Graduation gift for daughter
- Thread starter mdorsett
- Start date
Phillip Gain
New member
First off - check your state and federal laws. I know for certain that someone under 21 cannot purchase a handgun under federal law...but it is unclear to me whether the same law prohibits possession.
With that said, once you've determined that no laws are being broken, I recommend the "try before you buy" approach. I'd maybe start with some compact 1911 single-action pistols, since that is what the Ruger 22/45 is designed to mimic.
But it could also be argued that, for self defense, something along the lines of a Glock or Smith&Wesson M&P series would be better. (double action only, safety on trigger, one action to firing.) Good value for money with these as well. You can get a Glock or M&P in the $400-$500 range in a variety of calibers all day...while the 1911 pistols are mostly available in .45 and good ones are $800 and up.
Another possibility would be a double-action-only revolver. Smith&Wesson has some good ones, as does Charter Arms. Both are worth checking into.
Obviously it all comes down to what the young lady is the most comfortable with. But those suggestions ought to at least get you started!
With that said, once you've determined that no laws are being broken, I recommend the "try before you buy" approach. I'd maybe start with some compact 1911 single-action pistols, since that is what the Ruger 22/45 is designed to mimic.
But it could also be argued that, for self defense, something along the lines of a Glock or Smith&Wesson M&P series would be better. (double action only, safety on trigger, one action to firing.) Good value for money with these as well. You can get a Glock or M&P in the $400-$500 range in a variety of calibers all day...while the 1911 pistols are mostly available in .45 and good ones are $800 and up.
Another possibility would be a double-action-only revolver. Smith&Wesson has some good ones, as does Charter Arms. Both are worth checking into.
Obviously it all comes down to what the young lady is the most comfortable with. But those suggestions ought to at least get you started!
trophyhunter
New member
Even though they are a lower end Handgun Charter Arms makes some really nice Handguns, Aimed towards the ladies
My wife ended up getting the Para Hawg .45 ACP It fits her smaller hands like a glove. Because of the Quaiity Para puts into, it's Manufacturing of it's Handguns it has Low Recoil. As others have Stated take her to an Gun Shop, and let her handle Several different handguns until she finds one that fits her hands.
She will know when she has the right Handgun for her. By the way Great Graduation Gift. Good Luck, Happy Shooting
My wife ended up getting the Para Hawg .45 ACP It fits her smaller hands like a glove. Because of the Quaiity Para puts into, it's Manufacturing of it's Handguns it has Low Recoil. As others have Stated take her to an Gun Shop, and let her handle Several different handguns until she finds one that fits her hands.
She will know when she has the right Handgun for her. By the way Great Graduation Gift. Good Luck, Happy Shooting
eccarryguy
New member
As stated above. Let her shoot and handle as many guns as possible. My wife LOVES the shiny 1911's, but can't stand to shoot my 3" 1911 (she had carpal tunnel surgery a few years ago). She has no issues with a standard A1, but who wants to carry that concealed? After trying over 50 handguns, we found that the M&P had a perfect natural point of aim (she picked up the gun, brought it to firing position, and the sights were aligned). We tried this with a compact model and point of aim was the same. She now has a S&W M&P 40C (compact) and loves it!
caseyisajim
New member
I say go for a single-stack, 9mm, or .380 pistol. A .380 is nice because it is so small and easy to conceal in a purse, and wouldn't be too much of a bother - in other words, it wouldn't force her to make any life-altering lifestyle changes. Plus, girls usually like light-weight & small (i.e. cute) things - drives me nuts, but oh well.
My suggestions:
1) 9mm: Ruger LC9
a) Has great reviews
b) 9mm ammo is the cheapest
2) .380: Ruger LCP or Taurus TCP
a) Both have great reviews and are easy to conceal
b) The Taurus comes in Pink! 2-TI738039BSSP - Taurus 738 TCP Semi Automatic Handgun .380 ACP 3.3" Barrel 6 Rounds Pink Polymer Frame Black Stainless Steel Finish
My suggestions:
1) 9mm: Ruger LC9
a) Has great reviews
b) 9mm ammo is the cheapest
2) .380: Ruger LCP or Taurus TCP
a) Both have great reviews and are easy to conceal
b) The Taurus comes in Pink! 2-TI738039BSSP - Taurus 738 TCP Semi Automatic Handgun .380 ACP 3.3" Barrel 6 Rounds Pink Polymer Frame Black Stainless Steel Finish
golddigger14s
SFC At Fort Lewis, WA
I checked the OC map, and it states 18 and over can OC with permit. Link Removed
A lot of people think women should have a small gun, but sometimes that backfires. A full size gun handles recoil a lot better. And kudos to any parent getting their kid a gun for graduation. Under 21 you can possess or use a handgun, but not buy a hand gun from an FFL dealer. IANAL so check locally before you beat me up if I am wrong on anything I say. My 14 year old son can't carry a HG at any time, but I can let him rip it up at the range with my supervision. The Ruger 22/45 is a beauty to start with. Start slow, my son started out with a .22 rifle, an now shoots my 9mm, AK-47, and 12 GA. The key is to not rush it. I'm not sure if they have it in your area, but check to see if they have the NRA "Women on Target" program or something similar. Good luck!
