Gun mom looks to sue sheriff


I agree with everyone here. I got my ccw because I needed a way to protect my familiy that placed me on even ground with type of people that I have had to deal with on a regular basis in my line of work. I am a current corrections employee and the criminals that I deal with are chronic offenders and have made many threats to my family. I am not a gun rights activist but I feel that we all have our rights to do as we please however not everyone is comfortable around open carry. I personally would be more suspicsious of a person who looks to be carrying but seems to be acting bizzare rather than looking at a person who is willing to carry open. I know this sounds hypocritcal but why would somone who wants a gun for protection wish to draw attention to themselves.
 

Again, this is one of those topics that just swirls around and round. Best considered with a beer in hand or bottomless cup of coffee, among friends and reasonably respectful people.

At the core of the 2A is the right of the INDIVIDUAL to keep and bear/carry. PERIOD.

That means YOU decide, not your neighbor, not your preacher, not our politicians, not your mother-in-law (except within their home or property).

I don't care if you carry on your belt, under your shoulder or in your crotch.

I don't care if it is an AK-47/74 SA, AR-15, Barret .50, 9mm, .32, 18+1, 6+empty chamber, 5&hammer down on empty, revolver or semi-auto, etc.

It can be concealed or in plain sight as long as YOU are being responsible for its security from those who don't know how to handle it and those who would mishandle it deliberately. If you don't know how to carry safely, your right should be revoked by a jury of your peers (not a jury of pisant anti's).

A critical question which many of us believe focuses the issue is: If we hide the guns from the kids and our fellow citizens all of the time, how will they EVER learn that it is normal and accept it as an ordinary right?

I know of no other CC person who tries to say NEVER carry concealed, ONLY openly, so am at a loss as to why so many people who also carry feel compelled to try to tell others that they shouldn't open carry. If some mouse/sheep/wuss is going to wet their pants over seeing a hardened, dangerous, salivating gun on another's belt - who really cares? Even if it causes some short-term inconvenience or grief, as long as you were within your rights (property, location, secure) and carrying legally - tough. But, if it bothers YOU, then you still have the right to conceal so shut up and conceal.

However, as I mentioned above, I don't care where/how YOU carry (as long as you are not negligent) and I respect those who recognize their limitations or have philosophical differences which make them NOT carry, but temper your judgments of others before you make statements based on YOUR determination of what is best for YOU.

For the record, I only open carry on private land or at the range. It would be a relief though to not have to worry about how my jacket was hanging and being able to position closer to 3:00 without worry about breaking concealment.
 
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NDS said:
Another sterling example, on a gun rights forum no less, demonstrating how some people don't understand what a 'right' is. She did NOTHING wrong. She endangered no one. She harmed no one. She was wronged, damaged, and put upon by those who do not respect HER rights.

Again, rather than defend the victim in the face of abuse, blame the victim for the abuse suffered at the hands of authority out of control.
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I didn't make the comment about her drawing attention to herself to suggest that what she was doing should be banned. I was merely suggesting that in certain situations, it is more prudent to conceal than to carry openly. Clearly, while it is her right to carry as she chooses, this was not the prudent thing to do. Think what would happen to you if you bad mouthed your boss out in public. Sure, your right to free speech allows you to voice your opinions, however unsavory they might be, about anyone or anything, but free speech does not guarantee anyone job security. Bad mouthing your boss in public, while it is your right, is not the prudent thing to do. Just because exercising a freedom however you choose is your right, that does not make it prudent.
 
Ease up on the use of judgmental words like "clearly", "danger" and "prudent" though. Once said they take on an absolute meaning that can be difficult to back away from.

I can "badmouth" my boss in public. As you point out, I have the right to my opinion and the expression of it as long (as I do not advocate violence or treason). There are consequences however. I may still choose to exercise my right despite the possible consequence of being fired which is a private action by another citizen. However, that is very different from exercising my rights and losing my CWP by an elected official of the community I live in. I can go get another job but getting abother CWP is considerably more challenging.

While living in WA I kept hearing that open carry was legal. Opinion was often expressed as you can in this town but the police in this other place will give you trouble. Since I never saw anyone do it except at the range. I chose not to do so because even if within my rights, it seemed to be more hassle than it was worth. However, I do not see that "Clearly, while it is her right to carry as she chooses, this was not the prudent thing to do." It was legal, she did it, someone (Sheriff) got peeved about it. It is simply not a "clear" situation with regard to her prudence. Suppose this guy (Sheriff) decides anyone who open carries at church is "clearly" a "danger" to the community? How "clear" is that? Maybe wearing it at Safeway? The local hospital? Inside the bank? I am assuming that the location of the soccer field did not fall into the restricted zones. She was legally carrying and not brandishing or threatening others. This is a very clear problem with the 2A - where do her rights stop and the rights of others in the area begin?

