Grass Roots Gun Rights' Board of Directors LOSES Law Suit!


hp-hobo

New member
Stuffed Suits - Grass Roots Gun Rights' Board of Directors LOSES Law Suit!


GrassRoots Gun Rights' board of directors has lost a lawsuit filed by Ed Looney and Ed Lown to bring the organization back into compliance with South Carolina state law governing their incorporation. The current "board members for life" have already filed an intent to appeal but unless they can find a judge who will rule in a way diametrically opposed to the law, they don't have a chance. The judge has ordered the attempt to reincorporate (so as to avoid the lawsuit through a mail-in ballot sent to the membership) null and void. He has also ordered the board to turn over the requested information.

More information will be posted as it is made available.
This is an update to the following articles:

http://stuffedsuits.com/news/sc-politics/379-grassroots-gun-rights-the-full-story-

http://stuffedsuits.com/news/stating-the-obvious/42-stating-the-obvious/353-grassroots-in-court
 

cawpin

New member
First I've heard of it...

This is the first I've heard of this issue but, from what I've just read, it sounds like they should have lost just as they did because they were not following the law. If you're going to incorporate you have to follow the laws you are covered under.
 

FN1910

New member
From everything I have read and mostly it was from GRGR directors themselves I don't know of any other way the judge could have ruled. This is not to say that I was in favor of Mr. Looney's lawsuit but to me the directors got caught making up the rules as they went along and then tried to cover it up with more screwed up shenanigans. The quotation "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" very much applies here as these men, the directors, have done many good things for our cause and are to be commended for that. To me they lost sight of it being a "Grass Roots" effort and made it their own cause,

I absolutely hope that GRGR will survive and become stronger because of this but there are a lot of fences to mend and a lot of personal hard feelings to get over before that can happen. If you find out more please keep us informed.
 

Blueridge

New member
So, if the organization was illegally operating as a nonprofit corporation, does the board of directors now owe back taxes?
 

hp-hobo

New member
I am not a lawyer, nor have I ever played one on TV. However, in my opinion they may be liable for a lot of things. Back taxes could certainly be one of them. Probably court costs. Maybe the cost of their last minute vote to cover their behinds as well, which by my estimation cost about $4-5k for materials, printing and mailing. I also wonder if criminal charges could be in their future. Only time will tell.

The ironic thing as I see it, is if they had just held elections as some of us have asked about for years, they'd probably still hold their positions, we wouldn't be having this conversation and GRGR would still be grinding along with minimal membership and dwindling relevance with the SC legislature.

Hopefully after this wake up call, GRGR can come back as a strong and vital organization. Unfortunately I think at this point the "brand" may be damaged beyond repair.
 

Foxhound

New member
Does it strike anyone else that they almost seem to be like if they don't admit they are in a problem it will simply go away ?
 

hp-hobo

New member
Does it strike anyone else that they almost seem to be like if they don't admit they are in a problem it will simply go away ?
Yes. It's called denial. A subject I've personally brought up with "GRGR" leadership several times over the last few years. I just hate to see the organization suffer because of the ego and arrogance of a select few, aided by the members who are too blind to see that they've been lied to all this time.
 

G50AE

Well-known member
Yes. It's called denial.

And it's De River in De Nation of Egypt. :sarcastic: If you properly set up corprate entites and pay the proper taxes and fees as the case may be, you shouldn't run into issues like this.

Some one else needs to pick up the ball that was dropped here. Fumble-itis this bad should get anyone benched.
 

Swamp Fox

New member
In the meantime, this seems like a good place to organize and discuss issues to be individually followed up with our own representatives.

If we can just find away to get restaurant carry fixed.
 

hp-hobo

New member
There are a lot of "things" that need to be fixed regarding South Carolina firearms laws. According to people who are a lot smarter than I am, in other words almost everyone, South Carolina has the most restrictive gun laws in the Southeast and in some cases the most restrictive in the country (no OC and melting point laws for example). I think that getting these laws changed would be fairly easy if prioritized and worked one at at time. I also think we'd have better luck as a group (activist, concerned, freedom loving gun owners) if we had a less adversarial relationship with our lawmakers. I agree in no compromise, but we don't have to be nasty about things. Speaking of which.

Dr Robert Butler. I think he had the distinction of being GRGR's most valuable single asset. His legal mind when applied to gun laws (obviously not corporate laws) was clear thinking and possibly even brilliant. On the other side of that coin was his ability to piss off legislators and members alike with his "my way or the highway" mindset. Because of this he was also GRGR's greatest liability. If we could get him to tone down his rhetoric and work only legal issues instead of also running an organization, I know we could make headway at the statehouse.