A lot of people think women should have a small gun, but sometimes that backfires. A full size gun handles recoil a lot better. And kudos to any parent getting their kid a gun for graduation. Under 21 you can possess or use a handgun, but not buy a hand gun from an FFL dealer. IANAL so check locally before you beat me up if I am wrong on anything I say. My 14 year old son can't carry a HG at any time, but I can let him rip it up at the range with my supervision. The Ruger 22/45 is a beauty to start with. Start slow, my son started out with a .22 rifle, an now shoots my 9mm, AK-47, and 12 GA. The key is to not rush it. I'm not sure if they have it in your area, but check to see if they have the NRA "Women on Target" program or something similar. Good luck!
Shouldn't an "instructor" know such basic information?
1. There is no Federal law that prohibits a person under 21 from purchasing a handgun. 18 USC 922(x) prohibits the sale, delivery, or otherwise transfering of a handgun to a person under the age of 18. 18 USC 922(b) prohibits an FFL from transferring a handgun to a person under 21.
2. 18 USC 922(x) prohibits the possession of handgun by a person under the age of 18 (with exceptions).
3. State law may be more restrictive than Federal law.
The three biggest sources of misinformation regarding firearms laws tend to be police officers, gun store personnel, and CCW instructors.
Let her pick out the gun that feels the best to her in her hands and that she can comfortably operate the slide, if an automatic.
Phillip Gain
New member
I really do not appreciate the rude use of quotation marks around the word "instructor" as if to imply that I am somehow not a "real" instructor. I would expect more polite behavior from an officer and "gentleman."
AS AN INSTRUCTOR...you are correct, I did not know that information off the top of my head. I am over the age of 21. All my students so far have been over the age of 21. So it is not a question I deal with on a frequent basis.
I tried to read 18 USC 922. It is lengthy. And the phrasing is legal gobbledygook. Since I am NOT an attorney, I turned to a secondary (but likely reliable) source for interpretation. According to NRA-ILA.org:
The phrasing of the NRA-ILA's interpretation gave me pause: "Persons less than 21 years of age FOR THE PURCHASE of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle." As if perhaps to suggest that the restriction applied to purchase only, and not to possession, receipt, shipment, or transportation.
Since it was late at night, and I really didn't want to bother my attorney for an interpretation of Federal law - instead I opted to alert the original poster to the fact that he MIGHT be in violation of Federal law by giving a handgun to his daughter, if she is under 21.
AS AN INSTRUCTOR, and without giving legal advice (since again, I am not an attorney), I performed my due diligence in alerting the poster in this manner, and encouraged him to do the research on his own.
Since you pointed it out: 18 USC 922(x) spells things out in a lot more detail. But with those exceptions, especially the part about "exceptions with written parental consent, except under certain other circumstances," there could be a LOT of devils hidden in those details.
So yes. Perhaps I could stand a refresher on 18 USC 922. That doesn't make me a "fake" or "bad" instructor. I'm not perfect, but I take my responsibility VERY seriously, even when just answering forum posts.
You forgot to mention that the ONLY true source should be a 'NavyLCDR'.
You should really change your username to Richard Cranium.
You must really hold yourself in high regard for all the rude comments you to tend to make. You are the definition of 'know it all'.
I have a hard time really believeing you are a "real' Navy LCDR. Are you sure that you are not just a Sea Scout or that your daddy is the one in the 'real' Navy?
I surely don't remember having all this time to post, any time of the day, when I was in the Navy. I wonder what your upper chain would have to say about this.
Why don't you get off your high horse and answer questions that you some input and stop trying to belittle others on this forum.
Grow up!
KK
What a great graduation gift.
I am female, own a Ruger LC9 and it is my EDC. It is small enough for concealment, doesn't have bad recoil for such a small gun, and at 9mm, I feel it's sufficient for self-defense. I am going to soon sell my XD-40 SC and my husband is going to transfer his Beretta Px4 Storm (.40 cal) to me for my home defense gun. I was brand new to shooting when I got the XD and while it is absolutely a FINE gun and shoots incredibly accurately, the recoil is enough to give me a sore wrist after 50-100 rounds at the range. The rotating barrel of the larger Px4 makes for what seems like almost no recoil. I mention this only to support the notion that I'm a believer now that a bigger gun even for a smaller person is often the better choice.
I know you're getting her only one gun. Maybe the way to choose between, say, the 2 I mentioned would be to determine whether it's mostly for cc or OC or home defense.
