Gun Ban in Pahrump, Nevada, 1-27-09! Can you help?

[gdcleanfun]

Pahrump's new Town Manager, William (Bill) Kohbarger, has called for a ban of firearms at town events, on town property, and in town buildings. (See Agenda #12) Are you in southern Nevada? Can you come to Pahrump for the 7 pm meeting tomorrow, 1-27-09, and help us curb this man's agenda to take away our rights? We need all the help we can get!

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From Pahrump's website:

TB Agenda 01-27-09 PDF Print E-mail
Wednesday, 21 January 2009

PAHRUMP TOWN BOARD MEETING
BOB RUUD COMMUNITY CENTER
150 NORTH HIGHWAY 160
TUESDAY – 7:00 P.M.
January 27, 2009

AGENDA

1.Call to Order, Pledge of Allegiance, and Welcome.

2.Discussion and decision regarding agenda items.

3.Public Comment. Action may not be taken on matters considered during this period until specifically included on an agenda as an action item (NRS241.020 (2) (C) (3).

4.Advisory Board Reports

5.Announcements and “Good News”.
6.Advisory Board Liaison Appointments by the Chairman of the Board.

7.Discussion and decision regarding Resolution 2009-01 accepting and approving the 2007/08 Town audit and supplemental materials. Finance Director/Town Manager

8.Discussion and decision regarding grant request from Pahrump Arts Council for “Youth Artists in Schools & Art for Young People” for $1,020. Town Manager/PAC

9.Discussion and decision regarding grant request from Pahrump Arts Council for “Theater Guild Production-I Have before Me a Remarkable Document to Me by a Young Lady from Rwanda” for $1,000. Town Manager/PAC

10.Discussion and decision regarding grand request from Pahrump Arts Council for an addendum to the Fiber Arts Budget for Regional advertising for $1,050.00. Town Manager/PAC

11.Discussion and decision regarding letter of support for Utilities, Inc. – Pahrump Valley Water and Wastewater Infrastructure Project. Town Manager

12.Discussion and decision regarding barring firearms on Town owned property, in Town owned buildings, and at Town sponsored events. Town Manager

13.First Reading of Ordinance #43 (An Amendment to Ordinance No. 43 of the Unincorporated Town of Pahrump, to Revise and Restate the Town’s Regulation Concerning the Collection, Transportation, Deposit, and Disposal of Solid Waste and Recyclables, and Providing for Other Matters Properly Relating Thereto). Town Board

14.Discussion and decision regarding two ordinances pertaining to vagrancy in public parks. Town Board

15.Discussion and decision regarding request by Town Manager to be excused from the Town Board meeting held on February 24, 2009. Town Manager

16.Town Manager Report.

17.Consent agenda items:

a. Action – approval of Town vouchers
b. Action – approval of Special Town Board meeting minutes of December 22, 2008
c. Action – approval of Town Board meeting minutes of January 13, 2009.
d. Action – approval of Town Board closed meeting of January 13, 2009.

18.Future Meetings/Workshops: Date, Time and Location.

19. Adjournment.


A quorum of Nye County Commissioners may be present at any Town Board meeting but they will not take any formal action.




Any member of the public who is disabled and requires accommodations or assistance at this meeting is requested to notify the Pahrump Town Office in writhing, or call 775-727-5107 prior to the meeting. Assisted listening devices are available at Town board meetings upon request.

 

[Iridium]

Sadly I will not be able to make this.. as I have to be at a clients house tomorrow night.. however..

This all came about because an older gentleman dropped his carry gun by accident (no one was hurt and the gun did not discharge) at the end of a meeting. I guess the new town manager freaked out that people were allowed to carry and decided to bring this up as an issue.

If they ban it at town events.. I dont plan on ever attending or volunteering at another one.

 

[gdcleanfun]

I'm incredulous if the new manager has never seen anyone open carry at a town meeting or event. I see people walking around town and into stores and other places all the time! It's hard to figure that just one goofy incident causes him to freak?! We need to educate him. Maybe you can talk your clients into accompanying you to the meeting first or after your meeting with them? :meeting: :yes4:

 

[maybejim]

Contact the NRA-ILA and GOA if it goes through. Likely State law preempts City laws and if the State says it's OK, the City can't overrule.