To some it is very clear she's a danger, to others, myself included, she is clearly increasing the level of security while children are playing a game of soccer.

It is all in the words - and that's where the lawyers are going to have a field day, or a challenge.
 
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This is an interesting argument that can go on forever without really reaching any meaningful resolution.
I've had a CCW for about 6 months now, and in NC even though you technically have a right to carry open, they have a "terror of the people" rule that basically says you can open carry as long as no one gets scared by seeing your firearm and contacts the authorities. Obviously since about the only place you could go and openly carry without freaking someone out is to a gun store or the range open carry is probably going to cause you problems. It really is lame because it gives them that loophole where they can say you have the right to carry "unless" which pretty much means never.

I think that if her state explicitly allows open carry then she was well within her rights and hopefully justice will prevail and come out on her side. In that case the Sheriff was breaking the law and should be treated as such.
However, in the eyes of the general public, firearms are something to be feared. To the uninitiated a gun is more than a tool and they see a firearm in the hands of a civilian, or on the belt of a civilian, as a potential threat. They don't know the person's character, or intent, and I don't think they can be blamed for being fearful. They are in general, inundated with negative images of firearms on a daily basis by liberal sources such as the larger part of the news media, and groups such as the brady campaign. This can only be combated by providing positive examples of gun ownership, and we must be diligent because the negative examples of gun ownership are abound.

If this woman wins her case, as I think she should, it is a positive example of reaffirming our rights as citizens to carry a legal firearm to protect ourselves. When you are in the minority, as we all area as CCW holders, it is difficult to sway public opinion but we must try. I hope she will continue to be vocal about the violation of her rights and help to provide a positive example of someone enjoying their freedoms that we are entitled to in this country.
 
Again, even though it's her right to carry however she chooses, you guys should know that prudence should guide that decision every once in a while. How many of you would open carry at a place, where, although technically not illegal, you know would draw lots of unwanted attention to yourself? I wouldn't.
 
And it will always draw attention until the right is exercised enough to be clearly understood by the citizenry.

There are towns and areas where open carry is common and easily accepted. How did it get that way?

Most of us here dream of living in 2A environments like Alaska and Vermont. Until people like this Sheriff and (apparently) others in the community understand that it is 1. legal and 2. safe, they are going to be skittish when someone like her shows up.

It would be interesting to get a half-dozen people with out-of-state, but still recognized, permits to open carry in the vicinity of the Sheriff and see what his reaction is to someone with a permit he cannot revoke.

If that is realized then it would be clear that his actions towards the woman were arbitrary. At least to me.

As for prudence, if a crazed gunman opens up on the soccer match and her gun is locked in her vehicle and inaccesible, how prudent does she seem to be then?

Should I prudently not wear my weapon when in the presence of my mother-in-law? Suppose while she is visiting Santa Claus comes to the door and opens fire? Have I been prudent in that case?

When flying through NY from one RTC state to another, should you prudently not bring your firearm? If the flight is delayed and you are arrested for violating NY law due to being forced to take possession of your baggage, how prudent were you?

Aside: Tatt - don't take this as an argument. It's a discussion of comments and questions.
 
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I would! If I have the right to open carry in a place and I choose to then everyone can just get over it. If you don't exercise your right then you can loose it! If I hurt someones "feelings" because I have a firearm on my hip, so be it. The only way to override the anti-gun indoctrination is to prove them wrong, that law abiding citizens can carry safely everywhere.
 
ecocks said:
And it will always draw attention until the right is exercised enough to be clearly understood by the citizenry.

There are towns and areas where open carry is common and easily accepted. How did it get that way?

Most of us here dream of living in 2A environments like Alaska and Vermont. Until people like this Sheriff and (apparently) others in the community understand that it is 1. legal and 2. safe, they are going to be skittish when someone like her shows up.

It would be interesting to get a half-dozen people with out-of-state, but still recognized, permits to open carry in the vicinity of the Sheriff and see what his reaction is to someone with a permit he cannot revoke.

If that is realized then it would be clear that his actions towards the woman were arbitrary. At least to me.

As for prudence, if a crazed gunman opens up on the soccer match and her gun is locked in her vehicle and inaccesible, how prudent does she seem to be then?

Should I prudently not wear my weapon when in the presence of my mother-in-law? Suppose while she is visiting Santa Claus comes to the door and opens fire? Have I been prudent in that case?

When flying through NY from one RTC state to another, should you prudently not bring your firearm? If the flight is delayed and you are arrested for violating NY law due to being forced to take possession of your baggage, how prudent were you?

Aside: Tatt - don't take this as an argument. It's a discussion of comments and questions.
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My answer to the prudence in the case of the soccer match and mother and law is to conceal. As for flying through NYC, I can't really say, although in that case, that's not really an issue that is carry-related.