I am female, own a Ruger LC9 and it is my EDC. It is small enough for concealment, doesn't have bad recoil for such a small gun, and at 9mm, I feel it's sufficient for self-defense. I am going to soon sell my XD-40 SC and my husband is going to transfer his Beretta Px4 Storm (.40 cal) to me for my home defense gun. I was brand new to shooting when I got the XD and while it is absolutely a FINE gun and shoots incredibly accurately, the recoil is enough to give me a sore wrist after 50-100 rounds at the range. The rotating barrel of the larger Px4 makes for what seems like almost no recoil. I mention this only to support the notion that I'm a believer now that a bigger gun even for a smaller person is often the better choice.
I know you're getting her only one gun. Maybe the way to choose between, say, the 2 I mentioned would be to determine whether it's mostly for cc or OC or home defense.
Please notice, however, that 18 USC 922 (x) applies only to persons under the age of 18.
agrippakc
New member
I wouldn't buy her one to "own" but rather one to use at the range. In the end, when she grows up a bit, "give" it to her for her 21st. I live on a state line between ks and mo. Over in kansas city , mo they passed a law concerning youth being posession of a gun. Iys night and day here with 2 states many counties and lots of cities its tough to know what you can and cant do sometimes from block to block. Lol
Phillip Gain
New member
All right. So after some review - I will concede that NavyLCDR's information is spot-on.
However - while I was unsure of whether Federal law prohibited possession by persons under 21, I was NOT WRONG about what I said in my original post. It's a matter of semantics. Federal law prohibits an FFL from transferring a handgun to someone under the age of 21. (Which IN EFFECT prevents persons under 21 from purchasing a firearm, except through a private transaction.)
I also concede that "juvenile" as defined in 18 USC 922(x.) means "persons under the age of 18."
Federal law does not appear to prohibit possession by a person under 21. And a VERY QUICK look at Indiana law seems to indicate that concealed carry permits may be issued to persons 18 years of age or older. Again, I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY, so this is not to be construed as legal advice.
In any case - there you have it. I stand by my assertion that, while my information was not PERFECTLY accurate, it cannot be considered "misinformation," because following my advice to "check Federal and state laws to make sure you're not in violation" would not have gotten the OP in trouble. I erred, but on the side of caution.
However - while I was unsure of whether Federal law prohibited possession by persons under 21, I was NOT WRONG about what I said in my original post. It's a matter of semantics. Federal law prohibits an FFL from transferring a handgun to someone under the age of 21. (Which IN EFFECT prevents persons under 21 from purchasing a firearm, except through a private transaction.)
I also concede that "juvenile" as defined in 18 USC 922(x.) means "persons under the age of 18."
Federal law does not appear to prohibit possession by a person under 21. And a VERY QUICK look at Indiana law seems to indicate that concealed carry permits may be issued to persons 18 years of age or older. Again, I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY, so this is not to be construed as legal advice.
In any case - there you have it. I stand by my assertion that, while my information was not PERFECTLY accurate, it cannot be considered "misinformation," because following my advice to "check Federal and state laws to make sure you're not in violation" would not have gotten the OP in trouble. I erred, but on the side of caution.
Unfortunately, erring on the side of caution, especially by those in the field who should have more accurate knowledge than the average Joe Citizen, is how we end up with our rights being eroded away. First, it keeps people from exercising rights which they might desire to exercise because someone gave them information erring on the side of caution rather than what the actual statute says. Second, if people believe an action is already illegal, such as purchasing a handgun at the age of 18, when a more restrictive piece of legislation is introduced (such as raising the purchasing or carrying age limit of handguns to 21), people will not be as likely to oppose such law if they believe the action was illegal already.
The law is about the exact meaning of words. "Technicalities" and "semantics" are very important in law, and often mean the difference between innocence and guilt.
Thank you for taking the time to do the research and providing us with confirmation as to what the actual law is.
Holy crap man, you're like a rabid dog. If you're not screwing with someone and making sure you 'set them straight', you're not happy!
KK
KK
Nope. Just explaining where my point of view comes from. It seems like the words,
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,"
are more important to some people than to others.
tuts40
New member
Ok, zip up and put the rulers away. I think you left the tracks, both of you, in regard to the OP. Here it is:
I agree with those who stated to let her shoot a few and see what she likes. If not for CCW, size does not become an issue. If it is for CCW, smaller is easier to hide but the trade off is slower follow up shots due to recoil and the time needed to get back on target.
Some say 9mm would be minimum caliber to consider while others feel .380 will work. I myself believe as I was taught in that "any gun will do if you will do".
I agree with those who stated to let her shoot a few and see what she likes. If not for CCW, size does not become an issue. If it is for CCW, smaller is easier to hide but the trade off is slower follow up shots due to recoil and the time needed to get back on target.
Some say 9mm would be minimum caliber to consider while others feel .380 will work. I myself believe as I was taught in that "any gun will do if you will do".