 

[gdcleanfun]

Contact the NRA-ILA and GOA if it goes through. Likely State law preempts City laws and if the State says it's OK, the City can't overrule.

Good thinking. Thanks! I'll send off an urgent email right now.

 

[gdcleanfun]

Reporting in...

Item #12 on the Agenda for the The Town of Pahrump's semi-monthly meeting was DROPPED from the agenda almost practically before the meeting got underway this evening. It will NOT be placed back on the agenda. The town's attorney conceded that the town has no standing to erect such an ordinance. We won one! Hooray!

 

[DarrellM5]

I was training at Front Sight this past weekend and got the impression that quite a few of the instructors were planning on attending the meeting carrying openly. Do you know if they were there? I'm not sure if they would wear their uniforms or not.

 

[gdcleanfun]

I was training at Front Sight this past weekend and got the impression that quite a few of the instructors were planning on attending the meeting carrying openly. Do you know if they were there? I'm not sure if they would wear their uniforms or not.

I don't know. I did see many groups but I wasn't really looking for that one. As well, there were so many people there that they opened up the back room lest the Fire Marshall shut the hall down or empty it out. There was standing room only and 4 or 5 deep in the back. I think there were more people open carrying than not, just my opinion. We left at about 7:30 or so.

 

[DarrellM5]

Awesome!!! Thanks for keeping us posted.

 

[gdcleanfun]

My pleasure! I'm doing the happy-dance tonight! Well, the happy sit anyway. Foot still hurts. *sigh*

 

[GabbyDP]

Very exciting! :happy:

 

[gdcleanfun]

Don't reinvent the wheel...

This is what I prepared to read last night at the Pahrump Town Meeting, but never got the chance. The town's lawyer said the same thing that I'm saying: the town has no standing to enact an ordinance to bar hand guns from town property, town sponsored events, or town buildings. The town cannot pass legislation that would supersede state law. I've done the research so no one has to reinvent the wheel. Feel free to modify it and use it anytime your Nevada county, town, or city, attempts a hand gun ban.

Mr. Town Manager, Members of the Board, Pahrumpians:

Everyone I know who carries a firearm for self-protection realizes how important it is for their alertness and vigilance about how to carry that firearm. They recognize, better than many unarmed citizens that they are responsible for their actions. They take that responsibility seriously. The fact that they carry a firearm to any given place does not mean that they believe that place to be a dangerous one. They also know that criminals do not observe “gun free zones” and if trouble comes they do not want criminals to be the only armed persons. When criminals know that some of the population may be armed at any time, well that helps to deter violence against ALL CITIZENS! You can help by not supporting laws that require citizens to be unarmed victims. (USCCA FORUM)

As of 2007, on a “1-is-good-to-a-10-is-bad scale” Pahrump’s violent crime rate was a 2 and the property crime rate was a 1. The US averages were 3 and 3. You can help us keep our crime rates low by supporting our Second Amendment rights. (Sperling’sBestPlaces.com)

Mr. Manager, you are attempting a politically expedient response to a headline-grabbing incident where no further incidents are foreseen. The issue that really needs to be addressed is one of FIREARM RETENTION. If someone’s firearm drops from their holster, that person needs a better retention device on their holster. But, you don’t need to ban firearms!

Are you aware that Texas State Representative Suzanna Gratiz-Hupp, who was caught in a Texas restaurant while watching a criminal shoot both her parents, testified before a gun control committee in Missouri that if she had been allowed to carry her firearm into the Luby’s eatery that she may well have been able to save innocent lives? No one wants that to happen here!

However, Nevada Revised Statutes, Chapter 202 et al., CRIMES AGAINST PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY, outline that we as citizens, given the proper permits, have the right to conceal carry firearms while on premises of public buildings. Only schools, child care facilities, and airports are exempted. Period. Nevada laws contain preemptive laws, meaning that you cannot override state laws.