But that's just me. I'd like to hear what others have to say on the subject. In my opinion we need to get something going before our cause loses any momentum it once had.

Please discuss. (I always wanted to say that.)
 

FN1910

New member
I think you are on the right track but I would like to make some comments. As far as restrictive gun laws other than OC "in public" SC has some of the most liberal laws in the nation. Now some base all their complaints on the OC restriction and it is a legitimate complaint but other than that and the resident permit issue I don't know of any state less restrictive. The melting point issue is almost a moot point as far as I can determine as any decent gun will pass that test.

About Mr. Butler. I totally agree that he was one of our greatest assets. However in my opinion he started to over-analyze every proposal to get it into his wording rather than even look at anything proposed by anyone else. I think you are absolutely correct that his MWOTHW mindset became an obsession with hm and his hatred and, in my opinion, jealousy of the NRA, being sure to try and get the last word in. Rather than working with anyone else he started to work against anyone who did not fall into lock step with him.

There is a difference in disagreeing with a legislaturer and turning them into an enemy, especially one with control and power. The "assination" of Rep. Viers was totally uncalled for in my opinion and killed any chance of the bill moving on or anyone else taking it up any time soon. I find in very telling how many legislatures were considered supporters at one time are now are the enemy and woring against gun-rights according to some people. As has been said that politics makes for strange bedfellows and if one is going to be successful in the long run of politics you will have to compromise along the way in the short term. MWOTHW will put you in the highway of politics leading away from the capital.
 

Blueridge

New member
Say, HP:
You know there is no "GRGR".
The corporation is registered as "Grass Roots of South Carolina, Inc".
See Link Removed
So, if you wanted to incorporate as Grass Roots Gun Rights, you could for a couple of hundred bucks.
 

FN1910

New member
I guess grass and guns don't mix.

If anyone remembers the Jimmy Carter who ran the "businesses" at Pee Dee, SC you may remember how he was caught red handed in the middle of his marijuana field along with all kinds of other evidence but still managed to beat the rap. I saw him one night and asked where he had been. He said that he had just carried his lawn mower to his girlfriend's house. He said he might as well give it to her since they wouldn't let him grow grass anymore.
 

Swamp Fox

New member
As far as restrictive gun laws other than OC "in public" SC has some of the most liberal laws in the nation.

I'm glad you pointed that out. I believe that we have had a few "big" gun bills to get off track and ultimately butchered to the point not worth passing. Frankly, I think we should focus on one issue each year...first being restaurant carry. Just tack some language as an amendment on some must pass legislation and its done. That is how most of are rights have been usurped in the past. Take one small step at a time and eventually we will get there-turn the tables on them.
SF
 

hp-hobo

New member
Wow! If you guys think we have liberal gun laws in South Carolina, you're either in denial or delusional. Here are some SC laws that infringe on our right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed by both the United States and South Carolina Constitutions. The list includes but is not limited to;

- No open carry except in extremely limited circumstance, mostly on private property. SC is one of only 7 states (plus DC) without public OC.
- SC requires a government permission slip to lawfully conceal carry.
- And to get that CWP you have to submit to government mandated training.
- No carry at all for those under 21.
- No campus carry.
- No carry in establishments that serve alcohol.
- No carry in government buildings.
- No "parking lot" law.
- Vehicle carry only allowed in specific locations.
- Melting point laws that discriminate against lower income individuals.
- Regulations, licensing and equipment requirements above and beyond what is required by federal law.

Even our friends at the Brady Bunch seem to agree. While they call our gun laws lax (they call every state's gun laws lax), according to their 2010 state guns laws ratings, there are 30 states with less strict gun laws than South Carolina. That means there are only 19 states with more strict gun laws than SC. That puts us firmly in the top 50% of strictest state gun laws in the US.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare...0_Brady_Campaign_State_Scorecard_Rankings.pdf

The gun owners of South Carolina have a lot of work to do. But just like any other problem, we first have to admit to ourselves that the problem exists. And I'm not sure some of us on this forum have gotten to that point yet. Think about it.
 

Swamp Fox

New member
If OC and cc permits are your litmus test, I guess there really is no discussion. Not that I agree with the status quo, but look where we once were and where we are. What you hope for is what once was. Our rights were GRADUALLY usurped and we are on the path of GRADUALLY restoring them, with progress made. It will take continued strategy and perseverance.

I still say your "restrictive" analysis is incorrect. I've reviewed your list above and it is flawed.

Look at the quirks of neighboring states. I have.
 

hp-hobo

New member
My list above is exactly accurate. If it wasn't, you would have identified which items were incorrect.
 

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