*** GrassRoots Action Alert ***


Red Hat

New member
I've been under the weather or a few days and just checked my email. I called my senators and they are in session now. I'm not sure they are going to bring this up today or not. Please call your senator anyway.


It is crunch time for H. 3212, the concealed weapon permit (CWP) recognition/reciprocity bill that has been awaiting Senate action since March 26, 2008, when the House refused to concur with the Senate amendment just as GrassRoots GunRights asked them to refuse to do.

The Senate version of H. 3212 is completely unacceptable to gun owners. GrassRoots GunRights provided a detailed analysis of the Senate amendment to H. 3212 to every member of the House in a letter dated March 24, 2008. The GrassRoots analysis - which is repeated below - exposes exactly why the Senate amendment would make South Carolina CWP law worse than existing law. Interestingly, the Senate amendment would change the law so drastically that South Carolina could not even get reciprocity with itself! The Senate version of H. 3212 should be opposed by all pro gun rights supporters!

Multiple independent practicing pro gun rights attorneys have read the GrassRoots analysis of the Senate version of H. 3212, and all have agreed the GrassRoots analysis is legally sound (their letters of agreement can be found on the GrassRoots web site). Not a single independent practicing pro gun rights attorney has found fault with the GrassRoots analysis of H. 3212.

Call your senator and tell them "GrassRoots GunRights speaks for me on H. 3212!" Use the Senate switchboard (803) 212-6200, or use the individual office numbers listed here. Current GrassRoots Action Alert
 

FN1910

New member
From my understanding the Senate version of H 3212 has passed both the House and Senate and is being sent to the Govenor. I am not sure of the exact procedures and terms. I suspect that SLED will follow through with their promises on this because it is the version they wanted and if they don't in the next session they won't have a leg to stand on trying to fight the full recognition version. I expect the Govenor to sign it but if he doesn't I doubt that they will override his veto.

For reference:

Valid out-of-state permits to carry concealable weapons held by a resident of a reciprocal state must be honored by this State, provided, that the reciprocal state requires an applicant to successfully pass a criminal background check and a course in firearm training and safety. A resident of a reciprocal state carrying a concealable weapon in South Carolina is subject to and must abide by the laws of South Carolina regarding concealable weapons. SLED shall maintain and publish a list of those states as the states with which South Carolina has reciprocity.
 

Red Hat

New member
It passed the House!

The House passed the Senate version of the bill today. However reading the final version it doesn't look ilke they changed anything. Read the 06/06/08 bill here. Link Removed


SECTION 1. Section 23-31-215(N) of the 1976 Code, as last amended by Act 347 of 2006, is further amended to read:

"(N) Valid out-of-state permits to carry concealable weapons held by a resident of a reciprocal state must be honored by this State, provided, that the reciprocal state requires an applicant to successfully pass a criminal background check and a course in firearm training and safety. A resident of a reciprocal state carrying a concealable weapon in South Carolina is subject to and must abide by the laws of South Carolina regarding concealable weapons. SLED Line struck out shall make a determination as to those states which have permit issuance standards equal to or greater than the standards contained in this article and end of struck out line shall maintain and publish a list of those states as the states with which South Carolina has reciprocity."


I hope this is not their final version and someone put up the wrong one. We'll see in a day or so.
 

Red Hat

New member
The Senate bill didn't have this in it.
reciprocal state must be honored by this State, provided, that the reciprocal state requires an applicant to successfully pass a criminal background check and a course in firearm training and safety.
They were wanting to allow all states with permits to be reciprocal with SC. That was what the back and fourth was about. That means FL and GA still won't be on the list! Other than taking the decision out of the hands of SLED I don't see where we have gained anything. Plus it doesn't say who makes the decision now just that SLED must maintain the reciprocal list.
 
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FN1910

New member
The Senate bill didn't have this in it. They were wanting to allow all states with permits to be reciprocal with SC. That was what the back and fourth was about. That means FL and GA still won't be on the list! Other than taking the decision out of the hands of SLED I don't see where we have gained anything. Plus it doesn't say who makes the decision now just that SLED must maintain the reciprocal list.

You mean the House version did not have that in it. The one that was passed was the Senate version that was originally passed byt the Senate on March 20 but then rejected by the house. SLED says that this version will add FL, CO, NE, NV and MN to th list of states that will recognize SC permits and add Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Kentucky, Maine, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Utah, Virginia and Wyoming to the list of states that SC will honor.