As well, NRS Chapters 244 and 269 et al., COUNTIES: GOVERNMENT and UNINCORPORATED TOWNS, state that no county or town may infringe upon the rights and powers of the citizens of Nevada to possess their firearms. Nevada is an open-carry state. We may legally possess and carry our firearms openly on our persons. That cannot be preempted!

Approximately 20 some years ago, Florida found that unrestrictive firearm policies can coexist with low firearm homicide rates. We must learn from that! Ordinary Nevadans, men and women, can and do competently exercise their right of self defense with their right to carry. Again, if you must, lobby for better/active retention devices on holsters, but do not attempt to illegally legislate away our right to carry. We will appeal and we will win.

Thank you.

 

[seldomseen65]

just a note to express my opinion about last nights meeting at the Rudd center here in Pahrump ,Nevada, there were several different types of groups there and it was good to see some of the local deputy's there, but it was a great turn out for the town of Pahrump, and the fire dept. was there too,,and i know that the town manager must have his head buried in the sand this morning ,and he even admitted that he had put article 12 on the agenda , what does it take to admit to being stupid ????, well i can see that this town does need a good new town manager, and to check out the local laws of this here town. we had a good time at the meeting and said hi to some people that we knew,, all in all it was a good victory for the town of pahrump,, and we did see a lot of people carrying their side arms, both of us included ,,i like it when things come together for the good of the people of this town,,,nuff said, :thank_you2:

"fear the government ,,that fears your guns,, and your rights from the 2nd amendment "

 

[LVLouisCyphre]

It's true they cannot ban open carry, however they can ban concealed carry on city property per NRS 202.3673 as they are "public" buildings.

 

[Iridium]

Sadly I didn't get to go, had some clients to deal with here, but I did get a first hand report from a friend who went.. The info he gave me follows here..

Just got home from the town board meeting. Only stayed about 17 minutes. And that was 10 longer than needed. In the first 2 minutes after the pledge of allegiance, Nichole Shupp announced that item 12 on the agenda, the issue of carrying firearms in town buildings and on town property was being dropped from the agenda at the request of a gentleman on the right side desk that I could not see, but I believe was the town manager, Bill Kohberger. When asked if this was correct this gentleman spoke into a mike very softly and stated that yes, the item was being dropped from the agenda permanently, and then he added very,very softly, "On advice of Council".

He would not elaborate further.

One gentleman managed to make it to the citizens speak up podium and delivered a short, well thought out speech about our firearms rights, which met with very enthusiastic approval from those in attendance.

Ms. Shupp then announced, much to the displeasure of the packed to the rafters room, that no further discussion, speeches, statements, or questions would be allowed on this subject due to it's having been dropped from tonight's agenda. She did say that if everyone wanted to talk about it further, that someone could add the discussion of it to the next meeting's agenda and that it would be open for public comment at that time.

After that about half the crowd departed. But from the crowds response it was very apparent that had the issue made it to board review tonight, the entire crowd was there to provide opposition to it.

About fifty percent of the crowd was openly carrying, and I detected at least half of the remaining individuals carrying concealed.

We were watching this on our local message board here in Pahrump and that is where he made the post ( We actually have a "firearms" section.. )

Looks like we won one this time.. Firearms rights are pretty important out here, which is one of the reasons why I chose this town to live in :dance3:

 

[gdcleanfun]

Sadly I didn't get to go, had some clients to deal with here, but I did get a first hand report from a friend who went.. The info he gave me follows here..
...

We were watching this on our local message board here in Pahrump and that is where he made the post ( We actually have a "firearms" section.. )

Looks like we won one this time.. Firearms rights are pretty important out here, which is one of the reasons why I chose this town to live in :dance3:

Which message board is that? And there is a firearms section? I'm missing out! :help::sad::cray:

 

[gdcleanfun]

It's true they cannot ban open carry, however they can ban concealed carry on city property per NRS 202.3673 as they are "public" buildings.

