Gun in car w/ SC CWP

[bbarton713]

Good question. My guess is that #16 makes it clear that it has to be in a container but I could be wrong. I wrote the guys that wrote the SC Gun Law book and will let you know if they answer and what they have to say.

 

[bbarton713]

I was wrong. I'll copy his comments below (in parentheses) but the bottom line is that if you're legal to carry a weapon because of your CWP you can carry on your motorcycle. However, if I were you, I'd make sure you know the law and carry a copy with you because I've already run into a state trooper that didn't know the law.

((((((((((((((((((( my comments in parenthesis ))))))))))))))))))))









SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.
It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any handgun, whether concealed or not, except as follows, unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law:



(((((((Unlawful to carry a handgun, on or about your person, whether concealed or not, EXCEPT as follows - the numbered items below are exceptions to the general prohibition on carrying handguns)))))))))))



(9) a person in a vehicle if the handgun is:




(a) secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle; however, this item is not violated if the glove compartment, console, or trunk is opened in the presence of a law enforcement officer for the sole purpose of retrieving a driver's license, registration, or proof of insurance; or




(((((((((( Vehicle exception)))))))))



(b) concealed on or about his person, and he has a valid concealed weapons permit pursuant to the provisions of Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23;





(((((((((In vehicle, on or about person, with CWP exception - specific to vehicles - this is a REDUNDANT exception because of the first part of exception # 12 below)))))))))))))







(12) a person who is granted a permit under provision of law by the State Law Enforcement Division to carry a handgun about his person, under conditions set forth in the permit, and while transferring the handgun between the permittee's person and a location specified in item (9);


(((((((((((((((( The first half of this exception to the general handgun prohibition is "catch all" so long as the person has a CWP and carries legally according to the CWP law - there is no prohition to carrying on motorcycles in the CWP law)))))))))))))))))))))))






(16) Any person on a motorcycle when the pistol is secured in a closed saddlebag or other similar closed accessory container attached, whether permanently or temporarily, to the motorcycle.



(((((((((((((((( This is an exception to the handgun prohibition for motorcyclists who want to carry in their saddlebags - if the motorcyclist wants to carry on or about his person, they are covered under exception 12 above.))))))))))))))))))))))))))

 

[tcox4freedom]

Might I suggest the book: "South Carolina Gun Law" written by a couple of SC attorneys and a SC LEO. www.scgunlaw.com

Keep in mind, I am NOT an attorney! But the way I understand the law is:

#1- A container with an "integral" fastener is key.
So it appears you would be safe & legal if your firearm was in a closed gun case or range bag "IF" that case is in the luggage compartment.

If you do NOT have a trunk, the rear most compartment is fine. If in a truck, the area behind but NOT under the rear most seat is fine.

#2- Under the seat; door pockets; between the seat & console are NO-NO's.


The authors state on page 86 of South Carolina Gun Law: "The best way to stay safe from criminal and civil liability is to keep handguns in safe containers like holsters, purses, pockets, cases or glove compartments."

It would appear a "CLOSED/Secured" glovebox or console is fine as long as the compartment can be/IS "SAFELY" secured. This is true for permit holders and NON permit holders alike.

Furthermore it would seem:
IF you are a CWP holder, you can keep it "ON or ABOUT" your person; BUT "not" loose in your vehicle. This seems to include holsters and purses.

IF you choose NOT to keep your firearm in the glovebox or console and opt to transport in a gun case, range bag or "other" container with an "integral" fastener the container must be kept in the luggage area or rear most compartment.


What my LEO friends say:
They do NOT want a gun kept in a place where it is easily accessible by the occupant or occupants of a vehicle. So, if a person is alone in the car a gun case or range bag on the back seat (where luggage would be kept if you were driving on a trip alone); is "most likely" fine IF you have a CWP. (For NON permit holders; any firearms MUST be in the trunk, luggage compartment OR secured in a glovebox or console.)

HOWEVER; "IF" there are multiple occupants in a vehicle, the bag needs to be in the trunk, luggage compartment or behind the most rear seat in the case of a pick up truck.

I hope this has helped clear some of the confusion.

 

[utimmer43]

I appreciate all the great comments here but I have a little different twist to this topic. The following sections specify how a handgun can be carried:
SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.

It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any handgun, whether concealed or not, except as follows, unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law:

(9) a person in a vehicle if the handgun is:

(a) secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle; however, this item is not violated if the glove compartment, console, or trunk is opened in the presence of a law enforcement officer for the sole purpose of retrieving a driver's license, registration, or proof of insurance; or

(b) concealed on or about his person, and he has a valid concealed weapons permit pursuant to the provisions of Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23;


(16) Any person on a motorcycle when the pistol is secured in a closed saddlebag or other similar closed accessory container attached, whether permanently or temporarily, to the motorcycle.

Since they have added 9b allowing concealed carry by cwp holders does it then preclude concealed carry by cwp holders on a motorcycle because it's not specifically mentioned? If I'm on the bike am I required to put the gun in a saddlebag?

One would not preclude the other. This is simply a list of acceptable methods of carry. You may carry in the fashion described in (16), or if you have a permit, you may carry in the fashion described in (9b). Realize though that you do not need to carry on or about your person simply because you have a CCW. You need only comply with one (any one) of these provisions.

 

[mappow]

SC only allows you to carry a firearm in the Vehicle in following three places:
1.) Console 2.) Glove Box 3.) Trunk.
If you have a CCP you may then carry on your person in addition to the three listed. IF you out of your Vehicle and female, you may carry in your purse or on your person. Sorry guys, no man bags allowed.