The problem with the hose bill was that it removed reciprocity completely from the statutes. If a state required a reciprocal agreement SC could not grant it. The House version was great for other states but not for SC residents.
 
As I read the above post that means we will recognize Florida's permit.... this is a good thing and one of my most wanted. I've got several friends in Florida who would like to carry in S.C.

Now for the big question.... does this mean just resident permits or would a Florida non resident also be accepted?

I went back up and re-read it and see it specifically says a resident of the state....
 
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FN1910

New member
My understanding is that only resident permits just like now. My feeling is that FL and GA were the two main states that most were interested in and the house wanted full recognition so that GA would be included. Many of the arguments against that version in the Senate were directed at GA more than any other state. New Hampshire is happy with this version and was probably behind it.
 

Red Hat

New member
You mean the House version did not have that in it. The one that was passed was the Senate version that was originally passed byt the Senate on March 20 but then rejected by the house. SLED says that this version will add FL, CO, NE, NV and MN to th list of states that will recognize SC permits and add Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Kentucky, Maine, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Utah, Virginia and Wyoming to the list of states that SC will honor.

The problem with the hose bill was that it removed reciprocity completely from the statutes. If a state required a reciprocal agreement SC could not grant it. The House version was great for other states but not for SC residents.
You are correct, I got turned around when I wrote that. Since Fl and GA don't have a class requirement for their permits they will not be given reciprocity with SC. That requirement is still in there.
 

FN1910

New member
I thought that FL did have a training class requirement so would be added. I have heard several reasons given for SC and FL not having reciprocity already but don't know if any or all are the actual reason:

Reasons I have heard:

1. FL did not require someone to actually shoot a gun. This has been corrected that now one shot is required.
2. FL did not have a 24/7 statewide data base of all CWP holders available. Have no real idea on this.
3. FL does not expressly forbid felons from having a CWP in state law. I don't know about this one but sounds weird although it fits in with some other rumors being passed around by the Brady Bunch.

I know GA does not have a class requirement and I don't know what kind of background check GA requires so no go on GA.
 

FN1910

New member
My understanding is the requirements under the act is that they state only require a course of some kind in firearm training and sefety, not a CCW specific course. I would think that a NRA pistol class and certainly NRA Certified Instructor class would certainly suffice. If a letter from a gun club certifying that they have met the requirements of the club for firearm training and safety I suppose that may meet the standards.

applicant to successfully pass a criminal background check and a course in firearm training and safety
 
Throwing aside the argument that we should not have to have the state's approval in the first place... I can see how GA is a problem... no training at all. As for Florida, I'm really confused on that... I have a Florida permit and it was just as hard if not harder to get than the S.C. permit. In fact the state of Florida bounced my application back twice... the first time I had to resubmit finger print cards.... to do this I 'elected' to go to Tallahasse and have their LEO do it.... the second time they required a certified / notorized copy of a conviction from 1978 stating the result of same and if it was a felony or not. Go figure on this since the only reason they even knew about it was because I put it on the application and pointed out I already had a CWP from S.C.... That was an afternoon at Pickens county court house to get that.

If we get reciprocity with Florida (even if it is just residents) that wouold be a good thing.... next step would be to kick out the resident part...

It seems to me the only way to 'fix' this permit recognition problem is to pick away at it... one little change at a time. Kind of the same way the anti-gun folks try to do with the law. Pick Pick Pick.... seems how our laws and politicians work...
 

FN1910

New member
H 3212 was signed by the Govenor last night so the new law is effective immediately. I don't know what that means but if you are from FL, VA or a few other states you can now carry in SC but may have to head to court to prove you are innocent.

The law does not require a reciprocity agreement but we will see what SLED says.
 

Red Hat

New member
H 3212 was signed by the Govenor last night so the new law is effective immediately. I don't know what that means but if you are from FL, VA or a few other states you can now carry in SC but may have to head to court to prove you are innocent.

The law does not require a reciprocity agreement but we will see what SLED says.
That's a problem that I see. SLED has no say in reciprocity now and the bll doesn't say who does.
 

FN1910

New member
That's a problem that I see. SLED has no say in reciprocity now and the bll doesn't say who does.

You are correct on that no one seems to be in charge so I guess it will be left up to the courts. However it does say that SLED shall publish the list of states that comply so.......
 
So that would mean the Atorney General needs to tell Sled who meets the requirements. At least that's how it works in other states.

So, what is Grass Roots doing to clear this up as quick as possible.
 

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