All I'm saying is that certain social situations require prudence; I'm almost certain none of you would open carry to a job interview or on university property.
 
Red Hat said:
I would! If I have the right to open carry in a place and I choose to then everyone can just get over it. If you don't exercise your right then you can loose it! If I hurt someones "feelings" because I have a firearm on my hip, so be it. The only way to override the anti-gun indoctrination is to prove them wrong, that law abiding citizens can carry safely everywhere.
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My neighbors get "hurt feelings" all the time. What hurts more is when they call the police, they respond and check out my firearm and determine that I'm doing nothing illegal (holstered on your own property is perfectly legal). There have been couple of times where I provide the police with surveillance footage to prove that I wasn't "brandishing" and my firearm was holstered the entire time. It was especially nice when the officers noticed my neighbor's children committing illegal acts in the background and my surveillance video was used against them. If they would have simply kept to themselves and refrained from sticking their nose in my business, there wouldn't have been any problems. :wink:



gf
 
Wish this was over beers or bottomless coffee at Denny's. (Mmmmmm, waffles.....sorry)

If it was a job interview at Blackwater or DynaCorp yes, I very well might decide to open carry if the law at the interview location allowed it. If your mother-in-law absolutely forbade you to have a gun on you in her presence (even in your own home) and you were discovered to be wearing one anyway, then I absolutely judge that as imprudent. Unless of course, you told her that you could care less what she wanted and she needed to understand that you were going to be carrying all the time anyway. Finally, if you can carry at both ends of a trip but are in danger of being arrested if your flight is delayed in NY (which has happened and is proceeding through the court system) then will you be "prudent" and leave it at home or will you take a gun anyway?

The point is that "prudent" is very difficult to determine. What is prudent for one person is not necessarily prudent for others.

She did not break the law, was apparently not being negligent and was exercising her rights. That is the point of her case.

Waffles.........
 
The BIGGER ISSUE

What I really don't understand about this whole question is why so many of you who carry are against this immdediately.

It is really no different than those who, because they are scared of guns and their own insecurities, want to take them from us. Open carry, where legal, is well, LEGAL. If YOU don't want to, then don't. Just know that the Wal-Mart or Best Buy Manager who is screaming about, " A Man With a Gun!" when your jacket hikes up while picking up a box is NEVER going to understand the law unless it happens enough times that it becomes common knowledge that it is not illegal or a danger to him or his customers.
 
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Another way to put it is that I've never heard of a BG walking into an establishment with a holstered gun. Most times the handgun is tucked in a waistband or even in a pants/jacket pocket.



gf
 
tattedupboy said:
Again, even though it's her right to carry however she chooses, you guys should know that prudence should guide that decision every once in a while. How many of you would open carry at a place, where, although technically not illegal, you know would draw lots of unwanted attention to yourself? I wouldn't.
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Y'mean like open carry into a bank? Yikes! It might be well within our rights to do so but that is one place I'll not open carry for any reason. Neither would I yell, "Fire!" in a theater. I don't believe that this gal was doing anything close to that, but I wasn't there, so I don't know for sure.

That said, and the following experience is not quite the same situation, yet two years ago, when my first, late husband was hospitalized and when he was first hooked up to the automatic electric blood pressure monitor, and the nurse had walked behind the curtain and to the other patient in the room, I said something quite loudly and jokingly to the effect, "70 over 20!?" As soon as I heard her come-a-running :mad: I realized the error of my joking ways. I think that was NOT the prudent thing to do! Yes, sometimes the things that we do need to be balanced with prudence, moderation. Sometimes, but not always, must we take others into account.
 
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Here in Texas the open carry may be voted on soon. I hope it passes however I will for the most part still carry concealed. For me, I like to draw as little attention as I can to myself for a number of reasons. As I have said before high on the list of reasons is the fact that if I am somewhere and an active shooter/shooters goes to work I would rather not be the first target. I feel the stealth mode is to my advantage.
 
HK4U said:
Here in Texas the open carry may be voted on soon. I hope it passes however I will for the most part still carry concealed. For me, I like to draw as little attention as I can to myself for a number of reasons. As I have said before high on the list of reasons is the fact that if I am somewhere and an active shooter/shooters goes to work I would rather not be the first target. I feel the stealth mode is to my advantage.
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Can I just ask what you would think about the following scenario?

Picture standing in line at the bank along with 5-6 other customers, 2-3 tellers and a couple of customer service staff at desks in the lobby. Half of you with holstered sidearms. A guy comes in to scope the bank out before he and his buddy outside walk in to rob the place. Do you think he's going to rob THAT bank or head somewhere they won't have to deal with 6 armed customers THEN risk police?

Same situation but you and MAYBE 5 others are carrying concealed. Guy comes in, looks over the place and decides....what?

Ask yourself why so few gun stores have business time armed robberies versus banks or convenience stores?
 
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