 

[Red Hat]

SC only allows you to carry a firearm in the Vehicle in following three places:
1.) Console 2.) Glove Box 3.) Trunk.
If you have a CCP you may then carry on your person in addition to the three listed. IF you out of your Vehicle and female, you may carry in your purse or on your person. Sorry guys, no man bags allowed.

I don't agree with that statement. There is nothing in the law that says you can't carry it in a man bag. You can carry in a fanny pack and women can carry in their purse so I doubt anyone would say anything if you had a firearm in a man bag. It would never make it to court!

 

[mappow]

Not splitting hairs but the CCP is issued for concealment on ones person. From what I understand and was taught, no other options allowed per SC State Law with the exception if you're female and have a purse. Although not a Lawyer nor fully cognizant of all laws of SC, making it to court is not the issue. It's will I be arrested for a weapons violation per SC Law.

 

[bbarton713]

I'm pretty sure that the Attorney General issued an opinion that extended it to purse, bag, briefcase, etc.

 

[Red Hat]

The problem is sometimes an instructor will give out opinionated statements without any basis of the law. If a bag is illegal then a fanny pack or any pouch worn on a belt would be illegal since it's not being carried under clothing. bbarton713, you just rang a bell in my head. I remember an opinion rendered a couple years ago on that.

Here's a man bag for CC. http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=31

 

[utimmer43]

Here is another question, does a jacket or leather vest that includes a holster pocket qualify as a closed container? If I carry in a jacket holster pocket and then take the jacket off and place it on the passenger seat of my car, is this legal?

"...or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle."

You might be able to argue that your vest is a closed container, but that closed container must be in the trunk.

 

[FN1910]

"...or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle."

You might be able to argue that your vest is a closed container, but that closed container must be in the trunk.

The ckosed container in the luggage comprtment is to cover vehicles that do not have a trunk such as SUV's. The luggage compartment is the area behind the rearmost seat. If in your trunk then no container is required but if you don't have a trunk then some kind of gun case is needed.

 

[utimmer43]

The closed container in the luggage compartment is to cover vehicles that do not have a trunk such as SUV's. The luggage compartment is the area behind the rearmost seat. If in your trunk then no container is required but if you don't have a trunk then some kind of gun case is needed.

Very well. None the less, the concealed carry vest on the passenger seat would not qualify.

 

[melloyello]

Car carry is another area where the People's Republic of South Carolina is over restrictive IMHO.

At least we don't have to carry our guns unloaded, away from reach and ammo in a separate area.

US Code TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 926A. .... , during such transportation transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

If we can ever pass open carry, then concealed car carry wouldn't be an issue.

 

[mappow]

Car carry is another area where the People's Republic of South Carolina is over restrictive IMHO.

G50AE just because we're the most back assward State in the Union with archaic laws and rampant corruption within the Legislature. I fail to understand your constant reference to the Peoples Republic of SC. Whilst I agree we should be named Plantation of SC, the Master being the budget & control board. I don't believe the State has gone to a full commune. In a commune, all must work. NOT IN THIS State!

 

[mappow]

Yep, been to dem publick skolls and it shodn't be helled gisnt me. U nowed how it is in souf kackalacky. Mo beter we be lyke dis dem to be mo edmakated. Aks dem ones up in da Kolumbia, da nowed it tooo. Ben gon on fer years and no one do anytang bout it.

 

[ReadyForZ-day]

The law mentions "or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener". What does it mean by an "integral fastener"?

#2- Under the seat; door pockets; between the seat & console are NO-NO's. from: tcox4freedom

Also, so is it saying that the weapon can not be in a glove box or center console? If it can be in that area does the console/box need to be locked with a key?

 

[Red Hat]

An integral fastener is where the compartment has a latch that keeps the compartment closed. It doesn't require a lock. Just some way to keep it closed.

It can only be in a console, glove box or trunk and doesn't have to be locked. Firearms can be loaded...one in the chamber and ready to go! There's legislation in work to allow under seat carry in a vehicle.

 

[FN1910]

"integral fastener" = A device that is part of the case that will hold it closed. A zipper, a latch, a catch, a ribbon if it is sewed on, a string if it is permanently attaqched to the case, a spring that keeps it closed. No the glove box or console do not have to be locked, only that something (a spring) will hold them closed. I don't think gravity to keep your console lid closed counts as an intergral fastener but it could be argued otherwise.

 

[kelcarry]

I believe that many of you have made it clear that you all agree that a glove box or the console ARE legitimate places to store a firearm and I heartily concur. IMO, there is no question that is what the law allows and all this discussion is just "picking at the bones" of the wording. If you REALLY want peace of mind on this issue just CC as you would on the street. If need be, adjust your CC holster to accomodate sitting in the car or purchase a holster that is designed for same. Wallah!!!--issue settled.

 

[FN1910]

I believe that many of you have made it clear that you all agree that a glove box or the console ARE legitimate places to store a firearm and I heartily concur. IMO, there is no question that is what the law allows and all this discussion is just "picking at the bones" of the wording. If you REALLY want peace of mind on this issue just CC as you would on the street. If need be, adjust your CC holster to accomodate sitting in the car or purchase a holster that is designed for same. Wallah!!!--issue settled.

A few years ago a certain county in SC decided that if you had a CWP then your guns had to be carried on you and console carry was not an option. Several people were charged with a violation of handgun laws by having a gun in their glovebox or console after getting a CWP. I don't know which county is was other than I heard it was somewhere in the upstate and I don't know how many were charged or waht they were charged with exactly. However the state legislature made the change to be sure that eitehr way was fine. It was an unneeded change as eveyone but this one agency knew it already.