign debt (% of GDP) 13.6% 17.9%
 

tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
Well we all have our veiw of things. I have listened to both sides and that is who I feel has been listening to my demographic the middle class. Americans who have been down sized and belt tightened to the point of having to worry over whether to buy grocieries or fill up on gas. Ask yourself this question are you better off now than you were four years ago?

Heck no! And the recent economic meltdown will make us even worse off.
 

Hoplites1234

New member
You call yourself The Gunny implying your USMC--are you? Pretty radical perspective compared to all the Marines I've had the pleasure of working with over the past 25 years. When/if Hussin Obama gets elected will you be the first to turn in your firearms and attend church with Rev Wright at the pulpit. Elections always seem to be a choice of the lesser to two evils and this choice is not difficult.
 

tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
You call yourself The Gunny implying your USMC--are you? Pretty radical perspective compared to all the Marines I've had the pleasure of working with over the past 25 years. When/if Hussin Obama gets elected will you be the first to turn in your firearms and attend church with Rev Wright at the pulpit. Elections always seem to be a choice of the lesser to two evils and this choice is not difficult.

Which is why I won't be voting for either; I'm voting Libertarian.
 

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