We're not a city, merely a town. This was not a concealed carry item, rather the agenda read: "Discussion and decision regarding barring firearms on town owned property, in town owned building, and at town sponsored events. Town Manger." Per state law, we are not barred from carrying concealed on the town's public property with the exceptions of schools, child care facilities, and airports. See: NRS 202.3673 (Concealed Carry) Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty. 1. Except as otherwise provided in subsections 2 and 3, a permittee may carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of any public building.

 

[LVLouisCyphre]

We're not a city, merely a town. This was not a concealed carry item, rather the agenda read: "Discussion and decision regarding barring firearms on town owned property, in town owned building, and at town sponsored events. Town Manger." Per state law, we are not barred from carrying concealed on the town's public property with the exceptions of schools, child care facilities, and airports. See: NRS 202.3673 (Concealed Carry) Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty. 1. Except as otherwise provided in subsections 2 and 3, a permittee may carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of any public building.

Here's the entire section.

NRS 202.3673 Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty.

1. Except as otherwise provided in subsections 2 and 3, a permittee may carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of any public building.

2. A permittee shall not carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of a public building that is located on the property of a public airport.

3. A permittee shall not carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of:

(a) A public building that is located on the property of a public school or a child care facility or the property of the Nevada System of Higher Education, unless the permittee has obtained written permission to carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building pursuant to subparagraph (3) of paragraph (a) of subsection 3 of NRS 202.265.

(b) A public building that has a metal detector at each public entrance or a sign posted at each public entrance indicating that no firearms are allowed in the building, unless the permittee is not prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building pursuant to subsection 4.​

4. The provisions of paragraph (b) of subsection 3 do not prohibit:

(a) A permittee who is a judge from carrying a concealed firearm in the courthouse or courtroom in which he presides or from authorizing a permittee to carry a concealed firearm while in the courtroom of the judge and while traveling to and from the courtroom of the judge.

(b) A permittee who is a prosecuting attorney of an agency or political subdivision of the United States or of this State from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of a public building.

(c) A permittee who is employed in the public building from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building.

(d) A permittee from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building if the permittee has received written permission from the person in control of the public building to carry a concealed firearm while the permittee is on the premises of the public building.
​

5. A person who violates subsection 2 or 3 is guilty of a misdemeanor.

6. As used in this section:

(a) “Child care facility” has the meaning ascribed to it in paragraph (a) of subsection 5 of NRS 202.265.

(b) “Public building” means any building or office space occupied by:

(1) Any component of the Nevada System of Higher Education and used for any purpose related to the System; or

(2) The Federal Government, the State of Nevada or any county, city, school district or other political subdivision of the State of Nevada and used for any public purpose.
If only part of the building is occupied by an entity described in this subsection, the term means only that portion of the building which is so occupied.​

(Added to NRS by 1995, 2725; A 1997, 63; 1999, 2767; 2007, 1914).​

​

Last time I checked, a town was a political subdivision of Nevada. So yes, the town of Pahrump can bar concealed carry per NRS 202.3673 but not open carry in town buildings. It's one of those idiosyncrasies of NV State firearms law pertaining to open vs. concealed carry.

 

[gdcleanfun]

Here's the entire section.

Last time I checked, a town was a political subdivision of Nevada. So yes, the town of Pahrump can bar concealed carry per NRS 202.3673 but not open carry in town buildings. It's one of those idiosyncrasies of NV State firearms law pertaining to open vs. concealed carry.

Interesting. I read it just the opposite that you do, but that's okay because last night the town's lawyer stated that the town has no standing to bar carry at all and I'm not going to argue with him. :nono: :lol:

 

[LVLouisCyphre]

Interesting. I read it just the opposite that you do, but that's okay because the town's lawyer last night agreed that the town has no standing to bar carry at all and I'm not going to argue with him. :lol:

I wouldn't either. Besides you have enough local support that they wouldn't post anyway with everyone carrying concealed and open during the meeting anyway. However a savvy city attorney and sheriff could start popping people for illegal CCW if they were carrying in a posted town building. That would be one way to start a mass revocation campaign of NV CFPs.